Shohei Ohtani Has New UCL Damage

[Tank]

15 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I've formed an opinion based on 5% of the information available.  Even if more info comes about, I don't care.  The earth is flat.  

so i see you've been to texas. cool.

[tdawg87]

Guys I have a genyious idea.

We trade Trout and absolutely rob a team of their farm system.

Then we sign him when he is a free agent. 

This is....Billy Eppler has an easy job.

[WeatherWonk]

I have to disagree, Homebrewer, with a couple things.........

-Arte is far from a cheap owner. He's simply gotten the least from his signings and trades for big salaries;  possibly the least in the history of professional sports. No need to revisit them here;  we all know them by heart. He also signed Trout to what I believe, at the time, was the 1st or 2nd largest buy-out of arb-eligible years in the history of baseball. Kershaw's might have been bigger. He's been willing to spend.

-I believe the Angels WILL trade Trout when they realize that he will not re-sign with them. Despite what Eppler said, yesterday, at the Ohtani news conference, he isn't that stupid. Simply getting the return on a qualifying offer will not be enough. Heck, the organization would be subject to MORE ridicule if they simply let Trout walk, than if they traded him in 2019. And he could be traded in 2019, especially if the Angels are mediocre-to-bad, like this year. Sadly, the death of his brother in law also probably plays into Trout signing on, somewhere closer to home. When I read Trout's promise to always take care of his sister, I read Phillies or Yankees, all the way. 

-The AL West is NOT a weak division. But, barring some REALLY significant moves this winter or next, third or fourth place looks likely for 2019-2020. Tick-tick-tick..............

So, whatever became of that investigation by MLB into whomever leaked the info about Ohtani's arm problems and getting the stem-cell/platelet-rich/whatever injection it was? That made the Angels look rather foolish with the signing and PR campaign of this supposed two-way star. Looks like that should have been listened to. Instead, the Angels "guaranteed" Ohtani that he would be used as a two way player, even though they apparently knew he had damage. Now, TJ surgery will likely force him to actually miss action as a hitter, too. 

Quite the 20 million dollar gamble. No one pays that kind of posting fee for anything but a pitcher. Then, there was the 2.3 million international bonus pool money. And how long does a pitcher take to regain his form AFTER the surgery. Oh sure, they return in 12-18 months. But almost never as the same pitcher. Will he now be pitching every 7th to 8th day? 

Arte is Arte-ed again. 

[WeatherWonk]

29 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

 

If you are contemplating on trading someone like Trout, your franchise is a loser and you might as well trade everything else of value and suck for the next 4-5 years hoping - HOPING - you get in a situation like the Cubs or Astros but that's not guaranteed. 

If an organization is stupid enough to NOT consider trading Trout, then they will suck for a lot longer than 4-5 years. That's terminal brain disorder. Time for a decapitation.

[mulwin444]

4 minutes ago, WeatherWonk said:

I have to disagree, Homebrewer, with a couple things.........

-Arte is far from a cheap owner. He's simply gotten the least from his signings and trades for big salaries;  possibly the least in the history of professional sports. No need to revisit them here;  we all know them by heart. He also signed Trout to what I believe, at the time, was the 1st or 2nd largest buy-out of arb-eligible years in the history of baseball. Kershaw's might have been bigger. He's been willing to spend.

-I believe the Angels WILL trade Trout when they realize that he will not re-sign with them. Despite what Eppler said, yesterday, at the Ohtani news conference, he isn't that stupid. Simply getting the return on a qualifying offer will not be enough. Heck, the organization would be subject to MORE ridicule if they simply let Trout walk, than if they traded him in 2019. And he could be traded in 2019, especially if the Angels are mediocre-to-bad, like this year. Sadly, the death of his brother in law also probably plays into Trout signing on, somewhere closer to home. When I read Trout's promise to always take care of his sister, I read Phillies or Yankees, all the way. 

-The AL West is NOT a weak division. But, barring some REALLY significant moves this winter or next, third or fourth place looks likely for 2019-2020. Tick-tick-tick..............

So, whatever became of that investigation by MLB into whomever leaked the info about Ohtani's arm problems and getting the stem-cell/platelet-rich/whatever injection it was? That made the Angels look rather foolish with the signing and PR campaign of this supposed two-way star. Looks like that should have been listened to. Instead, the Angels "guaranteed" Ohtani that he would be used as a two way player, even though they apparently knew he had damage. Now, TJ surgery will likely force him to actually miss action as a hitter, too. 

Quite the 20 million dollar gamble. No one pays that kind of posting fee for anything but a pitcher. Then, there was the 2.3 million international bonus pool money. And how long does a pitcher take to regain his form AFTER the surgery. Oh sure, they return in 12-18 months. But almost never as the same pitcher. Will he now be pitching every 7th to 8th day? 

Arte is Arte-ed again. 

Um, every team had access to medicals...every team said he would be allowed to be a two way player...every team was willing to pay the money knowing his UCL could pop.

Difference is he chose the Angels...not sure how that makes them foolish 

And the rest is the usual speculative drivel...

[mulwin444]

2 minutes ago, WeatherWonk said:

If an organization is stupid enough to NOT consider trading Trout, then they will suck for a lot longer than 4-5 years. That's terminal brain disorder. Time for a decapitation.

Spoken like a man of experience

[Angelsjunky]

17 minutes ago, WeatherWonk said:

Quite the 20 million dollar gamble. No one pays that kind of posting fee for anything but a pitcher. Then, there was the 2.3 million international bonus pool money. And how long does a pitcher take to regain his form AFTER the surgery. Oh sure, they return in 12-18 months. But almost never as the same pitcher. Will he now be pitching every 7th to 8th day? 

Arte is Arte-ed again. 

Except for the fact that Ohtani has already earned that $20 million, and quite a bit more through marketing, PR, etc.

The Angels scored big when they got Ohtani, even if he never pitches again. He is a star hitter alone, with the potential to be a superstar - hitting and pitching. 

The TJS is a bummer, but his .900+ OPS is not.

[Taylor]

1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

Guys I have a genyious idea.

We trade Trout and absolutely rob a team of their farm system.

Then we sign him when he is a free agent. 

This is....Billy Eppler has an easy job.

How awesome would that be, especially if Trout were in on it from the beginning? Genious indede.

[Dick B Back]

3 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Please punch dick repeatedly until you pass out.

What?

[AngelsLakersFan]

Fangraphs podcast from last night about Ohtani: https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/effectively-wild-episode-1267-the-ohtani-elbow-inquest/

[Angel Oracle]

Arte has only had one big money signing after the Hackilton fiasco almost 6 years ago, and even that one was re-signing Upton to a contract not much different from the one they acquired when trading for him.

If Arte re-signs Trout AND Simba (critical team leader and only turned 29 this week), and then signs Arenado after 2020, that would go a ways towards keeping a team (with an emerging farm system) in post-season contention through the 2020's and maybe give the 2000s a decent run for the money. And yes, the Astros are still likely to be solid in the next decade.  

And yes, Trout can still be there for his family and extended family back east during November through early February each off-season, while still playing for the Halos after 2020.

[yk9001]

Arte has gotten so much more bang for the buck out the Ohtani signing than he ever has with the Methuselah signing

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

Arte has gotten so much more bang for the buck out the Ohtani signing than he ever has with the Methuselah signing

Unless of course that helped get his $3 billion TV contract.   They happened in the same month I believe.   I have heard speculation on both sides of that discussion.   Bottom line is he has very rich TV contract considering they’ve always had very weak ratings.  

[WeatherWonk]

3 hours ago, mulwin444 said:

Um, every team had access to medicals...every team said he would be allowed to be a two way player...every team was willing to pay the money knowing his UCL could pop.

Difference is he chose the Angels...not sure how that makes them foolish 

And the rest is the usual speculative drivel...

Link, please.

Talk about speculative drivel............

[WeatherWonk]

2 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Except for the fact that Ohtani has already earned that $20 million, and quite a bit more through marketing, PR, etc.

The Angels scored big when they got Ohtani, even if he never pitches again. He is a star hitter alone, with the potential to be a superstar - hitting and pitching. 

The TJS is a bummer, but his .900+ OPS is not.

How do you figure he has already earned that 20 mil? Please break it down for me. Show me the increases that can be directly attributed to Ohtani pitching for the equivalent of about a month and a half and DHing less than half the Angel games? 20 million in five months. TV contract was already set. The 50 million from the sale of that internet property by MLB was already done.

Angel attendance is up about 400 per game at home SO FAR. But actual butts in the seats has fallen off a cliff. Just look at any home broadcast for the past 1.5 months. That's not selling trinkets, either. And paid attendance is diving, too.

 

[Angelsjunky]

He’s contributed over 3 WAR. The going rate is something like $8-9 million per WAR. That’s enough right there. Then you add in whatever the Angels make by marketing him (which I have no idea what that would be, but it’s gotta be something) and voila.

[WeatherWonk]

23 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

He’s contributed over 3 WAR. The going rate is something like $8-9 million per WAR. That’s enough right there. Then you add in whatever the Angels make by marketing him (which I have no idea what that would be, but it’s gotta be something) and voila.

Well, I see what you are saying. That seems more like something from the expenditure column, rather than an income producing line item.

But I was an English and Communications major. We'll need a ruling from AO on this. 

[eligrba]

19 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

 

Trout has earned the right to determine his destiny.  I will not fault him if he signs elsewhere....its tough to watch this shit as a fan, I can't imagine being involved in it as a generational player.  Trout leaves the Angels for other reasons than money; I think he has earned it.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

https://sports.yahoo.com/shohei-ohtani-can-play-2019-even-undergoes-tommy-john-surgery-061654070.html

How Shohei Ohtani can play in 2019 even if he undergoes Tommy John surgery

...At the three-month mark, one surgeon said, he would expect Ohtani to be ready to start taking batting practice. Batting in and of itself, according to another surgeon, is not considered perilous for a UCL; Major League Baseball’s injury-tracking database, according to a source, shows only one case in which a hitter was believed to have blown out his elbow while swinging a bat.

Even better for Ohtani, a third doctor said, is his handedness. The elbow ligament that is stressed most during the swing, he said, is on the trail, or back, arm. Because Ohtani is a right-handed pitcher and left-handed hitter, his trail arm is his left. While this does not inure him from any troubles swinging, the fourth surgeon said, the case for Ohtani to bat next season is well worth whatever risk the Angels would be taking. Particularly, the first surgeon said, because he sees Ohtani being ready to return to full-time batting anywhere between the 4½-to-six-month mark...

[nando714]

Handling of ohtani- awful

[Stradling]

28 minutes ago, nando714 said:

Handling of ohtani- awful

Not even a little.  Good to see you back.

[Blarg]

30 minutes ago, nando714 said:

Handling of ohtani- awful

Yeah, they never should have let him make any of his own career and health decisions. 

[mp170.6]

Hey Stradling, the damn ice tea at In-N-Out was hot again.  The one on State College north of the Big A

[Jeff Fletcher]

21 hours ago, daygloman said:

LOL! My opinion don't mean SHIT in the grand scheme of things......

My opinion said: fix it first....... And now WHO NEEDS to have TMJ??

LOL! I guess you win, since you backed him pitching before he was healthy 100%...

Kudos.

I made the mistake of finally opening this thread. A few things....

No doctor even offered surgery as an option in June. So it’s not a choice. No doctor will do a surgery you don’t need. Unless you wanna go to Costa Rica or something  

Also, it had healed as much as it was going to heal naturally. Sitting out till February wasn’t going to make it any stronger. 

Finally, the worst scenario is waiting till February and then tearing it. Then you lose a season of him hitting and 2 seasons of him pitching. 

[Tank]

7 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I made the mistake of finally opening this thread. A few things....

No doctor even offered surgery as an option in June. So it’s not a choice. No doctor will do a surgery you don’t need. Unless you wanna go to Costa Rica or something  

Also, it had healed as much as it was going to heal naturally. Sitting out till February wasn’t going to make it any stronger. 

Finally, the worst scenario is waiting till February and then tearing it. Then you lose a season of him hitting and 2 seasons of him pitching. 

thank you. it won't hit its intended target, but the rest of us get it.