Are the Angels stuck?

[Second Base]

I hope the Angels use Cozart as a utility infielder, Ward as the third baseman, and sign Matt Adams for part time 1B and Daniel Murphy for second base.  Probably wouldn't have to surrender a draft pick for either but would drastically improve the offensive output.  

Then, I'm hoping the Angels sign one decent pitcher that they know will give them some quality innings.  Someone like Gio Gonzalez  Then top it off with one steady bullpen acquisition like David Robertson. 

I feel like that would build a contender, be financially responsible and keep them away from long term contracts that could handcuff the team later on. 

 

[Angelsjunky]

I believe the term "Craig" is only reserved for links, not perspectives or types of posts. It is never a Craig to endlessly recycle variations on "the big picture" threads. We'll be doing it all offseason, as you know.

Anyhow, I've pretty much written 2019 off as another transition year. Sure, Eppler should try to make the team as competitive as possible, but with an eye for improving the trajectory rather than going all in for 2019. In other words, think of the three-year plan:

2018: Finish with 75-80 wins

2019: Finish with 80-85 wins

2020: Finish with 85-90 wins

2021 and beyond: 90+ wins

To do that both patience and persistence is required - and, of course, savvy moves.

So as far as improving the team, I look at the next few years. By 2020 or so we should see Pujols swapped for Thaiss, with some Walsh and Fernandez sprinkled in. 2B will eventually give way for Rengifo or Jones. 3B will hopefully see a more established Ward. C either we go for Grandal or find some other way to improve. RF we'll see Adell replace Calhoun and eventually Marsh replace Upton, with Adams/Deveaux/Knowles waiting in the wings for opportunities in 2021 and beyond.

The problem with the pitching is that there's no clear sign of elite talent. Canning and Suarez show flashes, but are more likely to be mid-rotation types, along with Barria, Heaney, and Skaggs. I'm not willing to expect anything from Soriano, C-Rod, Rivera etc at this point, except hope they are healthy and develop.

But my main point is, the trajectory is what is important. If the Angels show no improvement next year, with stalled farm growth, then I think you might see a bit of a firesale in July: Calhoun, Heaney, Skaggs, Shoe, etc, even Upton and Simmons sold off to rebuild the farm (again). But I'm not expecting that, and I'm still optimistic about the future...just not expecting a huge turnaround in 2019.

[GrittyVeterans]

80-85 wins next season would be very disappointing. This is a team with Trout, Ohtani, Simmons,Upton on it, and the goal has to be 90+ going into the offseAson

[stormngt]

1 hour ago, Scotty@AW said:

I hope the Angels use Cozart as a utility infielder, Ward as the third baseman, and sign Matt Adams for part time 1B and Daniel Murphy for second base.  Probably wouldn't have to surrender a draft pick for either but would drastically improve the offensive output.  

Then, I'm hoping the Angels sign one decent pitcher that they know will give them some quality innings.  Someone like Gio Gonzalez  Then top it off with one steady bullpen acquisition like David Robertson. 

I feel like that would build a contender, be financially responsible and keep them away from long term contracts that could handcuff the team later on. 

 

What happens to fletcher

[Broad Street]

1 hour ago, stormngt said:

What happens to fletcher

Yeah I'll take Fletcher over Murphy. Cheaper, younger, and more sparky.

[Blarg]

Fletcher has accumulated 1.6 WAR in 66 games, all the while learning at the MLB level. I just don't think he has come close to his potential as an every day player. At this point I would write him in as the 2019 second baseman. 

[Stradling]

Just now, Blarg said:

Fletcher has accumulated 1.6 WAR in 66 games, all the while learning at the MLB level. I just don't think he has come close to his potential as an every day player. At this point I would write him in as the 2019 second baseman. 

I agree with this.  I also wouldn’t mind signing one of the good 2nd baseman on the market and moving Fletcher to 3rd.  I would like to have a line up strong enough to have Fletcher bat 9th.  

[failos]

Yes, the Angels stuck

[kevinb]

6 hours ago, stormngt said:

The team doesnt need a lot of help if they are healthy and play to their ability.

Early in the season Kinsler, Cozart, Calhoun, Young, Marte and Valbueno all played well below expectations. 

Then the injury bug hit hard again.

The problem with the Angel's is that we have too many players that are never healthy and too many players play well below average.  If we can get some luck in the health department and find players at 2nd, 3rd, and and bench players would just be average for their positions. 

Team doesn’t need a lot of help. Really? The team as we stand today is 17 games out of first place in the AL West. I wonder how many games we’d have to be to need a lot of help. 

[stormngt]

32 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Team doesn’t need a lot of help. Really? The team as we stand today is 17 games out of first place in the AL West. I wonder how many games we’d have to be to need a lot of help. 

How many games would we be out of it had our pitching stayed healthy, Middleton didnt yo down and Kole wasnt the worst player in baseball for two months.

We were in 2nd place and winning close to 60% of our games until middleton went down, our bullpen blew about 5 straight games all the while with Kinsler, Calhoun, Valbueno and Young posting a sub 600 OPS.  

Then Ohtani goes down, Just about every starting pitcher in our depth charts went down.  Add a month without Trout and extended time without Upton and you have your 17 games.

Maybe you should read my whole post before you are a smart ass.

[Tank]

6 hours ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

Harper is capable of monster seasons. He is also capable of being mediocre. His inconsistency is maddening.

And that's exactly why he will be grossly overpaid and should be avoided by the halos.

[Tank]

7 hours ago, Kody Mac said:

Trout could actually start doing more. If you have 100 more walks than the rest of the league, that's all fine and dandy, but it's not really helping the team when you get stranded all the time. If you're going for that super high OBP, you better have a lot more SB than you do...

Maybe he could remind the players who hit after him that they should try to drive him in.

[kevinb]

7 minutes ago, stormngt said:

How many games would we be out of it had our pitching stayed healthy, Middleton didnt yo down and Kole wasnt the worst player in baseball for two months.

We were in 2nd place and winning close to 60% of our games until middleton went down, our bullpen blew about 5 straight games all the while with Kinsler, Calhoun, Valbueno and Young posting a sub 600 OPS.  

Then Ohtani goes down, Just about every starting pitcher in our depth charts went down.  Add a month without Trout and extended time without Upton and you have your 17 games.

Maybe you should read my whole post before you are a smart ass.

Read your whole post. Disagree. Injuries happen. This team isn’t very good. We were 10 plus out of it before Trout went down. Oh and Middleton is a proven closer right? The bullpen was always a question mark so was the starting rotation. Cozart had one good year. Kole who the hell knows. And Calhoun’s been on a tear about two months now and we’re just barely above the Rangers. What’s our record after the first 16 games of the season? Under .500 ok perfect great. Thanks for playing. What’s the old Parcells quote? You are what your record says you are. 

[Stradling]

Just now, Kevinb said:

Read your whole post. Disagree. Injuries happen. This team isn’t very good. We were 10 plus out of it before Trout went down. Oh and Middleton is a proven closer right? The bullpen was always a question mark so was the tarting rotation. Cozart had one good year. Kole who the hell knows. And Calhoun’s been on a tear about two months now and we’re just barely above the Rangers. What’s our record after the first 16 games of the season? Under .500 ok perfect great. Thanks for playing. What’s the old Parcells quote? You are what your record says you are. 

His point is we aren’t 17 games worse than them with the normal amount of injuries.  We are comparing them to a team that until 10 days ago had used a total of 5 starting pitchers this year.  So yea, injuries is a valid reason we are THIS far out.  I don’t think we are 17 games better with health but we are certainly 10 games better.  With health and with a couple of moves we can be a wild card team.  Then anything can happen in the playoffs.

[kevinb]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

His point is we aren’t 17 games worse than them with the normal amount of injuries.  We are comparing them to a team that until 10 days ago had used a total of 5 starting pitchers this year.  So yea, injuries is a valid reason we are THIS far out.  I don’t think we are 17 games better with health but we are certainly 10 games better.  With health and with a couple of moves we can be a wild card team.  Then anything can happen in the playoffs.

My point is so what if we are 10 games better or 5 games better. We aren’t competitive over the long term. I’m tired of fighting for a wild card birth. We have the most resources and we are in a better market we shouldn’t  be begging for a wild card spot. Which in reality there’s only one spot available because one of the Yankees or Boston will get the other one or are the clear favorites to get it. Compete for division titles not second fiddle or don’t compete at all. This team needs an overhaul in the rotation. A closer and about 2-3 better hitters in the starting line up. Who the heck knows with Ward (way to early) and Fletcher has proven he can hit but he has absolutely no power so is he an every day starter? Idk 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Kevinb said:

My point is so what if we are 10 games better or 5 games better. We aren’t competitive over the long term. I’m tired of fighting for a wild card birth. We have the most resources and we are in a better market we shouldn’t  be begging for a wild card spot. Which in reality there’s only one spot available because one of the Yankees or Boston will get the other one or are the clear favorites to get it. Compete for division titles not second fiddle or don’t compete at all. This team needs an overhaul in the rotation. A closer and about 2-3 better hitters in the starting line up. Who the heck knows with Ward (way to early) and Fletcher has proven he can hit but he has absolutely no power so is he an every day starter? Idk 

Yea, I am not going to pretend we are great, nor am I going to throw away a season because we aren’t as good as a team that tanked for three years to draft at the top of the draft for a few years.  I will never respect a team that tanks.  As for the revenue, we have basically the same TV contract as the Astros, well we get $25 million more a season, or something like that.  Also winning brings in a windfall of money, and they have been winning lately.  We have a strong farm that is on the verge of providing help.  Don’t for a second think that Houston will be able to afford to keep all of their players.  They do have a couple of stud pitchers about to be ready, so that will help when Verlander slows down in the next couple of years.  We were really good for a decade, then our GM stopped drafting useful players. We are closer than you think to being really solid again.  

 

[Blarg]

17 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Injuries happen.

57 different players have worn an Angels uniform this season.

34 were pitchers.

That's not "injuries happen" that's a catastrophic year of injuries.

[kevinb]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Yea, I am not going to pretend we are great, nor am I going to throw away a season because we aren’t as good as a team that tanked for three years to draft at the top of the draft for a few years.  I will never respect a team that tanks.  As for the revenue, we have basically the same TV contract as the Astros, well we get $25 million more a season, or something like that.  Also winning brings in a windfall of money, and they have been winning lately.  We have a strong farm that is on the verge of providing help.  Don’t for a second think that Houston will be able to afford to keep all of their players.  They do have a couple of stud pitchers about to be ready, so that will help when Verlander slows down in the next couple of years.  We were really good for a decade, then our GM stopped drafting useful players. We are closer than you think to being really solid again.  

 

I get it. I don’t care how you win as long as you win. The end result is all that matters. I am just tired of finishing or looking for a wild card spot. It’s just really annoying. I’d like to win next year. Planning on winning in 2021 is just dumb. We have Trout for a guaranteed two more years. Win that is all. 

[kevinb]

2 minutes ago, Blarg said:

57 different players have worn an Angels uniform this season.

34 were pitchers.

That's not "injuries happen" that's a catastrophic year of injuries.

Who’s fault is that? The people our gm brought in have a history of injuries. Hell Ohtani had a bum elbow when we signed him. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Kevinb said:

Who’s fault is that? The people our gm brought in have a history of injuries. Hell Ohtani had a bum elbow when we signed him. 

I agree fuck Ohtani, we should have never got him.  

[Stradling]

Skaggs, Heaney, Trop, Middleton, Richards, Jewell all here before Eppler.  Guys he brought in that got hurt, Wood, Lamb, and Ohtani.  

[kevinb]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

I agree F*ck Ohtani, we should have never got him.  

Definitely didn’t say that. Injuries happen. Especially when u sign guys who already have injuries. 

[Stradling]

Just now, Kevinb said:

Definitely didn’t say that. Injuries happen. Especially when u sign guys who already have injuries. 

Yea, like the three I mentioned.  Oh and there is JC Ramirez, who I don’t believe had an injury history, but I could be wrong.

[kevinb]

Just now, Stradling said:

Skaggs, Heaney, Trop, Middleton, Richards, Jewell all here before Eppler.  Guys he brought in that got hurt, Wood, Lamb, and Ohtani.  

Um you missed a one. Meyer? Is trading players not allowed? Before Skaggs got hurt people were asking about him via trade. Seems like it might have been an opportune time to do something like that. Especially with someone as high risk for an injury as he has been. 

[Stradling]

Just now, Kevinb said:

Um you missed a one. Meyer? Is trading players not allowed? Before Skaggs got hurt people were asking about him via trade. Seems like it might have been an opportune time to do something like that. Especially with someone as high risk for an injury as he has been. 

Just curious, what do you think we could have gotten for Santiago?  Might as well go big with potential when you are trading an awful pitcher like Santiago.