Pujols Out For Season with Knee Surgery

[70runner]

7 minutes ago, Stradling said:

No we aren’t sure, and saying this ignores the fact that he was still better than the guys that would replace him in the line up this year, which are Marte and Valbuena.

There it is, the Pujols catch22.  The team has purposely avoided keeping anyone (Trumbo, Cron, etc) or acquiring anyone who could potentially replace him in the lineup.  Hence the worn out defense that as bad as he is, there is no one to replace him.   I believe Scioscia is the driver, perhaps in tandem with Moreno.  Regardless it's time to move on from the bad feet, bad knee, bad player, bad contract that is Pujols.

[UndertheHalo]

7 minutes ago, Homebrewer said:

If Albert was to read this thread and see what the fans are thinking/saying...I wonder if he would re-think his options going forward.

Would you rethink acquiring 90 million dollars because some internet bros said you sucked at baseball ?

[Adam]

3000 HITS!

[Homebrewer]

6 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Would you rethink acquiring 90 million dollars because some internet bros said you sucked at baseball ?

It's not just us saying it, and isn't Albert all about character and doing the right thing? Isn't that why Arte wanted him to be part of (the face of) the organization in the first place...and for decades after his playing days were over?

Or...is it really all about the money and there isn't any consideration of pride, or for the good of the franchise?

 

 

[Docwaukee]

I don't know for sure, but my guess is that Albert has played through this before so it tells us a couple things

1.  Without meaningful games, they've chosen to extend Albert's off season to give him the best chance of being healthy again for next year

2.  they need his spot in the lineup to evaluate other players 

[Angelsjunky]

There are two extremes:

1. You let Albert play as much as he wants until the end of his contract, because he was once great and Mike Trout likes him, yada yada.

2. You dump him this offseason, swallow the $90MM, and turn the page.

 

It doesn't have to be one or the other; in fact, I think a middle ground is optimal. The first obviously isn't a good idea because Albert is bad and will likely only get worse. But the second would likely have serious clubhouse ramifications, even damaging the Angels' chance of extending Trout.

How about the phase-out option? In 2019 Albert becomes a platoon player and pinch-hitter, sharing DH duties with Ohtani, getting the occasional start at 1B, and pinch-hitting on his days off. Maybe 80 starts, 100 games total. In 2018, he's more of a bench guy, starts maybe a third of games at DH/1B, some pinch-hitting. Hopefully he'll retire before 2020, but if not he can be a "bench coach" with a few at-bats just for old time's sake.

[mtangelsfan]

38 minutes ago, Homebrewer said:

It's not just us saying it, and isn't Albert all about character and doing the right thing? Isn't that why Arte wanted him to be part of (the face of) the organization in the first place...and for decades after his playing days were over?

Or...is it really all about the money and there isn't any consideration of pride, or for the good of the franchise?

 

 

The "right thing" is to turn down 90 million dollars?  In whose world?  

 

[Lou]

2 hours ago, m0nkey said:

Jason Heyward can give good rain delay speeches.  Can't put a price on that

sure you can.

$184 million 

[HaloNArizona]

Angels have to consider parting ways with Albert Pujols

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/24519099/mlb-los-angeles-angels-consider-parting-ways-albert-pujols

 

Here's how rough it has been for Pujols the past two seasons. There have been 177 players with at least 800 plate appearances and Pujols ranks 162nd in wRC+, the park-adjusted metric found at FanGraphs. He's wedged alongside such luminaries as Tim Anderson, Gerardo Parra and Jason Kipnis. He ranks 172nd out of the 177 players in on-base percentage and has grounded into the third-most double plays along the way.

 

[Docwaukee]

it's gonna sound like BS, but because of Heyward's defense and age, there's still a reasonable shot he ends up worth the money.  According to bWAR he's been worth about 5.5 WAR during the contract so far.  If he grabs another 0.5 WAR this year it will have him at 6 while having been paid 78mil.  He's owed another 106 mil over the next 5 years.  So he needs about 12 WAR over the next 5 years to break even or about 2.4 WAR per year for his age 29-33 seasons.  Actually quite doable.  

[Docwaukee]

9 minutes ago, HaloNArizona said:

Angels have to consider parting ways with Albert Pujols

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/24519099/mlb-los-angeles-angels-consider-parting-ways-albert-pujols

 

Here's how rough it has been for Pujols the past two seasons. There have been 177 players with at least 800 plate appearances and Pujols ranks 162nd in wRC+, the park-adjusted metric found at FanGraphs. He's wedged alongside such luminaries as Tim Anderson, Gerardo Parra and Jason Kipnis. He ranks 172nd out of the 177 players in on-base percentage and has grounded into the third-most double plays along the way.

 

They have considered it, and I believe they are in the two year transition of parting ways with him.  Next year he'll have a partial year with about 300-350 at bats.  Then 2020 will be his farewell tour where he'll announce his retirement prior to the season.  The halos will end up on the hook for the whole salary, but it will come off the books in terms of CBT.  

but they aren't ever ever ever just going to release/cut him.  

[beatlesrule]

23 minutes ago, HaloNArizona said:

Angels have to consider parting ways with Albert Pujols

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/24519099/mlb-los-angeles-angels-consider-parting-ways-albert-pujols

 

Here's how rough it has been for Pujols the past two seasons. There have been 177 players with at least 800 plate appearances and Pujols ranks 162nd in wRC+, the park-adjusted metric found at FanGraphs. He's wedged alongside such luminaries as Tim Anderson, Gerardo Parra and Jason Kipnis. He ranks 172nd out of the 177 players in on-base percentage and has grounded into the third-most double plays along the way.

 

Hi Craig.

[JarsOfClay]

1 hour ago, Homebrewer said:

It's not just us saying it, and isn't Albert all about character and doing the right thing? Isn't that why Arte wanted him to be part of (the face of) the organization in the first place...and for decades after his playing days were over?

Or...is it really all about the money and there isn't any consideration of pride, or for the good of the franchise?

It's really about the money, if it wasn't he would be a cardinal right now, wouldn't he?

And he made an additional 3m this year due to getting 3000 hits. Pujols just had to throw that incentive in because his contract obviously wasn't lucrative enough.

I laugh at people who think he will retire early and forfeit any money. The angels will have to force him and they likely will, but they will still be on the hook for every single penny.

[TroutBaseball]

On the Baseball Tonight podcast Buster Olney and Keith Law insisted that the Angels must sit down with Albert this offseason and end his time with the Angels before a new manager starts

http://play.podtrac.com/espn-baseballtonightwithbusterolney/c.espnradio.com/audio/3541479/baseball_2018-08-30-112319.64k.mp3

 

[yamsi12]

Goodnight sweet prince.

[HaloNArizona]

42 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

Hi Craig.

Life is....didnt read through all of the pages...too lazy

[mtangelsfan]

7 minutes ago, TroutBaseball said:

On the Baseball Tonight podcast Buster Olney and Keith Law insisted that the Angels must sit down with Albert this offseason and end his time with the Angels before a new manager starts

http://play.podtrac.com/espn-baseballtonightwithbusterolney/c.espnradio.com/audio/3541479/baseball_2018-08-30-112319.64k.mp3

 

LOL, well if Buster and Keith say the Angels must..............................

you should call Arte and tell him

[ten ocho recon scout]

2 hours ago, 70runner said:

There it is, the Pujols catch22.  The team has purposely avoided keeping anyone (Trumbo, Cron, etc) or acquiring anyone who could potentially replace him in the lineup.  Hence the worn out defense that as bad as he is, there is no one to replace him.   I believe Scioscia is the driver, perhaps in tandem with Moreno.  Regardless it's time to move on from the bad feet, bad knee, bad player, bad contract that is Pujols.

Meh.

Ten year contract... i think just about any team who signed him wouldnt sign another 1B.

And trumbo was traded because we were set everywhere he could play, and we needed pitching

[Angelsjunky]

I wonder how much Albert still enjoys playing baseball? It must be rough, being a shadow of your former self. We've never seen the truly great Albert, but it is worth remembering that for the first decade of his career he was one of the very best in the game, and an all-time great.

The reason I wonder whether he still enjoys himself is that if the Angels were to sit him down and say something like, "We'll give you half of your remaining contract if you retire now," he might be tempted: that's three years he gets to live his life, be with his family, and he still gets $45 million more. I mean, the difference between "$205 million" and "$250 million" won't be experienced by Albert except as an abstaction, while three years of life from "39" to "41" is real time that can't be bought back. 

 

[tomsred]

3 hours ago, Homebrewer said:

It's not just us saying it, and isn't Albert all about character and doing the right thing? Isn't that why Arte wanted him to be part of (the face of) the organization in the first place...and for decades after his playing days were over?

Or...is it really all about the money and there isn't any consideration of pride, or for the good of the franchise?

 

 

But is doing the right thing making some internet bros happy, or providing for your friends and family, and supporting charities.  The  money will get spent either way, it will either get spent and possibly blown on other baseball players, or maybe it will provide needed funds for other more worthy causes.  Again, don't confuse the posters on this website as representative of all fans.  There are many fans who like to see him chase records, or just to see a legend play (even though he's is not in his prime).  And because he has the funds to help those in need, he has many other supporters who have appreciated the fact that he has helped their causes over the years.  I'm just saying that the whole equation is a lot more complicated than just redirecting $90M to other unknown players over the next three years.  Maybe Arte wants to win a championship, but that doesn't mean he necessarily wants to win at all costs.  Arte values relationships, community, friends, family, and he wants to uphold these values in spite of the cost of ultimate team success.  It's not a black and white thing that he will do whatever is best just for the sake of the team winning baseball games.  

[Blarg]

He needs to voluntarily retire with a buy out.

[tomsred]

1 hour ago, JarsOfClay said:

It's really about the money, if it wasn't he would be a cardinal right now, wouldn't he?

And he made an additional 3m this year due to getting 3000 hits. Pujols just had to throw that incentive in because his contract obviously wasn't lucrative enough.

I laugh at people who think he will retire early and forfeit any money. The angels will have to force him and they likely will, but they will still be on the hook for every single penny.

How do you know that he put in the paragraph of getting to three thousand hits? 

That's sounds like an incentive that the team, or the team's marketing department, would put in his contract.  It forces him to continue to perform at a level that would get him there, and not give up after only a few years, and still collect his entire contract.

Yes he was offered more money to come here by Arte, but the Cardinals were not interested in matching that figure.  If he felt that the Cardinals did not value his contribution to the extent that Arte did in the past, or future, why would he want to stay there?  I wouldn't.  I would want to go where I was more wanted.

[Barrett]

1 hour ago, tomsred said:

How do you know that he put in the paragraph of getting to three thousand hits? 

That's sounds like an incentive that the team, or the team's marketing department, would put in his contract.  It forces him to continue to perform at a level that would get him there, and not give up after only a few years, and still collect his entire contract.

Yes he was offered more money to come here by Arte, but the Cardinals were not interested in matching that figure.  If he felt that the Cardinals did not value his contribution to the extent that Arte did in the past, or future, why would he want to stay there?  I wouldn't.  I would want to go where I was more wanted.

Money is a huge factor and it should be. Arte is making hand over fist money and so is Albert. Nothing wrong with that, and ZERO reason to think that Albert will retire before getting every last penny. I know I would. Angels should eat the contract and move on, that's what I would do with his contract now. It is a sunk cost anyway. 

[JarsOfClay]

1 hour ago, tomsred said:

How do you know that he put in the paragraph of getting to three thousand hits? 

That's sounds like an incentive that the team, or the team's marketing department, would put in his contract.  It forces him to continue to perform at a level that would get him there, and not give up after only a few years, and still collect his entire contract.

Yes he was offered more money to come here by Arte, but the Cardinals were not interested in matching that figure.  If he felt that the Cardinals did not value his contribution to the extent that Arte did in the past, or future, why would he want to stay there?  I wouldn't.  I would want to go where I was more wanted.

I would think 250m dollars is enough incentive to perform at a high level. 

The cardinals gave him a generous offer. One that wouldn't cripple the franchise, but still keep Pujols in a cardinal uniform.  Im also guessing the cardinals know something that the angels dont, especially about Pujols' age.

Here something I found from Pujols' wikipedia:

Although Pujols' listed birth date was 1980, there have been critics who speculate that he is older than his listed age. One particular statement cited as evidence was his statement in 2018 in an interview over hitting a home run off Octavio Dotel when he around 12-13 years old, ending the story by saying to end the story, "And we go back, you know, 28 years later, and here I am.", which would make him 40 instead of his stated age of 38.

 

[Stradling]

not the age nonsense again.