Scioscia NOT stepping down

[Warfarin]

6 minutes ago, 2020worldseries said:

I like Grandal but I don't think we should sign him

can you imagine our team in 2021?

Grandal - 35 yo catcher

Upton - 35 yo 

Pujols 

Ohtani

 

In 2021 we would have 4 full time Designated hitters

 

Grandal is currently 29 years old.  In 3 years, in 2021, that makes him 32, not 35  .. he'll still be a catcher.

Pujols is unlikely to be on this team at that point.  He would have either been released or retired.

We'll see about Upton when the time comes.

[Troll Daddy]

Why should he step down ... he’s under contract 

[ettin]

26 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

My apologies, perhaps a poor choice of words on my point, but I think we are largely in agreement.

If 18mil AAV is what it takes, then I support that, too.  I am largely against signing SPs like Corbin, Keuchal, etc.  SP signings are usually a very poor investment, same with RP signings.  I'd prefer we continue to develop and promote them from within and roll with that. 

Ideally, we sign Grandal and have one of Briceno/Arcia serve as the backup catcher.  

That would be cost-effective in my book.

[Troll Daddy]

4 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Grandal is currently 29 years old.  In 3 years, in 2021, that makes him 32, not 35  .. he'll still be a catcher.

Pujols is unlikely to be on this team at that point.  He would have either been released or retired.

We'll see about Upton when the time comes.

Pujols is season to season .., he’s a lock for 2019 imo

I wouldn’t mind kicking the tires on Grandal 

[ettin]

13 minutes ago, 2020worldseries said:

I like Grandal but I don't think we should sign him

can you imagine our team in 2021?

Grandal - 35 yo catcher

Upton - 35 yo 

Pujols 

Ohtani

 

In 2021 we would have 4 full time Designated hitters

 

You make an assumption that we have not traded Upton by then which I think is overlooking our farm a bit. Marsh could take his spot. Devereux even by that point, potentially. Not to mention trades or free agency again.

I don't think we keep Upton past 2021 in all probability. Isn't one of our new 2018 draft picks an OF too? Lots of options I think.

[2020worldseries]

5 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Grandal is currently 29 years old.  In 3 years, in 2021, that makes him 32, not 35  .. he'll still be a catcher.

Pujols is unlikely to be on this team at that point.  He would have either been released or retired.

We'll see about Upton when the time comes.

33

I wouldn't trust a 30 yo catchers knees enough to sign him to a large contract, especially when you expect him to be your primary catcher the entire 4/5 years

[Warfarin]

1 minute ago, 2020worldseries said:

33

I wouldn't trust a 30 yo catchers knees enough to sign him to a large contract, especially when you expect him to be your primary catcher the entire 4/5 years

He is 29 years old currently, in 2018.  His birthday is in November.

2019 - 30.

2020 - 31.

2021 - 32.  

[2020worldseries]

4 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

He is 29 years old currently, in 2018.  His birthday is in November.

2019 - 30.

2020 - 31.

2021 - 32.  

lol whatever

I just can't believe people would give a 30 yo catcher a large contract, especially when you expect their to be zero problems and everything will be fine and dandy. He will just glide thru the next 4/5 years with no problems and catch everyday

[Tank]

3 hours ago, Dick B Back said:

@Tank spilled the beans after he had lunch with Sosh.

I tried to use my napkin but missed, and it somehow ended up in my google docs. 

[Warfarin]

3 minutes ago, 2020worldseries said:

lol whatever

I just can't believe people would give a 30 yo catcher to a large contract, especially when you expect their to be zero problems and everything will be fine and dandy. He will just glide thru the next 4/5 years with no problems and catch everyday

I don't think anyone claimed anything like what you are asserting.  Can you show me where anyone has said he will have no problems and catch everyday?

I believe it will be an overpay, and I believe you are likely to see some diminishing returns down the line.  That said, that is why it is so important avoid overspending in other areas, hence why I qualified it by saying I would not sign any significant SPs or RPs to contracts.   Save money in other areas.

Again, it is about the depth of your organization.  We are developing a number of options in most parts of our club, but the one area we really have no legitimate option coming up is catcher.  This is why, IMO, it is okay to overpay for that one position in particular.  

[2020worldseries]

2 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

I don't think anyone claimed anything like what you are asserting.  Can you show me where anyone has said he will have no problems and catch everyday?

 

So what are you saying? Sign Grandal so he can catch the next year or two and then DH in the future?

Why invest a large 4/5 year contract into someone who you are already questioning his ability to play his position in the future

sounds disastrous to me

[Stradling]

11 minutes ago, 2020worldseries said:

lol whatever

I just can't believe people would give a 30 yo catcher a large contract, especially when you expect their to be zero problems and everything will be fine and dandy. He will just glide thru the next 4/5 years with no problems and catch everyday

Ok, how many 20-28 year old catchers become available on the market?  Do you want an upgrade at catcher or more one year stop gaps?  

[Stradling]

34 minutes ago, 2020worldseries said:

I like Grandal but I don't think we should sign him

can you imagine our team in 2021?

Grandal - 35 yo catcher

Upton - 35 yo 

Pujols 

Ohtani

 

In 2021 we would have 4 full time Designated hitters

 

Dude, where is your math coming from?  2021 is in three years.  That makes Upton 33 and Grandall 32.  Also if Albert is still playing (he won't be) it will be the last year of his contract.  

[tdawg87]

Every year the Angels keep passing over these 26 year old free agent superstars that want to sign for cheap.

This organization is run by absolute idiots.

[Lou]

2 hours ago, GrittyVeterans said:

Scioscia’s got Arte by the balls so good he could miss the playoffs 20 out of 21 years and still get his contract renewed

"Oh Lord. That's ridiculous"

[2020worldseries]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ok, how many 20-28 year old catchers become available on the market?  Do you want an upgrade at catcher or more one year stop gaps?  

I'd rather sign Lucroy to a 1/2 year deal then have Kruger slowly developed into the catcher of the future

[Stradling]

Just now, tdawg87 said:

Every year the Angels keep passing over these 26 year old free agent superstars that want to sign for cheap.

This organization is run by absolute idiots.

Yep, when I read the stop signing 30 year old free agents I just laugh.  We have regulars on here that for some reason get emotional and lose the ability to be think.  Like the stop with signing stop gap players.  Uh ok.  

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, 2020worldseries said:

I'd rather sign Lucroy to a 1/2 year deal

What

[UndertheHalo]

1 minute ago, 2020worldseries said:

I'd rather sign Lucroy to a 1/2 year deal then have Kruger slowly developed into the catcher of the future

Kruger may not be that though.  

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, 2020worldseries said:

I'd rather sign Lucroy to a 1/2 year deal then have Kruger slowly developed into the catcher of the future

So you'd rather sign a guy 3 years older to a deal one less year in length, a guy that is currently sporting a negative WAR this season instead of a guy on pace to have a 3 WAR season?  Makes perfect sense.  

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, UndertheHalo said:

Kruger may not be that though.  

But he wants him to slowly develop over the next 1 or 2 seasons.

[Warfarin]

12 minutes ago, 2020worldseries said:

So what are you saying? Sign Grandal so he can catch the next year or two and then DH in the future?

Why invest a large 4/5 year contract into someone who you are already questioning his ability to play his position in the future

sounds disastrous to me

Man, you're making some huge leaps in your assumptions.

No, I did not say that, either.  I said it is that there will be some diminishing returns at the end, but that if we sign him to say, a 4 year deal, you'll likely get a least two years of elite production out of him.  He is one of the top catchers in the game, and again, we have no significant prospects developing on that front, at least for now.  I do not expect him to be a DH at age 32.  I expect him to still be a very good catcher.  An elite, top 3 catcher?  I'm not so sure, but should still be a pretty good catcher.

Our FO wants to contend in 2019.  We have options to use at SP, relievers, etc.  We do not have any starting catchers currently.  As I said, you must look at the team on the whole.  It is okay to overpay in an area as long as you are selective and strategic about it. 

[Lou]

4 minutes ago, 2020worldseries said:

I'd rather sign Lucroy to a 1/2 year deal

1st half or 2nd half of the season?

[UndertheHalo]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

So you'd rather sign a guy 3 years older to a deal one less year in length, a guy that is currently sporting a negative WAR this season instead of a guy on pace to have a 3 WAR season?  Makes perfect sense.  

nothing is perfect.  Grandal like all FA comes with risk.  The Angels need a catcher.  Grandal is better then Lucroy, who may want more then a 1 year deal.  He is after all having a nice season.  Kruger is an extremely borderline "prospect" 

It doesn't make sense to me that the Angels should place a guy like him at the center of long term plans because he's the best that they've got.  This is exactly why teams look at FA.  Sometimes you don't have an internal answer.  At catcher, the Angels don't seem to.

Edited August 5, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[2020worldseries]

lol you guys are all right lets sign a 30 yo catcher to a 4 year 80 million contract and give up a draft pick