Ian Kinsler

[totdprods]

Since the first game of the Detroit series (21 games, 97 PA):
.307/.371/.659/1.030 with 7 doubles, 8 home runs, 8 walks, and only 4 strikeouts.  

Most impressive? Only a .250 BAbip in that time, so he's actually been a little unlucky.

A lot of indicators before this hot streak were hinting that he was close to breaking out, and a lot can go south still over the rest of the year, especially at his age, but at what point do you start considering if he's worth re-signing for a year this offseason?

He's closing in to exceeding last year's total WAR (2.1) as well...currently at 1.4, and almost all of that has come in the last 20 games.

[T.G.]

[Second Base]

7 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Since the first game of the Detroit series (21 games, 97 PA):
.307/.371/.659/1.030 with 7 doubles, 8 home runs, 8 walks, and only 4 strikeouts.  

Most impressive? Only a .250 BAbip in that time, so he's actually been a little unlucky.

A lot of indicators before this hot streak were hinting that he was close to breaking out, and a lot can go south still over the rest of the year, especially at his age, but at what point do you start considering if he's worth re-signing for a year this offseason?

He's closing in to exceeding last year's total WAR (2.1) as well...currently at 1.4, and almost all of that has come in the last 20 games.

I don't think I'd go as far as saying we need to re-up him immediately. But if he keeps this up through the end of the year, then yeah, I'd do a one year deal with an option.

[jordan]

I'd rather use the resources for 2019 on pitching, and 3B.   Move Cozart to 2B.

[stanick88]

I think we consider resigning him if he can continue playing well the whole season. Keep in mind, he was injured at the beginning of the year and that may have contributed to his slow start. Plus he had switched teams and had to move across the U.S. But if he can hit 270 the rest of the way with 335 on base % then that would be a success worth looking into resigning for another year. Especially if we can get a true lead off, he would slot in well behind Pujols. Or even have Trout bat lead off, followed by kinsler/simmons, Upton, pujols, simmons/kinsler. 

 

As much as I like trout in the two hole, that would lead to trout scoring so many more runs and being more of a threat on the base paths. 

[Angel Oracle]

9 minutes ago, True Grich said:

Mama says that's more like it, Ian!

[Dtwncbad]

I personally don't view Kinsler as a problem to fix.  At this point, he is as good a bet as anyone they could acquire to adequately handle the job for the rest of the season.

The problem to solve is OVERALL there are too many spots in the lineup that are either bad or "passable."

Typically is is OK to have a couple of passable spots provided the rest of the lineup is good.

Kinsler is trending up so I would just leave that alone.

Pujols isn't going anywhere.

3B and RF are the problems most wise to address.

RF--I believe the Angels should be aggressively in the market for a good RF.  The Angels have plenty of depth in minor league OF prospects to make a deal, to the degree that they can make a deal and probably still keep their top 2 OF prospects.

3B--One trade that sticks out as sensible is Kaleb Cowart for Moustakas.

I am not the biggest Moustakas fan but he certainly would solve 3B for the rest of the season.  He could also play some first or DH.  You dfa Valbuena.

When Cozart comes back, he either slots in front of Kinsler if Kinsler's momentum goes backwards, or he is the utility guy.

Cowart clearly is not someone Scioscia wants to play.  So let's accept reality and move him for someone we know Scioscia will put in the lineup.

Moustakas is in a walk year and it is believed he really wants to be an Angel.  He would likely work his butt off to prove he is worthy of a contract offer at the end of the year.  And if he gets a taste of being an Angel (provided the info on him wanting to be here is true) based on what he went through last offseason, not wanting to go through that again and not wanting to LEAVE the team he likes. . . it is projectable that he could be signed at a value contract.

If the Angels could land just a serviceable RF and grab Moustakas, the lineup is largely upgraded.

[eaterfan]

Would you make him a qualifying offer? I think there's a 70% chance he would take it. I think there's a 50% chance he lives up to the dollar amount, 25% chance he isn't close, and 25% he provides surplus value.

The Angels lose in only two situations, he takes the QO and is bad... or he takes the QO and plays worse than what Fletcher could provide even if he plays well. 

The Angels win if he takes the QO and plays well, or if he doesn't take it and signs somewhere else, or if he doesn't take it and pulls a Moose and pretty much has to sign with us for less because we're the only team who doesn't lose a draft pick. 

[T.G.]

2 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

When Cozart comes back, he either slots in front of Kinsler or he is the utility guy.
 

Cozart was activated and sent to SLC.

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, True Grich said:

Cozart was activated and sent to SLC.

I like Cozart.  But at this point he is going to have to convince the Angels he is part of a solution and not part of the problem.

And he doesn't have that much time to do it.

[T.G.]

I'm an idiot. I confused Cowart with Cozart.  Cowart was sent to SLC

[Torridd]

30 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Since the first game of the Detroit series (21 games, 97 PA):
.307/.371/.659/1.030 with 7 doubles, 8 home runs, 8 walks, and only 4 strikeouts.  

Most impressive? Only a .250 BAbip in that time, so he's actually been a little unlucky.

A lot of indicators before this hot streak were hinting that he was close to breaking out, and a lot can go south still over the rest of the year, especially at his age, but at what point do you start considering if he's worth re-signing for a year this offseason?

He's closing in to exceeding last year's total WAR (2.1) as well...currently at 1.4, and almost all of that has come in the last 20 games.

Between Cozart and Fletcher, I don't think we should go this route.

[jordan]

2 minutes ago, True Grich said:

I'm an idiot. I confused Cowart with Cozart.  Cowart was sent to SLC

Yeah I had heard that.  Thought you'd heard something about Cozart that I hadn't. 

[T.G.]

1 minute ago, jordan said:

Yeah I had heard that.  Thought you'd heard something about Cozart that I hadn't. 

I did, but it was just these voices in my head.

[Torridd]

14 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

Would you make him a qualifying offer? I think there's a 70% chance he would take it. I think there's a 50% chance he lives up to the dollar amount, 25% chance he isn't close, and 25% he provides surplus value.

The Angels lose in only two situations, he takes the QO and is bad... or he takes the QO and plays worse than what Fletcher could provide even if he plays well. 

The Angels win if he takes the QO and plays well, or if he doesn't take it and signs somewhere else, or if he doesn't take it and pulls a Moose and pretty much has to sign with us for less because we're the only team who doesn't lose a draft pick. 

No.

[Dtwncbad]

Calhoun Kaleb Kole Cowart Cozart.

Now if the Angels could just trade for Caleb Cotham. . . 

 

[totdprods]

31 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I am not the biggest Moustakas fan but he certainly would solve 3B for the rest of the season.  He could also play some first or DH.  You dfa Valbuena.

Moustakas in April:
.302/.336/.578/.914

Moustakas, since May/June:
.236/.309/.412/.721
 
He's cooling down, and certainly hitting better than Cozart, but I'm not sure I'd spend much in a trade for him at this point, especially being as far back as we are. He'd help, but I think I'd rather hold onto prospects, give that playing time to guys like JMF, Fletcher, even Cowart and Marte, possibly Ward and Thaiss, and use that to assess if we make an offer to him in the winter. 

I don't see a clear (affordable) way to improving the offense at this time, short of getting some of our AAA depth more ABs instead of Valbuena, Calhoun, Young, Cozart, etc. and think our pitching staff is more of a place to use trade currency - it feels like it's on thin ice. 

[UndertheHalo]

I honestly can’t believe I’m reading a re-sign Ian Kinsler thread. 

Get what we can from him this year.  It’s good that he’s been better.   Move on after that. 

[Dtwncbad]

27 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Moustakas in April:
.302/.336/.578/.914

Moustakas, since May/June:
.236/.309/.412/.721
 
He's cooling down, and certainly hitting better than Cozart, but I'm not sure I'd spend much in a trade for him at this point, especially being as far back as we are. He'd help, but I think I'd rather hold onto prospects, give that playing time to guys like JMF, Fletcher, even Cowart and Marte, possibly Ward and Thaiss, and use that to assess if we make an offer to him in the winter. 

I don't see a clear (affordable) way to improving the offense at this time, short of getting some of our AAA depth more ABs instead of Valbuena, Calhoun, Young, Cozart, etc. and think our pitching staff is more of a place to use trade currency - it feels like it's on thin ice. 

Your angle is fine.  Except do you think Mike Scioscia is going to put Kaleb Cowart in the lineup everyday to make that assessment possible?

Knowing MS, do you really think Thaiss and Ward are going to play?

These are the exact types of young players that get no chance with MS.

 

[DMVol]

1 hour ago, jordan said:

I'd rather use the resources for 2019 on pitching, and 3B.   Move Cozart to 2B.

Unless we pick it up in the next few weeks, I hope Kinsler keeps hitting and we trade him at the deadline....give Cozart or Fletcher a look at 2b before next year......

[Dtwncbad]

Regarding Thaiss, Hermosillo, Ward, Cowart, Fletcher, etc. . .

Remember the infamous attitude on replacing Nolan Ryan.

Having MORE "passable" players instead of fewer high impact players just doesn't work.

I am not here to specifically debate the ceiling of each developing player, everyone has their own opinion.

But I will say I do not want to hoard every player in the system and end up with a while lineup of marginal players.

The Angels definitely have a significant portion of their prospect population of players that don't project to be more than "passable" major leaguers.

Keep the studs.  Trade the lower ceiling guys for proven performers.

[jordan]

1 minute ago, DMVol said:

Unless we pick it up in the next few weeks, I hope Kinsler keeps hitting and we trade him at the deadline....give Cozart or Fletcher a look at 2b before next year......

This would definitely be a good option if things work out that way.  He could at least bring back a prospect that would fit into 20-30 of our group.  IMO.  But not sure what teams need a 2B.  Boston perhaps. 

[totdprods]

24 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Your angle is fine.  Except do you think Mike Scioscia is going to put Kaleb Cowart in the lineup everyday to make that assessment possible?

Knowing MS, do you really think Thaiss and Ward are going to play?

These are the exact types of young players that get no chance with MS.

I think Cowart is just about history, to be honest. I listed him more in the event some catastrophe (injuries, Fletcher traded, Angels 25 GB, etc.) leads to him being the last-man standing come mid-August. 

As for Ward and Thaiss...it'll be interesting. As I mentioned in the '2019 Prospect Problem' thread, because of the number of prospects we have top-to-bottom in the org and ready for MLB playing time soon, we're about to be in a position where Eppler will either have to deviate from his MO the last three years, or continue on a path that will start to irk some and lead to questions on what his future and the future of the Angels really is. 

He's got three paths: 
1) Use the deep farm and redundant prospects to trade for 'win-now' impact players 
Some precedent in Simmons and Upton (who was almost more of a FA acquisition) trades, but mostly, he's refused to trade anyone of any significance, no matter how pressing the MLB need was.
2) Play and rely on prospects at the MLB level 
Again, something we haven't seen Eppler do. We haven't had anyone really to play, but that hasn't stopped him from bringing in Maldonado, Rivera, or Graterol over Bandy or Perez, or Nick Franklin or Danny Espinosa over Cowart, or Valbuena over Cron, or Chris Young over Hermosillo. 
3) Continue the trend, and fill '19 holes with stopgap vets
This has been the plan up until now and it hasn't really worked well enough for us to get excited if it's the plan again - but going into next year, it's hard to argue this is the best (or most logical) course any more. Fletcher, Hermosillo, Fernandez, Ward, Thaiss, Suarez, and possibly Canning with Adell, Marsh, and Rengifo looming, will be ready for MLB play. 

It'll be interesting to see which route he goes during this deadline and offseason. He'll either go a route new to us as a fanbase, or stick to the same routine which will probably start causing some of pushback from some of the diehards, especially those who are ready for a change from the Sosh era. 

This is a good problem to have. I hope we see a deviation, and we see the team go into '19 with some of our prospects getting a shot at the onset, or we see him pull another major trade or two for long-term impact players.
 

[itsKnoppUitsme]

How much more would we like Kinsler if he batted in the 7-8-9 slot?

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Scotty@AW said:

I don't think I'd go as far as saying we need to re-up him immediately. But if he keeps this up through the end of the year, then yeah, I'd do a one year deal with an option.

I'd rather get rid of the guy a year too soon than a year too late.  He's done better but he is still not doing well .vs FBs...