What do you feel is management's plan?

[T.G.]

Baseball... and life in general rarely goes according to plan.

[Angelsfan1984]

3 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Why are you posting at all if you don’t want a response ? Basically you just want everyone to agree with you it sounds like. 

Please, I really want to hear how a manager can “work with what he has” and beat teams that are better.  And let’s be clear.  In this thought game, the manager in question has an inferior team.  Articulate how in baseball, over a 162 game season.  A manager works with what he has and beats better teams consistently enough to make the playoffs. 

I think you have zero grasp on what impact a manager actually has on a teams on the field performance.  Explain and prove me wrong. 

What happened yesterday? Ignoring you, you're incapable of rational thought.

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

I would have first brought one in well before the season started (so that's on Eppler). However, with the hand he was dealt I didn't need to see more than the first week of the season to know if I wanted to compete I didn't need to be putting Parker or Bedrosian in the 9th...As for the RF, when Calhoun couldn't bat his weight I would have made the move to bring someone up and actually give them the consistent opportunity that Calhoun was given or make a trade for just about anything.

And none of that is on Scioscia.  Dude you were the one that was pissed and calling out Scioscia for using Middleton at closer instead of Johnson, who is our worst guy in the pen not named Morris or Parades.   

[floplag]

53 minutes ago, The Boogie Man said:

It isn’t about what I think is a good idea, it is what I think they are doing.  If it were up to me, I probably wouldn’t move any valuable future piece for anything other than a piece to be used now and in the future.  The thread asked what I feel management’s plan is, I shared what I thought their plan is, not what I would do.  

Well, you are likely right in that sense, but if thats what they plan they have no plan as far as im concerned.  Hoping for a miracle isnt a plan. 

[Lou]

7 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

I would have first brought one in well before the season started (so that's on Eppler). However, with the hand he was dealt I didn't need to see more than the first week of the season to know if I wanted to compete I didn't need to be putting Parker or Bedrosian in the 9th...As for the RF, when Calhoun couldn't bat his weight I would have made the move to bring someone up and actually give them the consistent opportunity that Calhoun was given or make a trade for just about anything.

Middleton was the closer. 

which closer would you have acquired? how would you have acquired them? 

when exactly would you have decided Calhoun couldn't hit his weight? who would you have inserted into the lineup every day in his place?

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

Well, you are likely right in that sense, but if thats what they plan they have no plan as far as im concerned.  Hoping for a miracle isnt a plan. 

Being realistic is a plan.   If the team has too many holes to fill, why waste talent to fill some holes if it negatively affects the future.  

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

Middleton was the closer. 

which closer would you have acquired? how would you have acquired them? 

when exactly would you have decided Calhoun couldn't hit his weight? who would you have inserted into the lineup every day in his place?

Also he’s doing all this as the manager and not the GM.  

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, UndertheHalo said:

The Angels have guys at 3 positions that teams may consider good.  The rest are bad or are rookies and we don’t know.  

We also have what is it now ? 5 starting pitchers out of operation.  And our presumptive closer.  The Angels problems are obvious and in your face.  They’ve been the same problems for years.  You just want to assign blame to one place.  It’s dumb. 

I just want a season where not so many starting pitchers are DL'd, three straight seasons now?   The talent is there.   The health?   Nope

And also have even just back-to-back seasons of decent enough relief pitching, how long has it been for that?   The 2000s?  

[Ohtaniland]

Eppler at some point is going to have to make some serious decisions moving forward. He has to start transitioning from stop gap players and implement the long term solutions that will actually be here when Trout is on the clock. Please stop it with the Kinsler’s - Espinosa’s - Maybin’s - Blash’s - Young’s - Cozart’s and Valbuena’s.

Billy, if you want to be a serious contender you need to stop paying for remedy temps. Trout’s not going to wait until the ship sinks, he’s going to grab a lifeboat at some point. 

[JarsOfClay]

Just now, Angel Oracle said:

I just want a season where not so many starting pitchers are DL'd, three straight seasons now?   The talent is there.   The health?   Nope

Seriously, why haven't they found out what the problem is yet? Is it Nagy? Maldonado? The training staff?

And again no accountability. This organization is a complete mess from the top down.

[Angel Oracle]

5 minutes ago, OHTANILAND said:

Eppler at some point is going to have to make some serious decisions moving forward. He has to start transitioning from stop gap players and implement the long term solutions that will actually be here when Trout is on the clock. Please stop it with the Kinsler’s - Espinosa’s - Maybin’s - Blash’s - Young’s - Cozart’s and Valbuena’s.

Billy, if you want to be a serious contender you need to stop paying for remedy temps. Trout’s not going to wait until the ship sinks, he’s going to grab a lifeboat at some point. 

To be fair, Upton is a longer term fix and has vastly outplayed all Halos LFs since Matsui in 2010.   Maldonado, some questions about pitch framing aside, could well be another one if they re-sign him.

Right now, it's about getting a real bullpen and healthy starting pitchers, and seeing if Cold Calhoun can morph back into Kole Calhoun.

[Inside Pitch]

44 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

and yet the angels are in the top 5 in starting pitching ERA? You will justify just about anything to make sure the excuse train keeps on rolling.

Dude is talking about position players and you bring the starting rotation...   You aren't even trying to actually discuss anything -- you're looking for low hanging fruit and hoping nobody notices how completely inane your argument is.

The Angels SP ERA is a strength -- unfortunately it's supported by one of the weakest bullpens we have seen in MLB since those late 90s Mariner teams.  Somehow you also completely neglected to talk about how that low SP ERA comes with short starts -- and that it has to contend with poor run support more often than not.   

But yeah man -- you totally got that guy..   

49 minutes ago, The Boogie Man said:

It isn’t about what I think is a good idea, it is what I think they are doing.  If it were up to me, I probably wouldn’t move any valuable future piece for anything other than a piece to be used now and in the future.  The thread asked what I feel management’s plan is, I shared what I thought their plan is, not what I would do.  

I want them to play well because following a bad team is painful -- look no further than the nightly BP nightmare.   But, I'd welcome a sell off and for the team to call up Thaiss and company to get their feet wet now and have a better idea what they have or don't have moving into 2019.

46 minutes ago, Torridd said:

I'm just saying this is not all on the manager. The team itself is a mess. I don't think it's fair to assess his performance on what's happened with the injuries and the makeup of the roster.

I don't know if he was going with what the binder was telling him to do or whatever -- but last nights game was one of those times where it's hard not to put the blame squarely on him.   I agree it's not all on him like some try to make it, but I totally get why there would be some fires and pitchforks out after last night's game.  

What I do find funny is that you'd think games like last night would make the anti-MS club happy...   A few more of those and it increases the chances he won't be back.

[Angel Oracle]

1 minute ago, JarsOfClay said:

Seriously, why haven't they found out what the problem is yet? Is it Nagy? Maldonado? The training staff?

And again no accountability. This organization is a complete mess from the top down.

I wouldn't go that far.   It was when Dip*ssy quit.    Now, the farm is getting much stronger.   Just need the healthy rotation to pretty much stay that way finally, and to finally have a real bullpen for more than one year in a decade, something approaching how good it was in the 2000s.

[fan_since79]

1 minute ago, OHTANILAND said:

Eppler at some point is going to have to make some serious decisions moving forward. He has to start transitioning from stop gap players and implement the long term solutions that will actually be here when Trout is on the clock. Please stop it with the Kinsler’s - Espinosa’s - Maybin’s - Blash’s - Young’s - Cozart’s and Valbuena’s.

Billy, if you want to be a serious contender you need to stop paying for remedy temps. Trout’s not going to wait until the ship sinks, he’s going to grab a lifeboat at some point. 

If there were a 10,000 Likes button I would use it.

Trout might have a monument someday out there in Yankee Stadium with Ruth, Gehrig, and the rest if this team keeps sinking.

[UndertheHalo]

This is pretty easy actually. 

Angels roster make up: 

C; Maldanado - excellent defensively average for position with the bat (being generous) 

Bricero - Rookie, not noted by scouts.  Is 3rd on org chart but due to injuries is up.  Has played well in limited time. 

1b: Pujols - bad

Marte - bad

Fernandez - 30 y/o rookie who couldn’t hit lefties in the minors.  - unclear.  Hopefully good/decent.  Has been getting AB’s

2b/SS:  Simmons - excellent 

Kinsler - old and mostly bad

Fletcher - rookie that’s been up for 4 games.  Has gotten AB’s in 2.  Unheralded by scouts, but having a good year this year in the minors.  Seems like a high floor low ceiling type.  Probably projects as a utility player. 

Cowart - prospect whose opportunities are fading due to multiple years of failure in the minor leagues.  Has preformed better in minors recently.  Bat has not played at major league level. 

3b: Cozart - career utility player signed off of great year.  Has been bad.  

Valbuena - bad  

LF: Upton - Excellent 

CF: Trout - Legend

RF: Calhoun - arguably worst player in the league 

Young: bad 

Hermosillo: rookie, again not noted by scouts.  Appears to be high floor low ceiling probably 4th OF in career outlook. 

So, most of the team is shitty.  We have 3 good players and an adequate catcher.  It sucks that Cozart and Kinsler have been shitty. Maybe they’ll get better.  Kinsler has been better.  But im not holding my breath.  I think Seattle is over achieving and with improvements that have to come from the front office the Angels have a chance to get back into it.  None of that has anything to do with Scoiscia.  I do believe Scoiscia is a guy that can lead a good team to playoff success.  I’d like the Angels to looks at making moves the improve the team beyond 2018.  I’ve tempered my expectations that this year will be successful dramatically.  But, because I’m a fan, I’m hopeful that I’m surprised.  If all this makes me a Scoiscia nut swinger.  Whatever.  I’m fine with that. 

 

Edited June 18, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[JarsOfClay]

 

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I don't know if he was going with what the binder was telling him to do or whatever -- but last nights game was one of those times where it's hard not to put the blame squarely on him.   I agree it's not all on him like some try to make it, but I totally get why there would be some fires and pitchforks out after last night's game.  

What I do find funny is that you'd think games like last night would make the anti-MS club happy...   A few more of those and it increases the chances he won't be back.

Believe it or not the anit MS club wants the team to win as much as anyone else. And when you see a manager with 18 years experience make such a stupid mistake then it's going to upset a lot of people. Longest tenured manager and he takes out his best BP arm for one of his worst because he can't get over his lefty/righty OCD.  That's just incredibly stupid, not even a rookie manager would do something so catastrophically dumb.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

If there were a 10,000 Likes button I would use it.

Trout might have a monument someday out there in Yankee Stadium with Ruth, Gehrig, and the rest if this team keeps sinking.

The reason FS they are going with stop gaps is to acquire long term solutions you either have to develop them, which takes time, or you have to trade for them and they carry an expensive prospect cost.  So they sign these guys that won’t mortgage the future.  None of these guys are blocking anyone.  Bringing up a player too early can damage their development.  Now that we actually have a guy like Fletcher, I truly believe once we fall out of it, he will get a lot more playing time.  

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, JarsOfClay said:

Believe it or not the anit MS club wants the team to win as much as anyone else. And when you see a manager with 18 years experience make such a stupid mistake then it's going to upset a lot of people. Longest tenured manager and he takes out his best BP arm for one of his worst because he can't get over his lefty/righty OCD.  That's just incredibly stupid, not even a rookie manager would do something so catastrophically dumb.

You know whats funny.....   That righty lefty thing is something relatively new with him -- he's the guy that used to constantly argue that it didn't matter what arm they threw with so long as the pitchers could get people out.    Now people are ripping him for making the lefty/righty move -- but they have ripped him for leaving Alvarez in to face same handed batters too.   

I'd argue that this is one of those hindsight 20/20 things but -- dude brought in Bedrosian....   I'd sooner slam my dong with a car door repeatedly than bring Cam into any game that's on the line..    

[Angel Oracle]

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

You know whats funny.....   That righty lefty thing is something relatively new with him -- he's the guy that used to constantly argue that it didn't matter what arm they threw with so long as the pitchers could get people out.    Now people are ripping him for making the lefty/righty move -- but they have ripped him for leaving Alvarez in to face same handed batters too.   

I'd argue that this is one of those hindsight 20/20 things but -- dude brought in Bedrosian....   I'd sooner slam my dong with a car door repeatedly than bring Cam into any game that's on the line..    

I wish I could like this one multiple times.   Wasn't his dad Steve a lot stronger mentally on the mound?   I guess certain things truly can't be passed down.  

[UndertheHalo]

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

You know whats funny.....   That righty lefty thing is something relatively new with him -- he's the guy that used to constantly argue that it didn't matter what arm they threw with so long as the pitchers could get people out.    Now people are ripping him for making the lefty/righty move -- but they have ripped him for leaving Alvarez in to face same handed batters too.   

I'd argue that this is one of those hindsight 20/20 things but -- dude brought in Bedrosian....   I'd sooner slam my dong with a car door repeatedly than bring Cam into any game that's on the line..    

Yesterday the game was blown by the pen and Mike probably pressed the wrong buttons.  I’m not disputing that.  Just to be clear. 

[hangin n wangin]

Getting pretty sick of Cam shitting the Bedrosian.

[Lou]

I completely agree with IP

i'd sooner he slam his dong with a car door repeatedly than bring Cam into any game that's on the line. 

then again, I'm a team player. 

[floplag]

24 minutes ago, The Boogie Man said:

Being realistic is a plan.   If the team has too many holes to fill, why waste talent to fill some holes if it negatively affects the future.  

what too many holes?  This is nonsense?  If the pen was doing its job were in the race, end of story.  Any other hole is irrelevant to that fact.

[UndertheHalo]

31 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

What happened yesterday? Ignoring you, you're incapable of rational thought.

Be sure and ask Chuck how to find the button. 

[Inside Pitch]

7 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Yesterday the game was blown by the pen and Mike probably pressed the wrong buttons.  I’m not disputing that.  Just to be clear. 

I think everyone agrees with that regardless of whether they love, hate or are completely indifferent towards MS.