AngelsWin.com Today: Who's In Your Angels Legendary Lineup?

[stormngt]

18 minutes ago, Tank said:

bullcrap. this mythology that vaughn was a bad player for the angels is just pure crap and a lot of you need to just knock it off. here are his numbers, which are averages for the two years he played for us (he was injured for the entire third season he was here and then traded the next year):

avg/obp/slg/ops

277/362/503/865

25.5 db

34.5 hr

112.5 rbi

ops+ 117

i would absolutely take those numbers from pujols today without hesitation.

A lot of hatred for Vaughn was his quote after he was trades that Anaheim would never will never win.

[Tank]

6 minutes ago, stormngt said:

A lot of hatred for Vaughn was his quote after he was trades that Anaheim would never will never win.

and i agree that he deserved all the shade thrown on him for it. he sucked as a leader on the field and in the clubhouse and ran his mouth at times where it would have served him better to just shut up. he wore out his welcome here very quickly, both with fans and with players, and i think all of us were glad to see him hit the road. but there are still those amongst us who think he was a terrible player, and that just simply isn't true. that narrative needs to change.

[floplag]

Lackey deserves due, and i cant abide any list that doesnt include Baylor. 

[stormngt]

My lineup

Catcher Bob Boone

1b Rod Carew: maybe known better as a Twin but his contributions were with the Angel's were greater than Joyner.  A good argument for Erstad but he played primarily CF

2b. Bobby Grich

3b. Troy Glaus.  

SS Jim Fregosi give Simmons a few more years with his current production

RF Tim Salmon

CF. Trout: anyone who chooses anyone else should be banned

LF Brian Downing.  It really should be GA but he turned my son down for an autograph

DH Vladdy. Was going to put him in RF but that would knock out Salmon.  Basically I had to pick Salmon or Baylor.  Vladdy had to be picked regardless.  Chose Salmon because he helped win a WS and played his entire career with the Angel's and Baylor had a lot of success for a lot of teams, including 86 Boston who knocked out the Halos in ALCS

 

Starting Pitchers

1.  Ryan

2.  Tanana

3.  Finley

4.  Witt. Perfect game!

5. Chance

Relief Pitchers 

KROD, Percival, Sheilds, Harvey ,Donnelly

Bench

GA, Molina Figgins Erstad, Decinces

 

[stormngt]

12 minutes ago, Tank said:

and i agree that he deserved all the shade thrown on him for it. he sucked as a leader on the field and in the clubhouse and ran his mouth at times where it would have served him better to just shut up. he wore out his welcome here very quickly, both with fans and with players, and i think all of us were glad to see him hit the road. but there are still those amongst us who think he was a terrible player, and that just simply isn't true. that narrative needs to change.

Worn out his welcome quickly,  I was tired of him when he sprained his ankle on the first inning he played.

[stormngt]

6 minutes ago, floplag said:

Lackey deserves due, and i cant abide any list that doesnt include Baylor. 

You a choice of two among the three

Vladdy, Baylor, or Salmon? Which two do you pick?

[Angelsjunky]

51 minutes ago, Tank said:

bullcrap. this mythology that vaughn was a bad player for the angels is just pure crap and a lot of you need to just knock it off. here are his numbers, which are averages for the two years he played for us (he was injured for the entire third season he was here and then traded the next year):

avg/obp/slg/ops

277/362/503/865

25.5 db

34.5 hr

112.5 rbi

ops+ 117

i would absolutely take those numbers from pujols today without hesitation.

You misunderstand. When I said he was "Pujols before Pujols" I specifically mean that he was overpaid and underperformed relative to previous performance and expectations. Not as much as Pujols, but his Anaheim career was quite inferior to how he played in Boston. Compare:

Pujols as Cardinal: .328/.420/.617, 170 OPS+

Pujols as Angel: .261/.317/.458, 114 OPS+

Vaughn as Red Sock: .304/.394/.542, 140 OPS+ 

Vaughn as Angel: .276/.362/.503, 117 OPS+

So the difference isn't as great, but still striking. And one thing those numbers don't well express is that unlike Pujols, there was no sign of decline in Mo before becoming an Angel. During his last year on the Red Sox, he hit .337/.402/.591.

So yeah, Mo was pretty good on the Angels - but he wasn't the All-Star caliber player they thought they were bringing on.

[floplag]

22 minutes ago, stormngt said:

You a choice of two among the three

Vladdy, Baylor, or Salmon? Which two do you pick?

i wont make that choice, all belong, period. 

[stormngt]

4 minutes ago, floplag said:

i wont make that choice, all belong, period. 

That's the problem.  Unless your willing to place players in positions they never played you can't take all three.  You can only take two.  That is why Baylor is off my list.  

I guess I could put Vladdy in Right, Baylor at DH and put Salmon as backup outfielder and drop GA 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, stormngt said:

That's the problem.  Unless your willing to place players in positions they never played you can't take all three.  You can only take two.  That is why Baylor is off my list.  

I guess I could put Vladdy in Right, Baylor at DH and put Salmon as backup outfielder and drop GA 

Baylor played some left didn’t he?

[Angel Oracle]

10 minutes ago, SuperTroopers said:

Baylor played some left didn’t he?

In the 1979 MVP season, he played close to a combined 100 games in the corner OF spots, all but 20 of them in LF. 

1980 was the last season where he played mainly in the OF.   In 1981 and going forward, he mainly DH'd.

[stormngt]

9 minutes ago, SuperTroopers said:

Baylor played some left didn’t he?

I dont recall but that also means dropping Downing

[stormngt]

4 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

In the 1979 MVP season, he played close to a combined 100 games in the corner OF spots, all but 20 of them in LF. 

1980 was the last season where he played mainly in the OF.   In 1981 and going forward, he mainly DH'd.

Baylor v Downing

Baylor 6 season with MVP

Downing 13 seasons 

Baylor OPS + 118

Downing OPS + 126

I would still go with Downing.  Baylor maybe the more dominant player however I feel Downings contributions were greater, MVP not withstanding.

[floplag]

22 minutes ago, stormngt said:

That's the problem.  Unless your willing to place players in positions they never played you can't take all three.  You can only take two.  That is why Baylor is off my list.  

I guess I could put Vladdy in Right, Baylor at DH and put Salmon as backup outfielder and drop GA 

If thats what necessary yes.  Nothing against GA, but those 3 make it before him in my book. 

[stormngt]

Just now, floplag said:

If thats what necessary yes.  Nothing against GA, but those 3 make it before him in my book. 

I am not sure with that one either.  GA played 17 seasons with the Angels with OPS of 796 with ops + 108.  In addition AS MVP, and world championship.

Baylor with OPS 777.  OPS +118.  Baylor played six seasons as an Angel out of his 19 year career.  GA played 15 years of his 17 year career.  Baylor's played eight years after an Angel.  

Not necessarily saying GA is better player than Baylor but there is a good argument GA contributed more as an Angel.  GA was an 3x All Star.  Baylor was an all star just once.  

Outfield/DH is the hardest position to narrow down the cut. 

 

[Erstad Grit]

Lack of love for Langston, Chili Davis, and Edmonds

[Stradling]

9 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

Lack of love for Langston, Chili Davis, and Edmonds

Yes.   Of the three only Edmonds registers as a possibility.  

[Dick B Back]

3 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Yeah, I get it. But the numbers tell us that Fregosi was the greatest Angels shortstop of all time, and it isn't particularly close. Right now. Give Andrelton another 4-5 years and there might be a good argument.

 

Picking Simmons over Fregosi at this moment is like picking Justin Anderson for the BP because he has a 0.00 ERA.

[stormngt]

45 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

Lack of love for Langston, Chili Davis, and Edmonds

There is an argument for Langston.  How long did Davis play for the Angel's.  Edmonds was a great player but he was a center fielder.  Should his four full seasons with the Angels be enough to push Trout to the bench?  Plus he really left the Angel's on a sour note.  Finally what great contribution did he have for the Angels? He was ROY only one All Star appearance.  Did not lead the team to any division titles.   His trade may have been the greatest contribution as an Angel.  We got Kennedy and his 3 HRs against the Twins in 02 ALCS 

[GrittyVeterans]

Grich 2B

Trout CF

Vlad RF

Salmon DH

Baylor LF

Glaus 3B

Carew 1B

Downing C

Simmons SS

 

Nolan Ryan

Mike Witt

Frank Tanana

Chuck Finley

John Lackey

Jered Weaver

 

Percival, K-Rod, Scot Shields

[Lou]

1 hour ago, Dick B Back said:

Picking Simmons over Fregosi at this moment is like picking Justin Anderson for the BP because he has a 0.00 ERA.

No, it's not.

[Lou]

4 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

My List would be:

1B Rod Carew

2B Bobby Grich

SS Jim Fregosi

3B Troy Glaus

LF Brian Downing

CF Mike Trout

RF Tim Salmon

DH Vlad Guerrero

(I choose Vlad at DH over Salmon because he DHed more)

Rotation: Nolan Ryan, Chuck Finley, Frank Tanana, Mike Witt, Jered Weaver (honorable mentions: John Lackey, Dean Chance)

Bullpen:  Troy Percival, Francisco Rodriguez, Scot Shields, Brian Harvey, Brendan Donnelly, and not sure...maybe Mark Eichhorn?

If my team is playing against that lineup, I'm giving every player the green light on the basepaths 

[Dick B Back]

31 minutes ago, Lou said:

No, it's not.

Your opinion vs mine. Simmons has played about 300 games for the Angels, so we can agree to disagree.

[Lou]

14 hours ago, Dick B Back said:

Your opinion vs mine. Simmons has played about 300 games for the Angels, so we can agree to disagree.

I don't think that's allowed here. 

In seasons Fregosi started more than 100 games, he averaged 26 errors/yr. ( he also committed 22 errors during his final season here when he started 73 games)

Simmons has committed 27 since he's been here. 

[Dave Saltzer]

18 hours ago, floplag said:

i wont make that choice, all belong, period. 

Ahhh . . . but that's the challenge. Now you know why it's a difficult problem. As I said, it's painful. You will have to make some difficult choices and compromises. So, who are you going to cut from that group?