Justin Verlander HOF?

[Stradling]

Is Justin Verlander a Hall of Fame pitcher, I would think he is.   Sure feels like he’s been great for a long time.  I know he’s had a couple of down years, but he’s had prolonged greatness.   I don’t follow this as closely as some of you do, tell me what you think.  If he pitches two more years after this he could get to 230-240 wins.  Has an ERA+ of 125.   He will be close to 3000 strike outs, has a couple no hitters.   

[Dick B Back]

Right now I’d say he’s borderline. He’s got 6 All Star selections RoY, Cy Young award, MVP and a ring.

The days of 300 wins for a selection are gone so who knows.

[Lou]

Yes

[Troll Daddy]

16 minutes ago, Dick B Back said:

Right now I’d say he’s borderline. He’s got 6 All Star selections RoY, Cy Young award, MVP and a ring.

The days of 300 wins for a selection are gone so who knows.

Let’s not forget he got Kate Upton too

[JustATroutFan]

Yeah, I would say so. He's been great for a long time. A couple of bad seasons won't ruin his HOF case. And he probably should have won another Cy Young in his career but was robbed instead. Should have won the Cy Young that year but East Coast Bias folks cost Verlander that one. 

[eaterfan]

I hope so. It's so hard for pitchers to get in today, but in my book he is a Hall of Famer. I'm not a big Hall guy, either. 

Unless I'm forgetting someone he has been the second best pitcher of the post Maddux, Clemens, Johnson era behind only Kershaw. He should be in.

[GrittyVeterans]

He's a lock. been a top 5 pitcher in the AL for like a decade

[Erstad Grit]

I say yes

[Inside Pitch]

13 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

I hope so. It's so hard for pitchers to get in today, but in my book he is a Hall of Famer. I'm not a big Hall guy, either. 

Unless I'm forgetting someone he has been the second best pitcher of the post Maddux, Clemens, Johnson era behind only Kershaw. He should be in.

Scherzer...  3 Cys -- and still extremely dominant.

Crazy part of that era -- you didn't even mention Schilling, Mussina, or Pedro...

Now that his career is seemingly over -- you look at John Lackey and dude had one heck of a quality career.   Outside of his 2011 season the guy was as rock solid a second tier guy as you could find.  

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Inside Pitch

[JustATroutFan]

Halladay's the second best pitcher behind Kershaw since the post Maddux, Johnson, and Clemens era. More great seasons than Verlander up to this point. 

[Adam]

He's a lock. 1st ballot 

[eaterfan]

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Crazy part of that era -- you didn't even mention Schilling, Mussina, or Pedro...

Now that his career is seemingly over -- you look at John Lackey and dude had one heck of a quality career.   Outside of his 2011 season the guy was as rock solid a second tier guy as you could find.  

 

There were some great pitchers of that era. I totally forgot Pedro, but IMO he was just a tick below the 3 I mentioned because of the lack of longevity. I thought about Schilling and Mussina, but IMO I think Verlander is better than those guys and they are a level or two below the big three and Pedro. Those guys are in the conversation for best ever. 

[eaterfan]

7 minutes ago, JustATroutFan said:

Halladay's the second best pitcher behind Kershaw since the post Maddux, Johnson, and Clemens era. More great seasons than Verlander up to this point. 

I thought about Halladay as well. I think he and Verlander are pretty even. Halladay has the longevity, but I think Verlander will get there and I think I like the peak of Verlander a bit more.

[Angel Oracle]

6 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

There were some great pitchers of that era. I totally forgot Pedro, but IMO he was just a tick below the 3 I mentioned because of the lack of longevity. I thought about Schilling and Mussina, but IMO I think Verlander is better than those guys and they are a level or two below the big three and Pedro. Those guys are in the conversation for best ever. 

Pedro did have two of the greatest pitching seasons ever in 1999 and 2000.   ERA was so far under the AL average, it wasn't funny; and his Ks/BBs were ridiculous.

[Adam]

Verlander is probably going to win 18-22 games and another WS this year too

[Ohtaniland]

1 minute ago, Adam said:

Verlander is probably going to win 18-22 games and another WS this year too

this ^^^^

[wopphil]

My first thought was Mussina as well. Almost identical ERA+ to Verlander, but 1,000 more innings and 78 more career wins, and he is not in the HOF (though he clearly should be and soon will be). Verlander is borderline at this point - he needs at least three more very good seasons.

[GrittyVeterans]

The fact that Mussina isn't in is really embarrassing for the people that vote. He was top 6 in Cy Young voting 9 times in his career. 9.

[Inside Pitch]

40 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

There were some great pitchers of that era. I totally forgot Pedro, but IMO he was just a tick below the 3 I mentioned because of the lack of longevity. I thought about Schilling and Mussina, but IMO I think Verlander is better than those guys and they are a level or two below the big three and Pedro. Those guys are in the conversation for best ever. 

Mussina is both underrated and overrated -- he was never the best pitcher in the league in part because of the RJ's Pedro's and Clemen's of the era..  but if those guys were Aces, then Mussiina was an Ace lite...   It's funny because in his second season he put up an 8 WAR year and finished 4th for the Cy Young behind Eckersley, Blackjack McDowell, and Clemens.   

He wasn't a Sutton like compiler but he was one of those guys who's peak just wasn't as pronounced as the typical elite pitcher... This is where guys like Verlander and Halladay come across as better.  Still, he pitched the entirety of his career in the AL East during the live ball era and in some of the most offensive minded parks of the era...    At 83.0 bWAR he ranks 29th all time...   He ranks 20th all time in Ks and it wasn't like he just hung around forever, he's only 66th on the all time IP list.   Guy had 5 WAR seasons at ages 37 and 39...   He was consistently very very good.

He was remarkably consistent, and I think over time it's blurred the fact that he was quietly dominant as the K total shows.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Inside Pitch

[eaterfan]

8 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Mussina is both underrated and overrated -- he was never the best pitcher in the league in part because of the RJ's Pedro's and Clemen's of the era..  but if those guys were Aces, then Mussiina was an Ace lite...   It's funny because in his second season he put up an 8 WAR year and finished 4th for the Cy Young behind Eckersley, Blackjack McDowell, and Clemens.   

He wasn't a Sutton like compiler but he was one of those guys who's peak just wasn't as pronounced as the typical elite pitcher... This is where guys like Verlander and Halladay come across as better.  Still, he pitched the entirety of his career in the AL East during the live ball era and in some of the most offensive minded parks of the era...    At 83.0 bWAR he ranks 29th all time...   His ranks 20th all time in Ks and it wasn't like he just hung around forever, he's 66th on the all time IP list.   Guy had 5 WAR seasons at ages 37 and 39...   He was consistently very very good.

He was remarkably consistent, and I think over time it's blurred the fact that he was quietly dominant as the K total shows.

Both Moose and Schilling should be in the Hall.

[Torridd]

1 hour ago, Dick B Back said:

Right now I’d say he’s borderline. He’s got 6 All Star selections RoY, Cy Young award, MVP and a ring.

The days of 300 wins for a selection are gone so who knows.

Uh, he has all that already and he's borderline?

[Tank]

fwiw, he's also had two no-hitters and seems on the verge of another one sometime soon. he's a dominant pitcher and shouldn't have any questions about getting in on the first ballot.

[Lou]

Pedro. 

Beast. 

[Angel Oracle]

7 minutes ago, Lou said:

Pedro. 

Beast. 

Changeup may have been the best ever.   That along with mid 90s heat with movement and rock solid slider = BEAST.  

[Dick B Back]

4 hours ago, Torridd said:

Uh, he has all that already and he's borderline?

Sure, based on past selections/non-sections.