The Official 2018 Minor League Statline and Prospect Discussion Thread

[Blarg]

Like Pujols threads, you give a guy enough crap and he gets a hit and an rbi. Bobby B is now hitting .100.

[Second Base]

44 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Baldwin was personally scouted by the smartest man in the room.   He's not someone that's gonna need a lot of time, just needs at bats....  

Ah, the memories.....

That's mostly still true. 

1. When Jerry Dipoto is in a room with Scott Servais, he's the smartest man in the room. 

2. Not sure they ever clarified how many AB's he needs.  Bobby B just needs AB's. He's only had 1,000 so far.  Give him 3,000-4,000 more and he should be major league ready.....as a reserve utility infielder.  Not a utility infielder (who's really just a back up), but the utility infielder's back up.  The back up's back up.  He should be ready for that role by the time he's 32.  That's pretty old for a prospect, but we can just blame it on the year of action he lost when getting off the island. 

[Inside Pitch]

19 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

That's mostly still true. 

1. When Jerry Dipoto is in a room with Scott Servais, he's the smartest man in the room. 

2. Not sure they ever clarified how many AB's he needs.  Bobby B just needs AB's. He's only had 1,000 so far.  Give him 3,000-4,000 more and he should be major league ready.....as a reserve utility infielder.  Not a utility infielder (who's really just a back up), but the utility infielder's back up.  The back up's back up.  He should be ready for that role by the time he's 32.  That's pretty old for a prospect, but we can just blame it on the year of action he lost when getting off the island. 

I'm not sure where you stand when it comes to JD, but the Baldoquin deal and subsequent loss of Vlad Jr seems to have been for many, a sort of wake up call that maybe he wasn't a JeDi afterall.  Missing out on Vlad Jr ranks right there with the decision to let Ryan leave as a FA as the all time biggest mistakes in franchise history imo....

On the plus side, so long as those two guys are in Seattle there is still the possibility the Angels will benefit.

[Blarg]

I asked and Jones explained he's wearing the Skippers jersey today. 

Today's announced attendence 504 baseball fans.

[Blarg]

Jones just cracked a run scoring double. It's now 15 - 2 Solar Sox over the Saguaros.

[Blarg]

Now Bolt from the Athletics blasted a three run shot over deep center field for an 18 - 2 lead. No mercy rule in place.

[Docwaukee]

13 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I'm not sure where you stand when it comes to JD, but the Baldoquin deal and subsequent loss of Vlad Jr seems to have been for many, a sort of wake up call that maybe he wasn't a JeDi afterall.  Missing out on Vlad Jr ranks right there with the decision to let Ryan leave as a FA as the all time biggest mistakes in franchise history imo....

On the plus side, so long as those two guys are in Seattle there is still the possibility the Angels will benefit.

I was a Dipoto disciple early on.  At the time he was hired, we were coming off of Reagins who was clearly swimming with sharks.  Jerry came in with his easy words and said all the right things.  His first order of business was to fire Hatcher which I agreed with.  Then came super signing day with Pujols, Wilson etc.  I also thought the Iannetta acquisition was solid not realizing what he intended to do with the farm system.  Then he added Greinke and I started to scratch my head a bit.   Then came Blanton.  Then Hamilton which seemed like an a move Arte really pushed for (which I still believe was true).  Then Hanson.  Then the Freese deal which I thought was dumb.  But I liked the Trumbo deal.  It prior to 2014 when I also started to notice the farm system decimation and that every last resource was going to the mlb club.  Then we added Street and Pestano.  I hated our draft strategy from probably about 2013 when I realized that none of the players drafted in the previous two seasons were amounting to jack squat.  But then we rocked a 98 win season which hides a lot of deficiencies.  I didn't really understand the true carnage until 2015 and I even defended him walking out to some degree in that I felt Arte was as much at fault for creating an atypical dynamic as it relates to GM/Manager.  

Only a short time after he quit did I really start to look at his body of work and add up what he'd done.  So I was a little late the party in that regard.  

I feel like I'm a little more guarded and objective about Eppler at this point.  

[Chris]

Jerry Dipoto = 100% Grade A Snake Oil Salesman

[Angel Oracle]

Dipoto = trying to make people think he's baseball smart.  

[Second Base]

8 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I was a Dipoto disciple early on.  At the time he was hired, we were coming off of Reagins who was clearly swimming with sharks.  Jerry came in with his easy words and said all the right things.  His first order of business was to fire Hatcher which I agreed with.  Then came super signing day with Pujols, Wilson etc.  I also thought the Iannetta acquisition was solid not realizing what he intended to do with the farm system.  Then he added Greinke and I started to scratch my head a bit.   Then came Blanton.  Then Hamilton which seemed like an a move Arte really pushed for (which I still believe was true).  Then Hanson.  Then the Freese deal which I thought was dumb.  But I liked the Trumbo deal.  It prior to 2014 when I also started to notice the farm system decimation and that every last resource was going to the mlb club.  Then we added Street and Pestano.  I hated our draft strategy from probably about 2013 when I realized that none of the players drafted in the previous two seasons were amounting to jack squat.  But then we rocked a 98 win season which hides a lot of deficiencies.  I didn't really understand the true carnage until 2015 and I even defended him walking out to some degree in that I felt Arte was as much at fault for creating an atypical dynamic as it relates to GM/Manager.  

Only a short time after he quit did I really start to look at his body of work and add up what he'd done.  So I was a little late the party in that regard.  

I feel like I'm a little more guarded and objective about Eppler at this point.  

Not sure I really have a timeline on my feelings about Dipoto. I know I wasn't a fan of his draft strategy from the very beginning. I was still sour over Eddie Bane being let go by Reagins, then the subsequent failure that was the 2010 draft. That many top picks and every single last one of them was a terrible pick, but the drafts were just awful under Dipoto too. 

I was also highly critical of the Angels lack of international presence, but I didn't blame Dipoto for this, just the scandal itself. Hindsight makes me realize that while the scandal did play a role, Dipoto's willingness to ignore that part of the world and trade away our slot money was as philosophically poor as you could get.

I was definitely defending him when he walked out on the team, but looking back on it now, that was the best thing that could've happened. I'm surprised he wasn't fired before that. It was hard to see when you're in the middle of it, but the free agent deals, payroll being out of control, building a losing team, destroying the farm then salting the earth with his draft and international strategy and preventing anything from being produced in the minors....

Hard to picture how much worse you could do as a GM.

It's surprising Mariner fans aren't seeing the same thing. They're generally quite receptive and optimistic about the direction of the team right now. But a closer look and you see he's done the same thing. Higher payroll, still not a playoff team, has absolutely destroyed their minor league system and his trademark drafts and international approach have eliminated the possibility of a reversal. 

Eppler on the other hand, I think we all have a more realistic approach to what he's doing. There's no doubt that he's done a better job of rebuilding the farm than anyone could've imagined. Everything from trading for prospects, the drafts, and a huge boon in international presence. And he's done an outstanding job at getting their payroll under control as well. He has his strength and weaknesses in team building, just like anyone else. His ability to unearth quality pitchers may be without equal, but he's shown what I think is a clear lack of ability in identifying and acquiring quality position players. 

[Blarg]

Justin Garza pitching for the Desert Dogs looks pretty composed and in control of his pitches. At only 5'10" he's a little small for a pitcher these days but his fastball is a crisp 93. So far that is his pitch along with a 91 mph fastball. Finally in the 3rd he threw an 88 mph breaker. Then went back to his fastball. Coach should call something else from the dugout.

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

6 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

I'm not sure where you stand when it comes to JD, but the Baldoquin deal and subsequent loss of Vlad Jr seems to have been for many, a sort of wake up call that maybe he wasn't a JeDi afterall.  Missing out on Vlad Jr ranks right there with the decision to let Ryan leave as a FA as the all time biggest mistakes in franchise history imo....

On the plus side, so long as those two guys are in Seattle there is still the possibility the Angels will benefit.

Prior to vlad jr being drafted, was he a pretty well known guy in scouting circles? Or more just vlads kid?

[ten ocho recon scout]

I was team dipoto when he was here. We seemed to be so far behind the curve in terms of sabr that it felt like we finally had a guy who was up to date.

He looked out for a few friends of mine, so coupled with his emphasis on stats i liked him. I felt like he got screwed when he bailed.

But i also knew the team didnt really like him. And in time seeing how bad the farm had become, it became clear i was an idiot.

First sign of doubt was the bullpen... a solid one in 12 would have worked wonders and won the division. Then we ignored it in 13. And 14. We finally built one the 2cd half of 14 and were back on top.

Then the 14 offseason came and we broke it up....

[Blarg]

So tonight's game was a shutout for 9 innings. The Desert Dogs pushed across a run in the top of the tenth for the lead. 

Then the Rafters get two men on a couple of singles. Next batter sacrifices them over to 2nd and 3rd. An intentional is issued to setup a double play then a pitching change. 

New pitcher induces a double play but the 2nd baseman can't get the ball out of his glove cleanly and his throw is wide and late, the run scores, runners 1st and 3rd.

Next batter never even sees a pitch, the 1st base umpire class balk and the game is over. 

[Inside Pitch]

32 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I was a Dipoto disciple early on.  At the time he was hired, we were coming off of Reagins who was clearly swimming with sharks.  Jerry came in with his easy words and said all the right things.  His first order of business was to fire Hatcher which I agreed with.  Then came super signing day with Pujols, Wilson etc.  I also thought the Iannetta acquisition was solid not realizing what he intended to do with the farm system.  Then he added Greinke and I started to scratch my head a bit.   Then came Blanton.  Then Hamilton which seemed like an a move Arte really pushed for (which I still believe was true).  Then Hanson.  Then the Freese deal which I thought was dumb.  But I liked the Trumbo deal.  It prior to 2014 when I also started to notice the farm system decimation and that every last resource was going to the mlb club.  Then we added Street and Pestano.  I hated our draft strategy from probably about 2013 when I realized that none of the players drafted in the previous two seasons were amounting to jack squat.  But then we rocked a 98 win season which hides a lot of deficiencies.  I didn't really understand the true carnage until 2015 and I even defended him walking out to some degree in that I felt Arte was as much at fault for creating an atypical dynamic as it relates to GM/Manager.  

Only a short time after he quit did I really start to look at his body of work and add up what he'd done.  So I was a little late the party in that regard.  

I feel like I'm a little more guarded and objective about Eppler at this point.  

Point blank -- I will never cast shade on anyone that jumped on the Jerry love train early on.   Dude came in flashing a smile and a SABR card -- he said all the right things, he spoke of saber-principles and generally presented what I believed was the ideal makeup for a contending club -- age windows, zone control on both sides, and a nod towards defense.   The things he said were all the things many of us had been wanting to hear from an Angels GM....   The fact that he didn't actually follow through on them sucks.

[Inside Pitch]

38 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Prior to vlad jr being drafted, was he a pretty well known guy in scouting circles? Or more just vlads kid?

He was known the way Prince Fielder was known...  

[tdawg87]

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

He was known the way Prince Fielder was known...  

For being a fatty?

[arch stanton]

44 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

For being a fatty?

A fatty who can hit

[Docwaukee]

2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Point blank -- I will never cast shade on anyone that jumped on the Jerry love train early on.   Dude came in flashing a smile and a SABR card -- he said all the right things, he spoke of saber-principles and generally presented what I believed was the ideal makeup for a contending club -- age windows, zone control on both sides, and a nod towards defense.   The things he said were all the things many of us had been wanting to hear from an Angels GM....   The fact that he didn't actually follow through on them sucks.

For me it wasn't his follow through, but his draft strategy.  The high floor thing was a killer.  To his defense, he just wasn't allowed to totally enact his true vision which ended up working in our favor.  He was a locust.  He's just too focused on the major league club.  Major league teams can't live year to year.  

[Inside Pitch]

7 hours ago, Dochalo said:

For me it wasn't his follow through, but his draft strategy.  The high floor thing was a killer.  To his defense, he just wasn't allowed to totally enact his true vision which ended up working in our favor.  He was a locust.  He's just too focused on the major league club.  Major league teams can't live year to year.  

Oh it was everything...  I just didn't want to belabor the point, I ranted enough while it was happening, I was an early and constant critic...  But it was clear early on that what he said rarely matched up to what he would actually do.

His decimation of the farm system was the one thing I always argued was entirely on him, his scouts, and his draft strategies....  In fact it was his purge of the scouting department that sort of killed it for me....  Almost all of the guys he fired were insta-hired by the Red Sox and Yankees two forward thinking franchises who then saw their systems infused with talent.... I understood he wanted his guys in there but the wholesale gutting of what had been considered one of MLB's better scouting departments was to me an indication of his budding meglomania. As was his edict that the MLB staff would have no say in how players would be developed.  

Its funny you say he wasn't allowed to innact his true vision because I remember people arguing that his drafting and trades were a result of some sort of mandate from Arte, that he was under direction to make sure the MLB stayed competitive enough to fill the stadium.... A narrative that gave birth to a million " 3 mil attendance" posts....  But everything he did made it clear it was his singular vision.  Thus my starting with the "Teflon Jerry" rants....

Fast forward to his time in Seattle and it's become pretty clear who Dipoto is, what he values, and how he operates.  He will have his successes and he will talk them up endlessly, but it will come at a cost and the losses will outnumber the gains.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Inside Pitch

[stormngt]

10 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Prior to vlad jr being drafted, was he a pretty well known guy in scouting circles? Or more just vlads kid?

Vlad jr was never drafted.  Didnt he sign as a FA?

[Second Base]

8 hours ago, Dochalo said:

For me it wasn't his follow through, but his draft strategy.  The high floor thing was a killer.  To his defense, he just wasn't allowed to totally enact his true vision which ended up working in our favor.  He was a locust.  He's just too focused on the major league club.  Major league teams can't live year to year.  

The lack of international presence was almost as damning as the draft strategy.

I'm not mad at Baldoquin for not working out as much as I'm mad at Dipoto for putting all his eggs into that one single basket.   Even if you deploy that strategy, you do it for someone that's a star in the making, the way the Jays did for Vlad, or the Braves did with Maitan.  

Even the most optimistic of reports only tabbed Baldoquin as a average starting 2B/SS in the major leagues.  That's just not the sort of player you wager it all on. Not even close.  And then once the restrictions were in place, Dipoto never even approached 300k on multiple players.  In fact he spent the rest of his time trading those slots away. 

 

[Inside Pitch]

16 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Prior to vlad jr being drafted, was he a pretty well known guy in scouting circles? Or more just vlads kid?

Here you go Bro -- pretty timely article..  https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/vladimir-guerrero-jr-is-the-2018-minor-league-player-of-the-year/

“Sometimes, he played against kids his age, but sometimes he would play against older people,” Wilton said. “When he was 12 years old, he faced kids who were 15, 17 years old. At 13, he would play against people who were 25.”

[ten ocho recon scout]

20 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Here you go Bro -- pretty timely article..  https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/vladimir-guerrero-jr-is-the-2018-minor-league-player-of-the-year/

“Sometimes, he played against kids his age, but sometimes he would play against older people,” Wilton said. “When he was 12 years old, he faced kids who were 15, 17 years old. At 13, he would play against people who were 25.”

Sounds about right.

If anything, Im still blown away jr wasnt on the radar just out of respect for his dad. Moreno had to know the kid personally...

I was at the stadium for Vlad night a few months back. Ended up running into an old friend who got me into Vlad's suite for a bit. (Vlad bailed pretty early into the game, it was mostly just his friends/family). But you could tell vlad and the org are still very close. Guys like jose mota were talking to vlads 3rd cousins (or maybe 11th sons) like old friends. 

So it baffles me moreno wasnt pushing to sign the kid simply out of respect.

[Inside Pitch]

28 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Sounds about right.

If anything, Im still blown away jr wasnt on the radar just out of respect for his dad. Moreno had to know the kid personally...

I was at the stadium for Vlad night a few months back. Ended up running into an old friend who got me into Vlad's suite for a bit. (Vlad bailed pretty early into the game, it was mostly just his friends/family). But you could tell vlad and the org are still very close. Guys like jose mota were talking to vlads 3rd cousins (or maybe 11th sons) like old friends. 

So it baffles me moreno wasnt pushing to sign the kid simply out of respect.

They couldn't....    When Jerry signed Baldo, he locked them out of the Vladdy sweepstakes.   By most accounts the previous regime was on Vladdy Jr..   But the purge came and Dipoto personally scouted Baldoquin....    Thus ended the dream.