The Official 2018 Minor League Statline and Prospect Discussion Thread

[tdawg87]

It's amazing how much Vlad Jr. would have fit so perfectly into our future. Not to mention giving Trout another star to play along side with.

If Dipoto gets AIDS I'll throw a party.

[Angelsjunky]

2 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

It's amazing how much Vlad Jr. would have fit so perfectly into our future. Not to mention giving Trout another star to play along side with.

If Dipoto gets AIDS I'll throw a party.

Or maybe if you throw a party and invite Dipoto, he'll get AIDS.

[tdawg87]

2 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Or maybe if you throw a party and invite Dipoto, he'll get AIDS.

Only if we have sex.

[Angelsjunky]

I like how my post was deleted but your post in which you say you want Dipoto to get AIDS remains. I'm wondering what the thought process that went into that decision was.

[tdawg87]

Your post is literally right there. I just gave it a like.

 

Idiot.

[Angelsjunky]

Weird. It wasn't there for a moment ago - it was just your original AIDS one, then your reply.

But yes, I am an idiot.

[tdawg87]

At least you have come to terms with it. For some of us, it's much more difficult.

[Angelsjunky]

Just now, tdawg87 said:

At least you have come to terms with it. For some of us, it's much more difficult.

I guess the huge amount of debt I have for that Master's in clinical mental health counseling is worth something.

I guess.

[tdawg87]

Depends if you got it at USC.

[Second Base]

I learned a new comp for Jo Adell today.

Starling Marte.

The numbers don't match up, Marte steals more bags and Adell for more power, but the skill set actually matches up quite well when you think about it.  Adell could steal bases like Marte if pressed to do so, and Marte is deceivingly strong. His homeruns aren't cheap at all. Both are pretty aggressive at the plate, but not so much so that it becomes a big problem, like with Randal Grichuk.

So that brings his comps to Torii Hunter, Matt Kemp and Starling Marte.

I don't think I've seen him compared with anyone that isn't a star or wasn't a star at any point. 

[Angelsjunky]

How about Justin Upton.

Or for old timers, Dave Winfield or Andre Dawson.

[arch stanton]

Dawson before Olympic Stadium killed his knees or Eric Davis before the lacerated kidney in the WS

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Scotty@AW said:

I learned a new comp for Jo Adell today.

Starling Marte.

The numbers don't match up, Marte steals more bags and Adell for more power, but the skill set actually matches up quite well when you think about it.  Adell could steal bases like Marte if pressed to do so, and Marte is deceivingly strong. His homeruns aren't cheap at all. Both are pretty aggressive at the plate, but not so much so that it becomes a big problem, like with Randal Grichuk.

So that brings his comps to Torii Hunter, Matt Kemp and Starling Marte.

I don't think I've seen him compared with anyone that isn't a star or wasn't a star at any point. 

not sure I like that comp too much.   

don't really love the Hunter comp either.   He was premium defender first that developed into a solid hitter with good not great power.  

Adell turned 19 in April and hit 20 hrs over three levels while still maintaining respectable peripherals and a very good hit tool at A/A+. 

But that's more early power than any of those comps sans kemp.  

He's one of the top 10 position player prospects in baseball and when you look at his age matched performance relative to those other guys, he's probably in the top 5.  Couple that with his ceiling and he's probably 2 or 3.  

Is he Vlad Jr?  No.  (while I'd still love to have him and still shake my head about not getting him, he's gonna have weight problems.)
Is he Juan Soto?  No
Is he Ron Acuna?  Probably not.  But that's not a distant comp when you match their ages.  Acuna was brilliant at age 19 in AA/AAA last year for his age 19 season.  Adell will be in his age 20 season next year and likely to be in AA/AAA but will only be about 4 months older than Acuna was during that time.  

My point is that Adell could end up in that elite group of young super stars next year which is actually very difficult to comp.  Chances are he ends up 'just' very very good or all-star level but not in that perennial mvp category.  

But damn if it's not tempting to imagine him at his peak potential in the same lineup at Trout and Ohtani.  

[Angelsjunky]

29 minutes ago, arch stanton said:

Dawson before Olympic Stadium killed his knees or Eric Davis before the lacerated kidney in the WS

Eric Davis...what could have been. Always hobbled by injury. Hit 37 HR and 50 SB one year, playing in only 129 games. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

Last night I bumped into a friend of mine who is a scout. He had seen SLC.

He said Thaiss and Walsh are both borderline guys. Wasn’t sure either could be an everyday player. Didn’t seem to like Walsh’s swing at all. I got the feeling he’s a little Jabari-Blash-like: he can hit mistakes in the minors but has a swing that won’t be able to handle good pitching. 

He really likes Canning. Suarez is a fringy big leaguer, not going to be a star but could hang around as a 4-5 starter type. 

He also said Rengifo isn’t as good as Cowart. 

[Angelsfan1984]

6 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Last night I bumped into a friend of mine who is a scout. He had seen SLC.

He said Thaiss and Walsh are both borderline guys. Wasn’t sure either could be an everyday player. Didn’t seem to like Walsh’s swing at all. I got the feeling he’s a little Jabari-Blash-like: he can hit mistakes in the minors but has a swing that won’t be able to handle good pitching. 

He really likes Canning. Suarez is a fringy big leaguer, not going to be a star but could hang around as a 4-5 starter type. 

He also said Rengifo isn’t as good as Cowart. 

That's a scary conclusion. How long has your friend needed a new pair of glasses?

[Angel Oracle]

13 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

It's amazing how much Vlad Jr. would have fit so perfectly into our future. Not to mention giving Trout another star to play along side with.

If Dipoto gets AIDS I'll throw a party.

And solved the long playing 3B dilemma.

[mtangelsfan]

Can we stop talking about Vladdy Jr?  

It is literally depressing.

[GrittyVeterans]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Last night I bumped into a friend of mine who is a scout. He had seen SLC.

He said Thaiss and Walsh are both borderline guys. Wasn’t sure either could be an everyday player. Didn’t seem to like Walsh’s swing at all. I got the feeling he’s a little Jabari-Blash-like: he can hit mistakes in the minors but has a swing that won’t be able to handle good pitching. 

He really likes Canning. Suarez is a fringy big leaguer, not going to be a star but could hang around as a 4-5 starter type. 

He also said Rengifo isn’t as good as Cowart. 

Jesus, that’s not encouraging at all. 

[mulwin444]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

He also said Rengifo isn’t as good as Cowart. 

Overall?  Or just defensively?  Because Rengifo tore through three levels of the minors at the same age Cowart was hitting .221 .279 .580 OPS at AA.

Just...seems off

[totdprods]

2 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Last night I bumped into a friend of mine who is a scout. He had seen SLC.

He said Thaiss and Walsh are both borderline guys. Wasn’t sure either could be an everyday player. Didn’t seem to like Walsh’s swing at all. I got the feeling he’s a little Jabari-Blash-like: he can hit mistakes in the minors but has a swing that won’t be able to handle good pitching. 

He really likes Canning. Suarez is a fringy big leaguer, not going to be a star but could hang around as a 4-5 starter type. 

He also said Rengifo isn’t as good as Cowart. 

Devastating as that is (and many will disagree) there are still some positives to be had here - even if Walsh and Thaiss are role players, Suarez is fringey, and Rengifo and Fletcher wind up more as utility IFs...that's still better than anything we've produced since Cron/Calhoun. 

The stat lines we saw on the farm from these guys this year are also an example that there is some actual development and coaching that is producing results on the farm for once. That too is a big plus. 

As fans, we do need to try and temper expectations a bit. What Fletcher, Rengifo, and Ward did this year was wildly out of line with years worth of history on the farm. Canning and Suarez tore through A+/AA but struggled a bit in AAA...this could be a result of them being challenged for the first time, but also could be an example of them simply not starting at the appropriate level - they simply were too advanced for A+, reaped some benefits of a pitcher-friendly AA environment (though did undoubtedly enjoy legit success), and now are falling closer in line to their realities at AAA. 

I'm not saying I necessarily believe all that - but I do think there could be some truth there. It's also a reason why it may behoove Eppler to act on some of these guys' maxing out their prospect trade value and sell-high before any of the above scout's assessments ring true.

[Second Base]

I wouldn't read into this too much gents. 

Typical view of a scout.  They exist within a box and if something doesn't fit that box, then they're going to devalue it, or at the very least, give it less attention and praise.  Scouts are notorious for being very narrowly focused on some key things.  They like big, strong, athletic players that hit the ball 450 feet, and they like tall lanky pitchers that throw 95.  In other words, scouts lack any sort of creativity.  That's why it's such a big deal when a scout was right on a kid that no one else was right on.  

Case in point, Kaleb Cowart. 

Scouts have ALWAYS loved Cowart.  And why shouldn't they?  He's big, strong, fast, athletic, and great defensively.  It's what led to him being a first round selection and we're still seeing that today. 

But Luis Rengifo?

Scouts have never really paid attention to Luis Rengifo, which is why he's been traded so frequently, and why the Rays had no problem trading him for C.J. Cron.  From a scouting perspective, Kaleb Cowart is better than Luis Rengifo.  But once they're on the field, the results differ.

Same thing goes with Canning and Suarez.  Canning is an obvious talent.  It doesn't take any scouting experience to see that he throws hard and his breaking balls break a ton.  It also doesn't take much to see that Suarez doesn't have a pitcher's body, and his pitches aren't as good as Canning's are.  That fringy big leaguer tag was assigned to Jaime Barria for a while too by pretty much every scout and so far, it looks like every single scout was wrong. 

NEWSFLASH: Not everyone that is shorter in stature or only throws 92 is "fringe".  Again, I'm not saying scouts are wrong, I'm just saying they lack creativity.

Remember how doubtful everyone was of Shohei Ohtani's ability to come to the U.S. and succeed on both ends of the ball?  Do you guys remember why they were leery in the first place?  Because they'd never seen it before. 

So why aren't scouts big on Matt Thaiss?  He's too short, and doesn't hit the ball far enough.  The same questions about his bat have followed him since the Angels drafted him as a first baseman, so this scout's view lacks any actual new information.  It's the same thing every other scout has said about him.  It doesn't make them wrong, ultimately his bat will dictate that.  And the same thing goes with Walsh.  He was drafted at the very bottom of the draft, out of a major college.  Scouts have never liked him, yet here he is in AAA getting it done on both ends of the ball. 

I wouldn't sweat this at all. 

[totdprods]

12 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

I wouldn't read into this too much gents. 

Typical view of a scout.  They exist within a box and if something doesn't fit that box, then they're going to devalue it, or at the very least, give it less attention and praise.  Scouts are notorious for being very narrowly focused on some key things.  They like big, strong, athletic players that hit the ball 450 feet, and they like tall lanky pitchers that throw 95.  In other words, scouts lack any sort of creativity.  That's why it's such a big deal when a scout was right on a kid that no one else was right on.  

Definitely agree. Kole and Shoemaker are clear examples of players who also breezed past scouts into being productive MLBers. 

But I also think we shouldn't completely discredit the scouts and the possibility that Rengifo, Ward, Walsh, Fletcher, and even Canning and Suarez' A+/AA stats were a tad inflated. 

They might not be a starting 2B, Josh Donaldson-lite, and 2 top SP prospects, and more like a starting 2B, an average IF, a UT IF, and two #3-#4 types, like Barria...which still is a huge influx of talent to the MLB team from the minors, the most we've had in nearly a decade.

[Chuck]

One scout told Baseball America that Mike Trout's ceiling was Aaron Rowand. 

Scouts are human guys.. nothing to see here unless you had a panel of scouts who all reported individual scouting reports saying the same thing. 

You have to also remember, that Rengifo wore out toward the end of the season, as did Walsh and Thaiss. Where was this scout when Rengifo & Walsh were tearing apart High-A, Double-A and Rengifo's first few weeks in AAA? 

Rengifo's first three weeks in AAA he slashed .304/.364/.478 ... The final month of the season in August, he slashed just .245/.333/.382. Overall Rengifo slashed .299/.399/.452 with 41 stolen bases and .851 OPS. That's solid to great folks! Perception is not always reality. It's like watching Kole Calhoun in July & August vs. April, May & September.

Thaiss was solid in Double-A and his first two months in AAA. But if @Jeff Fletcher's scout just caught Thaiss in August, he may have seen him at his worst slashing just .257/.317/.358 and just .231/.267/.308 in September (just 3 games). 

Timing is EVERYTHING when it comes to scouting.

Can you imagine if this same scout checked in on Jo Adell over a 10-day stretch when he hit just a .150 with a bunch of strikeouts? I'm guessing he wouldn't come away with him being the #2 overall prospect in baseball by this time next year and top 20 prospect overall at the start of next season. 

I think Suarez ran out of gas, as did Canning. I think having an entire offseason of rest on those arms are going to do wonders for these kids. Both could be #2 and #3 starters in the big leagues. They both reached AAA this season after doing well at A and AA. 

Lastly, Jared Walsh has a solid minor league stat line over 360 games (.294/.360/.496 with 49 HR) and he hits lefthanded, plays 1B, OF and pitches. He's going to get a big league look. Whether he's a Blash or a young Calhoun type, time will tell. 

[Angel Oracle]

Steve Garvey was just 5-10, even shorter than Thaiss.   It didn't stop him from being a many times All-Star/GG 1B.