The Official 2018 Minor League Statline and Prospect Discussion Thread

[Second Base]

Even the most optimistic among scouts never viewed him as a shortstop I don't think. I don't really care if the Angels play someone out of position in rookie ball as long as it doesn't hinder that player from developing as a defender where they'll end up. Since Maitan is going to be a third baseman, him getting some reps in at shortstop won't hurt. The eye test suggests that he's familiar with the position, but also too big to remain there. The numbers only back that up. 

But his arm and glove both figure to play well at third base. And while he isn't fast, his footwork is actually pretty good.  Down th line, he should make a decent option in the corner infield. 

And I think it's important to keep in mind, he's still only the age of a high school senior. Simply being "ok" in Orem at his age is a success in itself. He has not even begun to tap into that upside of his yet. The Angels think he will eventually, otherwise they wopuldn't have spent 2.2 million on him, twice as much as they spent on Deveaux, Knowles, Uceta or Alex Ramirez.

I think the biggest thing I see with Maitan is that there are a lot of moving parts pre-swing, to get his timing down and get him into a spot to hit. Those will be ironed out with time I hope. But he has something that you just can't teach. Plus-plus oppo power. That kid goes oppo better than anyone in the system already. 

[Angelsjunky]

23 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

Even the most optimistic among scouts never viewed him as a shortstop I don't think. I don't really care if the Angels play someone out of position in rookie ball as long as it doesn't hinder that player from developing as a defender where they'll end up. Since Maitan is going to be a third baseman, him getting some reps in at shortstop won't hurt. The eye test suggests that he's familiar with the position, but also too big to remain there. The numbers only back that up. 

But his arm and glove both figure to play well at third base. And while he isn't fast, his footwork is actually pretty good.  Down th line, he should make a decent option in the corner infield. 

And I think it's important to keep in mind, he's still only the age of a high school senior. Simply being "ok" in Orem at his age is a success in itself. He has not even begun to tap into that upside of his yet. The Angels think he will eventually, otherwise they wopuldn't have spent 2.2 million on him, twice as much as they spent on Deveaux, Knowles, Uceta or Alex Ramirez.

I think the biggest thing I see with Maitan is that there are a lot of moving parts pre-swing, to get his timing down and get him into a spot to hit. Those will be ironed out with time I hope. But he has something that you just can't teach. Plus-plus oppo power. That kid goes oppo better than anyone in the system already. 

Good stuff. My sense there is a bit of a boom or bust with Maitan: Either he becomes a star or he flames out in the minors, with less of a likelihood of something between (say, being a solid bench guy or average regular). Would you say that's true? In other words, the talent is there, it is all about make-up.

[Second Base]

38 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Good stuff. My sense there is a bit of a boom or bust with Maitan: Either he becomes a star or he flames out in the minors, with less of a likelihood of something between (say, being a solid bench guy or average regular). Would you say that's true? In other words, the talent is there, it is all about make-up.

I think he's already shown that his floor is too low to be anything or a safe pick. He's definitely boom or bust in my opinion. I don't believe it has anything to do with makeup though. From what I understand, he was perceived as a little arrogant last year with the Braves, but has since been pretty normal with the Angels. His work ethic since arriving is unquestionable though. He's cut weight, takes extra BP, has arrived early and stayed late.

I know I said this before, but I get the feeling he's going to be one of those guys that figured it all out at once.  He's simply been ok this year as an 18 year old in Orem. And I'm guessing he might struggle a little as a 19 year old in Burlington.  But I think right at 20 or 21, something is going to click with him and he'll shoot through the system without being challenged anymore in the minors. 

It'll take some patience, but I think he'll end up being a good middle of the order hitter third baseman. 

[UndertheHalo]

I think it’s kind of interesting that some of you view Rengifo as the better 2B vs.  Fletcher. 

[Chuck]

1 hour ago, UndertheHalo said:

I think it’s kind of interesting that some of you view Rengifo as the better 2B vs.  Fletcher. 

I rank him higher too.

I think it's because while Fletcher does a lot of things well, his counting stats (BB's, SB, HR) won't ever be sexy, but he can hit .280-.300 in the bigs and flash some leather. Fletcher doesn't strikeout much, but he also doesn't walk much either.

Rengifo gets on base, steals bases, makes hard contact and can also play some D. 

To me, Fletcher is the quintessential utility infielder.

[UndertheHalo]

20 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I rank him higher too.

I think it's because while Fletcher does a lot of things well, his counting stats (BB's, SB, HR) won't ever be sexy, but he can hit .280-.300 in the bigs and flash some leather. Fletcher doesn't strikeout much, but he also doesn't walk much either.

Rengifo gets on base, steals bases, makes hard contact and can also play some D. 

To me, Fletcher is the quintessential utility infielder.

Ya I definitely appreciate the upside argument.  I guess I tend to defer to players who have shown performance at the major league level.  For sure I’m looking forward to seeing Rengifo in major league action. 

[Second Base]

Choosing between Fletcher, Rengifo and Jones I think is a lot like choosing between Eckstein, Izturis and Kennedy. I think whatever the case, you pretty much win. 

If you prefer guaranteed production, you go with Fletcher, if you want a little more potential but with a little less defense and certainty, you go with Rengifo. If you want to play the lottery and try to hit the jackpot, you go with Jones, knowing full well that he's less of a guarantee than both Fletcher and Rengifo.

Can't knock anyone for going in any one direction. 

Personally, I'd go with Fletcher, just because I don't think Rengifo's upside is great enough to outweigh the less certainty of success. I think the best way to do this would be to keep both. One in a starting the role, the other in a utility role. If Rengifo can't consistently produce, make him a utility infielder and enjoy the elite defense and contact skills of Fletcher. If Rengifo's tools play up, move Fletcher to the utility role and enjoy the increased production. 

[Angelsjunky]

The main difference between Fletcher and Rengifo—on paper—is maybe 30 walks a year, and a bit more speed. I can also see Rengifo developing a bit more power. But as Scotty said, Fletch is more of a sure thing.

So we have a clear inverse:

Ceiling: Jones, Rengifo, Fletcher

Floor: Fletcher, Rengifo, Jones

I like Fletcher but really like Rengifo, to the point that I have to think long and hard about who to rank higher, him or Jones. I still give Jahmai the edge but it is slight.

[eaterfan]

30 walks a year is nothing to sneeze at. That's 10 innings worth of baseball; more than a full game's worth.

[Angelsjunky]

7 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

30 walks a year is nothing to sneeze at. That's 10 innings worth of baseball; more than a full game's worth.

I agree, which is why I like Rengifo better.

[Warfarin]

16 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

The main difference between Fletcher and Rengifo—on paper—is maybe 30 walks a year, and a bit more speed. I can also see Rengifo developing a bit more power. But as Scotty said, Fletch is more of a sure thing.

So we have a clear inverse:

Ceiling: Jones, Rengifo, Fletcher

Floor: Fletcher, Rengifo, Jones

I like Fletcher but really like Rengifo, to the point that I have to think long and hard about who to rank higher, him or Jones. I still give Jahmai the edge but it is slight.

I certainly like the potential of Renfigo's game.  That said, Fletcher's performance (in particular his defense) has been fantastic.  He's at 1.8 fWAR for the season, which is actually just a little bit behind Torres and Andujar despite playing way, way less.  With Fletcher occupying 2B, and with Renfigo and Jones in the minors, and I'd say we have 2B very well covered for the foreseeable future.

[AngelStew43]

Maybe we could package 1 for a starting pitcher with a little upside?  Maybe include one of the young OF'ers (Marsh?) to try to bring back a number 2-3 starter?

[totdprods]

16 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

Maybe we could package 1 for a starting pitcher with a little upside?  Maybe include one of the young OF'ers (Marsh?) to try to bring back a number 2-3 starter?

Throw in Suarez, who is a little redundant with Heaney, Skaggs, and Sandoval, and you've got a pretty attractive trio of prospects to offer for a good SP.

[Angelsjunky]

I do think that the Angels will, at some point within the next year or so, trade excess prospects for a starting pitcher, or possibly a good young catcher or first baseman.

I see the most likely trade candidates as being:

One of Walsh, Thaiss

One of Fletcher, Rengifo, Jones

One of Canning, Suarez, Sandoval

One of Hermosillo, Marsh, eventually Adams, Deveaux, Knowles

 

You could safely trade one player from each of the four groups and not negatively impact the future of the team, while adding a nice player or two. The question is, which players to trade and which to keep?

[Angel Oracle]

3 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

I do think that the Angels will, at some point within the next year or so, trade excess prospects for a starting pitcher, or possibly a good young catcher or first baseman.

I see the most likely trade candidates as being:

One of Walsh, Thaiss

One of Fletcher, Rengifo, Jones

One of Canning, Suarez, Sandoval

One of Hermosillo, Marsh, eventually Adams, Deveaux, Knowles

 

You could safely trade one player from each of the four groups and not negatively impact the future of the team, while adding a nice player or two. The question is, which players to trade and which to keep?

Good idea, except that Canning should not be part of the pitching group.   They need more RHP help, as it is.

[AngelStew43]

All reports on Canning are saying he has ace potential, so I don't think he'll be going anywhere just yet.  Suarez, I could see because of Skaggs and Heaney.  Still, the elite pitchers don't seem to be available, and the injury history on guys like Strasburg and Kershaw isn't good.  Eppler will have some difficult choices this winter.

[totdprods]

5 hours ago, AngelStew43 said:

All reports on Canning are saying he has ace potential, so I don't think he'll be going anywhere just yet.  Suarez, I could see because of Skaggs and Heaney.  Still, the elite pitchers don't seem to be available, and the injury history on guys like Strasburg and Kershaw isn't good.  Eppler will have some difficult choices this winter.

I don't think I've seen anything about Canning having ace potential. He's always projected more with a decent #2, very good #3 ceiling. We should temper expectations some...he is far more likely to be a Mike Leake type than a Greinke.

[HaloNArizona]

2 hours ago, totdprods said:

I don't think I've seen anything about Canning having ace potential. He's always projected more with a decent #2, very good #3 ceiling. We should temper expectations some...he is far more likely to be a Mike Leake type than a Greinke.

Based on what Canning did this year (yes he did struggle at AAA), I would not be so hurry to move him just yet.  

[Angelsjunky]

I definitely agree on holding onto Canning. 

As far as upside goes, I’d say he’s probably at least a #3, maybe a #2, and unlikely but possibly a #1. 

I could see something like Dan Haren, who had a couple years on the cusp of being an ace but was mostly in the #2-3 range. 

[Second Base]

I'm actually going to run counter to most here and say that I think Canning can grow into an ace.  His stuff is VERY good.  But that's not out of the ordinary, I mean there are a ton of guys in the minor leagues with a great fastball and breaking ball.  Both of Canning's fastballs are great, and both his breaking balls are great, and that's not all, his actual best pitch is supposed to be his change up.  He has too many ways to get you out, so even if he ever lost velocity in his fastball, he'd still be very good.  Look at the numbers he posted in college, when his fastball was working 3-4 ticks lower and he hadn't fully developed his curve or slider yet.  

His mechanics are a little funky but that's what separates him.  Canning is very committed to his process and highly intelligent.  I think he grows into a Trevor Bauer type (though to be fair, it took him a few years before he fully developed).  Or he might be similar to Lance McCullers and be a dynamic #3.  Or we could hit the jackpot and he's the next Pedro.  But I think Canning's going to be a solid front of the rotation pitcher. 

[totdprods]

I can get behind the idea of Canning topping out at a Bauer or peak Haren, having an ace-like season here or there and very good years the others, but to expect anything more than a #3 at best for a year or three is reasonable still. 

Even Weaver and Lackey had some sophomore/junior slumps after strong rookie campaigns, and it did take Bauer awhile. 

And I'm good with that. If the Halos had been able to trot out 4-5 guys putting up just #3 production (say 170 IP, 3.80 ERA) any of the last three years, they would've made the playoffs once or twice.

[SoWhat]

Leake’s stuff doesn’t even come close to Canning’s. The disrespect, smh 

[AngelStew43]

Check out the interview with the new catcher, Hudson. He is VERY high on Canning.  Command on 4 ML quality pitches,  according to him.

[totdprods]

6 hours ago, SoWhat said:

Leake’s stuff doesn’t even come close to Canning’s. The disrespect, smh 

Did not compare Canning's stuff to Leake, only his production and career path. He undoubtedly has a higher ceiling and better stuff, but his floor, likeliest outcome, and short-term production is likely around what Leake gives.

Leake's first 3 years, age 22-24, he averaged 4.23 ERA, 28 G, 165 innings. Totally reasonable and a totally pleasant outcome. In fact, that's even better than Bauer's career averages up until he broke out this season.

[Chuck]

Jim Callis from MLB.com predicts Jo Adell will be the #2 prospect in all of baseball come this time next year. 

https://www.mlb.com/news/jim-callis-predicts-mlb-top-10-2019-prospects/c-294181356