Gameday: 3/16 Angels vs Rockies

[krAbs]

Just now, Ohtani&Trout said:

Most of the hits were bloops and softly-hit grounders. Not worried at all. 

I hate when softly-hit grounders clear the outfield fence.

[Chuck]

He's not going to start in the minors. The Angels didn't pay 20+ million dollars for him to start the season in the minors. 

19 K's in 8 innings. Besides the 4 dingers, there have several doinks and grounders that found holes. Some of that shit will even out. 

[Inside Pitch]

Ugly start... He's stuff is better than it's played and Fletcher is kind of hinting at him being BABip'ed to death... 

I think people are overreacting, I also think the Angels need to maybe sit him down and explain that while they know he's used to doing things a certain way this isn't Kansas anymore... (Or Hanshin if you'd rather).   He will be pitching in MLB, and instead of trying to make things adapt to him they really should consider working to get him to start adapting to MLB...   

All the "he used to doing ____ in Japan" stuff needs to stop...  He won't be pitching in Japan again..  unless he fails.   Time to teach him what it takes to succeed in this league...  Everyone knows he was great over there.

Also ..  AO -- if you can forgive me for stepping on your toes -- Hows "Bohtanquin" for a nickname....   

Just having some fun with his struggles today...

[Second Base]

Stuff looked great, but couldn't hit his spots in the second inning. Doesn't matter if your stuff is the best on earth, if you don't locate, you'll be hit hard.

Still not concerned though. It's Spring Training. Because of who he is, Ohtani will be under a microscope and people will take everything and amplify it. If he were striking everyone out and hitting HR's then we'd hear discussion about who might be better, Ohtani and Trout. The fact that he's struggling means we're hearing the narrative that he can't do both and he's overrated and needs to be in the minors.

Just wait for the season guys. He'll be at a different level. More splitters, better pitching environment, and focusing on finding his rhythm and succeeding, not playing around with different pitches at different times. And offensively, he won't worry so much about swinging away and getting his cuts in. When the games matter, Ohtani will probably be taking a lot of pitches that he can't do anything with. And as time passes and he finds his comfort zone he'll begin driving the ball.

Shohei Ohtani is probably going to be really good, and it'll just be one of many stories that illuminate how meaningless Spring can be.

[Chuck]

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Ugly start... He's stuff is better than it's played and Fletcher is kind of hinting at him being BABip'ed to death... 

I think people are overreacting, I also think the Angels need to maybe sit him down and explain that while they know he's used to doing things a certain way this isn't Kansas anymore... (Or Hanshin if you'd rather).   He will be pitching in MLB, and instead of trying to make things adapt to him they really should consider working to get him to start adapting to MLB...   

All the "he used to doing ____ in Japan" stuff needs to stop...  He won't be pitching in Japan again..  unless he fails.   Time to teach him what it takes to succeed in this league...  Everyone knows he was great over there.

Also ..  AO -- if you can forgive me for stepping on your toes -- Hows "Bohtanquin" for a nickname....   

Just having some fun with his struggles today...

Thank you. 

[Chuck]

1 minute ago, Scotty@AW said:

Stuff looked great, but couldn't hit his spots in the second inning. Doesn't matter if your stuff is the best on earth, if you don't locate, you'll be hit hard.

Still not concerned though. It's Spring Training. Because of who he is, Ohtani will be under a microscope and people will take everything and amplify it. If he were striking everyone out and hitting HR's then we'd hear discussion about who might be better, Ohtani and Trout. The fact that he's struggling means we're hearing the narrative that he can't do both and he's overrated and needs to be in the minors.

Just wait for the season guys. He'll be at a different level. More splitters, better pitching environment, and focusing on finding his rhythm and succeeding, not playing around with different pitches at different times. And offensively, he won't worry so much about swinging away and getting his cuts in. When the games matter, Ohtani will probably be taking a lot of pitches that he can't do anything with. And as time passes and he finds his comfort zone he'll begin driving the ball.

Shohei Ohtani is probably going to be really good, and it'll just be one of many stories that illuminate how meaningless Spring can be.

You mean like Richards in his last start? Couldn't hit his spots, command was off, early day for him. 

[tdawg87]

The discussion that he should start the year in AAA is fine to have. 

But it's not going to happen.

[krAbs]

10 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

Stuff looked great, but couldn't hit his spots in the second inning. Doesn't matter if your stuff is the best on earth, if you don't locate, you'll be hit hard.

Still not concerned though. It's Spring Training. Because of who he is, Ohtani will be under a microscope and people will take everything and amplify it. If he were striking everyone out and hitting HR's then we'd hear discussion about who might be better, Ohtani and Trout. The fact that he's struggling means we're hearing the narrative that he can't do both and he's overrated and needs to be in the minors.

Just wait for the season guys. He'll be at a different level. More splitters, better pitching environment, and focusing on finding his rhythm and succeeding, not playing around with different pitches at different times. And offensively, he won't worry so much about swinging away and getting his cuts in. When the games matter, Ohtani will probably be taking a lot of pitches that he can't do anything with. And as time passes and he finds his comfort zone he'll begin driving the ball.

Shohei Ohtani is probably going to be really good, and it'll just be one of many stories that illuminate how meaningless Spring can be.

I, for one, think both that he is underrated and that needs to be in the minors. I think that he may well be MVP level as a hitting outfielder. But he is young and adjusting to about a thousand things at once.

[Jason]

4 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

The discussion that he should start the year in AAA is fine to have. 

But it's not going to happen.

You're probably right but what if he's still struggling through April and into mid May? Does he go then?

[tdawg87]

Just now, Jason said:

You're probably right but what if he's still struggling through April and into mid May? Does he go then?

Possibly. Depends on how badly he's struggling. 

Right now none of our staff looks particularly good so you might as well go with him until you have a better option. 

Cobb is questionably that. But signing him now reeks of overreaction. And Ohtani could see that as a slap in the face. 

Now if you wanna get Cobb anyway I'm on board, but not because Ohtani is struggling.

[red321]

who knew the real reason the Angels wanted to go to a 6 man rotation...so he didn't go stink it up as often...

 

[Jason]

Just now, tdawg87 said:

Possibly. Depends on how badly he's struggling. 

Right now none of our staff looks particularly good so you might as well go with him until you have a better option. 

Cobb is questionably that. But signing him now reeks of overreaction. And Ohtani could see that as a slap in the face. 

Now if you wanna get Cobb anyway I'm on board, but not because Ohtani is struggling.

You can't have too much depth, especially with a rotation full of questions marks. 

[Troll Daddy]

He’s scheduled for one more start I believe ... if he gets hammered then all bets are off. 

If he does start off in the minors ... no harm no foul

[WeatherWonk]

20 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

The discussion that he should start the year in AAA is fine to have. 

But it's not going to happen.

Ok, so it's not going to happen. As Rory would say,

"Just another Halo April........"

We cant give up games in April. The WC race is seriously competitive this year.

[Pablo]

12 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Possibly. Depends on how badly he's struggling. 

Right now none of our staff looks particularly good so you might as well go with him until you have a better option. 

Cobb is questionably that. But signing him now reeks of overreaction. And Ohtani could see that as a slap in the face. 

Now if you wanna get Cobb anyway I'm on board, but not because Ohtani is struggling.

Problem is, if you wait a month or so you have to rebuild his psyche as well. Confidence is a fragile thing, especially if you're a 23 year old with the hopes of a nation riding on your shoulders. Kid is too talented to risk screwing him up.

 

[eligrba4ever]

Checked the GameDay and saw evidence of a second-inning avalanche. Scrolled through the thread. Read Guardado's game-in-progress Ohtani summary.

I would write this off as Spring Training if it was two weeks ago. But Shohei has been brought along slowly. Was this his first out-front start against a real team that doesn't play in the Mexican League?

I can't say that I'm not worried about him. He needs to get back in the saddle and go again soon. No more intrasquad, back field stuff.

Hey, Utahns! Maybe he'll open your season at Smith's Field. Get your tix today (or next week or something.)

 

[Jason]

11 minutes ago, Pablo said:

Problem is, if you wait a month or so you have to rebuild his psyche as well. Confidence is a fragile thing, especially if you're a 23 year old with the hopes of a nation riding on your shoulders. Kid is too talented to risk screwing him up.

 

Wow. It is just baseball they're playing

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

Jose Altuve reportedly agrees to five-year, $151 million extension with Astros

[Second Base]

39 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

You mean like Richards in his last start? Couldn't hit his spots, command was off, early day for him. 

Yeah. A lot of young pitchers have a permanent case of stuff vs location problem. Richards used to. Guys like Jose Berrios and Tyler Glasnow are dealing with it right now. Alex Meyer had just conquered that hurdle before injury. I've been waiting for Skaggs to work through it a couple years now but injuries have stalled that development.

Ohtani will have a bit of a learning curve, but as long as he's healthy, history and logic suggests he'll be a very good pitcher.

[Pablo]

3 minutes ago, Jason said:

Wow. It is just baseball they're playing

  I can be prone to hyperbole...

 

[JustATroutFan]

Need to not have too high of expectations for Ohtani in his rookie year. Not every star players is Trout in their rookie years. 

[tdawg87]

Think of it this way: Ohtani has already proven himself in Japan, which is essentially AAA. He has nothing left to prove. He's not going to get better by facing AAA guys. You don't keep your top pitching prospect in the minors because he had a terrible Spring Training. Like any top pitching prospect, he needs to take his bumps at the MLB level. We know he has the talent. He just needs to adjust. 

Like it or not, that's going to happen no matter whether you start him in AAA or the bigs. An extra month facing minor league hitters isn't going to prepare him any more for the jump to the big league level. 

[Mark68]

Here's another argument against AAA:

Salt Lake City is definitely NOT the place to send a struggling pitcher. Pitching at altitude will do him no favors. Pitching in the PCL in general will not help him regain any lost confidence (if confidence is the issue). If his fastball remains flat or poorly located, PCL hitters will clobber him.

[WeatherWonk]

6 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Think of it this way: Ohtani has already proven himself in Japan, which is essentially AAA. He has nothing left to prove. He's not going to get better by facing AAA guys. You don't keep your top pitching prospect in the minors because he had a terrible Spring Training. Like any top pitching prospect, he needs to take his bumps at the MLB level. We know he has the talent. He just needs to adjust. 

Like it or not, that's going to happen no matter whether you start him in AAA or the bigs. An extra month facing minor league hitters isn't going to prepare him any more for the jump to the big league level. 

And just accept the losses, huh?

There IS a difference between working it out at AAA and working it out in the BIGS........the Angel's W-L record!

This organization should pretty much be in WIN NOW mode. Albert another year older, Richards a FA, Kinsler a FA, Maldonado a FA.

The Trout clock is ticking............

[tdawg87]

7 minutes ago, Throwman91 said:

Different slicker baseball, mound height, between inning routine could take months to get used to.  If he struggles like this during the season it can be enough to permanently damage him mentally.

He's 23. Not a 15 year old. 

I don't understand this "mental damage" thing people keep bringing up. He's a professional. If getting hammered at the big league level will "damage him mentally" then he was never going to work out anyway. 

And the PCL is hardly the environment you want to put a pitcher in if you're worried about hurting their mentality.

Edited March 16, 2018 by tdawg87