Fire Scioscia

[tdawg87]

If the Angels win the WS Claude will say it's only because they bought it. 

The only way he is happy with the team is if the total payroll is the lowest in baseball by at least $30 million, and the highest paid player is only making $1.7 million per year and Arte isn't the owner and Sosh isn't the manager and Pujols is literally dead and even after all that he'd find time to mention that they could have won more WS rings if only they listened to him earlier.

[ten ocho recon scout]

31 minutes ago, JarsOfClay said:

I dont agree with this. Most players are attracted to the highest dollar contract, location, winning environment. I've never heard a player say something along the lines of "Well they released player x on his decline, I will never play with them." 

As for the Front Office, I mean Dipoto painted this organization in a very bad light when he quit and we still got a pretty good one in Eppler.  There are only so many GM positions to go around.

A great organization to work for is one that wins every year. 

It plays a role. I know for a bit there the angels werent a big destination for a lot of guys...

[CubsFan]

Why is there a little arrow tag that says "Lasagna"

[Warfarin]

35 minutes ago, Lou said:

Huh?

• Seager has played in 60% of their games and just had TJ surgery
• Kershaw is injured again and can opt-out after this season.
• They owe Hill, who has blisters again, and Kemp a combined $40M next year.
• Pederson blew his wad in his rookie season.
• Ryu, Puig, Forsythe and Grandal are FAs at the end of year.
• Jansen is having his worst year and is owed $57M for the next 3 year 
• They need a 2B
• They are 1/2 game away from having the 2nd worst record in the NL 

 

 

Perhaps I should qualify what I mean by "short-term" - I mean in the next 1-2 years, but probably not this year.  I think they aren't making the playoffs this year.  Addressing your points:

 

• Seager has played in 60% of their games and just had TJ surgery - it is likely he was playing through injury, hence his mediocre performance this year, and yep, he's out for the year, although likely to be back by April next year.  
• Kershaw is injured again and can opt-out after this season. - there's an increasingly likelihood he opts in.  The back injuries, the forearm injury now... if he comes back and pitches really well, then he could opt out, but I think there's a decent chance he opts in
• They owe Hill, who has blisters again, and Kemp a combined $40M next year. - yeah, but the Dodgers will have a good amount of payroll room this offseason, and since they will have reset their luxury tax level, they probably won't mind going back over it, knowing they will probably easily go right back under it the following offseason when Hill + Kemp's contracts expire 
• Pederson blew his wad in his rookie season. - he's not earning much anyway, and I doubt he's part of their long-term plans
• Ryu, Puig, Forsythe and Grandal are FAs at the end of year. - Puig is NOT a free agent.  His contract runs up, but he actually has one more year of control beyond that.  Ryu likely was not part of their long-term plan and is fairly replaceable.  Forsythe hasn't done much of anything for them, and as for Grandal, the Dodgers have by far hte most catching pipeline talent in baseball, so I think they'll be fine on the catching front.
• Jansen is having his worst year and is owed $57M for the next 3 year - a poor 1.5 months doesn't mean he's finished.  Let's see how the rest of the year turns out
• They need a 2B - yes, they do.
• They are 1/2 game away from having the 2nd worst record in the NL - yep, and I think they miss the playoffs this year, but they have a top-10 farm system and payroll room after this offseason, and combined with some bounce back performances, and I do think they are in good shape overall, just probably not this year

[tdawg87]

8 minutes ago, CubsFan said:

Why is there a little arrow tag that says "Lasagna"

Why wouldn't there be?

[Slegnaac]

3 hours ago, OHTANILAND said:

We have to stop worrying about hurting feelings and get serious about winning. Pretty sure that the 3 million fans would appreciate winning more than keeping the light on for “A Place for Mom”

Do you think the next manager is currently unemployed?  If so, I could see making a move midseason.  If the next manager is currently employed elsewhere,  then you might as well wait this season out.

[Warfarin]

44 minutes ago, JarsOfClay said:

I dont agree with this. Most players are attracted to the highest dollar contract, location, winning environment. I've never heard a player say something along the lines of "Well they released player x on his decline, I will never play with them." 

As for the Front Office, I mean Dipoto painted this organization in a very bad light when he quit and we still got a pretty good one in Eppler.  There are only so many GM positions to go around.

A great organization to work for is one that wins every year. 

Yes, and that is what we saw through the media, but I'm sure those inside the industry know quite a bit more than we do.  I suspect others know Dipoto is difficult to work for/with, and it wasn't a function of us, but rather a function of him.

Yes, I do agree with you as well about going for the biggest contract for players.  Obviously if we offer a player a 2 year, 20 mil deal, and a crappy team offers them a 4 year, 80 million deal, well yeah, no contest.  But think of it from your own perspective - would you rather work for a positive, flexible employer who maybe pays you a bit less, or a more rigid, notorious employer who will pay you more but will suck to work for and be constantly stressed?  Everyone's different, but I'll take a bit less pay for a more positive, upbeat, friendly environment.  

Again, just my opinion, we can agree to disagree.

[Ohtaniland]

7 minutes ago, Slegnaac said:

Do you think the next manager is currently unemployed?  If so, I could see making a move midseason.  If the next manager is currently employed elsewhere,  then you might as well wait this season out.

I would immediately kick Sosh upstairs in some kind of meaningful capacity. Give Girardi an interim Managers position and see how it goes. Eppler and Girardi have a working history together. It can’t hurt because you still have Sosh actively in the organization. 

[Ohtaniland]

7 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Yes, and that is what we saw through the media, but I'm sure those inside the industry know quite a bit more than we do.  I suspect others know Dipoto is difficult to work for/with, and it wasn't a function of us, but rather a function of him.

Yes, I do agree with you as well about going for the biggest contract for players.  Obviously if we offer a player a 2 year, 20 mil deal, and a crappy team offers them a 4 year, 80 million deal, well yeah, no contest.  But think of it from your own perspective - would you rather work for a positive, flexible employer who maybe pays you a bit less, or a more rigid, notorious employer who will pay you more but will suck to work for and be constantly stressed?  Everyone's different, but I'll take a bit less pay for a more positive, upbeat, friendly environment.  

Again, just my opinion, we can agree to disagree.

With all due respect it seems like you’re portraying the Angels organization as a relaxed no pressure to win just turn the page environment. 

In Boston and New York, if you don’t win, you’re gone! I like that in an organization. They don’t take fail lightly. 

[Stradling]

51 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

And this is the part where I call bullshit.

First, if that was us, youd constantly harp about how weve outspent everyone but continue to lose in the playoffs to cheaper teams. And if anyone here mentioned how its hard enough just getting to the playoffs, youd point out that our rivals the giants won several rings with less money. In a bigger media market.

Youd point out we took on bostons bad contracts which got us nowhere, but helped boston rebuild. Youd point out how cleveland and houston also got to the playoffs for cheaper. 

Youd point out how they overpaid guys which kept them from fixing their pen.

But more directly, as I asked, whats their problem this year? 

Sorry claude. Your take over the thousands of broken record posts over the years doesnt support your last comment.

 

100%

would read again

[papawealey]

Lasagna.

Just because.

[Warfarin]

2 minutes ago, OHTANILAND said:

With all due respect it seems like you’re portraying the Angels organization as a relaxed no pressure to win just turn the page environment. 

In Boston and New York, if you don’t win, you’re gone! I like that in an organization. They don’t take fail lightly. 

We are not Boston or New York.  You should be happy about this, as that kind of environment is something Ohtani wanted to avoid, and now he is here

That said, there is always pressure to win and produce.  As I said earlier, if we were playing really poorly and far out of contention despite making the moves we did offseason, then yes, there should be some questioning in terms of our manager, GM, etc.  We are overperforming, not underperforming.  This is why we shouldn't be looking to replace Sosh now - why would you replace someone when he's helping guide the team to above the projected expectations?

[tdawg87]

11 minutes ago, OHTANILAND said:

With all due respect it seems like you’re portraying the Angels organization as a relaxed no pressure to win just turn the page environment. 

In Boston and New York, if you don’t win, you’re gone! I like that in an organization. They don’t take fail lightly. 

But they also spend a ton of money to accommodate the extremely lofty expectations and pressure.

So which is it? Do you want the Angels to be more like KC or Houston and win while spending wisely, or do you want Arte to get his dick out at every high priced free agent?

Edited May 19, 2018 by tdawg87

[Ohtaniland]

33 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

If the Angels win the WS Claude will say it's only because they bought it. 

The only way he is happy with the team is if the total payroll is the lowest in baseball by at least $30 million, and the highest paid player is only making $1.7 million per year and Arte isn't the owner and Sosh isn't the manager and Pujols is literally dead and even after all that he'd find time to mention that they could have won more WS rings if only they listened to him earlier.

Did you know that the Yankees intended lineup this season included...

Gardner LF

Hicks CF

Judge RF

Stanton DH

Sanchez C

Gregorius SS

Bird 1B

Drury 3B

Torres 2B

not one of these projected starters was signed by the Yankees as a free agent. 

 

[tdawg87]

Just now, OHTANILAND said:

Did you know that the Yankees intended lineup this season included...

Gardner LF

Hicks CF

Judge RF

Stanton DH

Sanchez C

Gregorius SS

Bird 1B

Drury 3B

Torres 2B

not one of these projected starters was signed by the Yankees as a free agent. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, OHTANILAND said:

Did you know that the Yankees intended lineup this season included...

Gardner LF

Hicks CF

Judge RF

Stanton DH

Sanchez C

Gregorius SS

Bird 1B

Drury 3B

Torres 2B

not one of these projected starters was signed by the Yankees as a free agent. 

 

That's nice. They still have the 7th highest payroll in baseball. The Red Sox have the highest. 

Do you want to succeed with a lower payroll or higher one? 

[Warfarin]

1 hour ago, UndertheHalo said:

I’m not talking about the talent pool they have which is good.   They’ve got tons of money also so they’ll generally be competitive.  We’re talking about 2 different things. 

Oh okay, I gotcha man, my bad.

[Ohtaniland]

4 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

 

That's nice. They still have the 7th highest payroll in baseball. The Red Sox have the highest. 

Do you want to succeed with a lower payroll or higher one? 

The Yankees payroll is currently lower than the Angels payroll so....

[Warfarin]

5 minutes ago, OHTANILAND said:

Did you know that the Yankees intended lineup this season included...

Gardner LF

Hicks CF

Judge RF

Stanton DH

Sanchez C

Gregorius SS

Bird 1B

Drury 3B

Torres 2B

not one of these projected starters was signed by the Yankees as a free agent. 

 

My friend, I know you badly want us to win, and I think we can all agree on that.  It sucks, we're struggling right now, but keep faith that we are heading in the right direction.

I know you praise the Yankees, but Eppler was Cashman's lieutenant.  Give Eppler some time to recreate what Cashman is doing.  The Yankees went through a bit of a dry spell (for them), and he even had one year in which he was allowed to trade some assets (Andrew Miller, Ardolis Chapman, etc) for prospects, which helped further fuel their rebuild.  They have a strong team now, but it took him some time to create it.

Eppler came in to a considerably worse situation.  Hamilton was still on the books, Pujols on the books for an eternity, virtually no minor league talent, etc.  Look at how great it is to follow our minor leaguers now - a LOT of them are making significant gains, and we have a legitimate drafting strategy now that is further fueling the rebuild.

We have Trout, and we just won the lotto and got another generational player in Ohtani.  We are a much better team this year than last, but probably not a WS contender just yet.  If you look at the progress we have made in two years under Eppler, I want you to take a step back and think of where we will be next year as well.  Each year has been met with significant strides; you just need to have faith man that it'll keep going.  Enjoy the ups and downs this year, enjoy the minor league growth, and just know we are very, very close.  Trust the process.

[Lou]

 

•  - it is likely he was playing through injury, hence his mediocre performance this year, and yep, he's out for the year, although likely to be back by April next year.  - you have no idea if he was playing through injury. He just as well could have just been healthy and having a mediocre season.
•  - there's an increasingly likelihood he opts in.  The back injuries, the forearm injury now... if he comes back and pitches really well, then he could opt out, but I think there's a decent chance he opts in - that's even worse. It means the dodgers get him if he's injured and/or pitching worse than expected. 
• - yeah, but the Dodgers will have a good amount of payroll room this offseason, and since they will have reset their luxury tax level, they probably won't mind going back over it, knowing they will probably easily go right back under it the following offseason when Hill + Kemp's contracts expire -it's still $40M, or approximately 20% of next year's payroll. Add in Kershaw's and you're up to 50%.
• - he's not earning much anyway, and I doubt he's part of their long-term plans - he's playing every day and they really don't have anyone better.
•  - Puig is NOT a free agent.  His contract runs up, but he actually has one more year of control beyond that. - then they can enjoy him and his .217 BA for another season  
• Ryu likely was not part of their long-term plan and is fairly replaceable - He has been their best SP with an era of 2.12 and a whip of 0.876. Sorry, but that isn't easily replaceable .
• Forsythe hasn't done much of anything for them, - they still need a 2B
• and as for Grandal, the Dodgers have by far hte most catching pipeline talent in baseball, so I think they'll be fine on the catching front.- Who do they have that'll replace his .278 BA and .383/.516/.898 line and OPS+ of 147?- 
• (re:Jansen) a poor 1.5 months doesn't mean he's finished.  Let's see how the rest of the year turns out - would you be happy knowing you owed him almost $20M/ for 3 more years? 
• yep, and I think they miss the playoffs this year, but they have a top-10 farm system and payroll room after this offseason, and combined with some bounce back performances, and I do think they are in good shape overall, just probably not this year.- you're banking on players : 1) coming off of serious injuries, 2) having bounce back seasons, 3) are currently in the minors and 4) who aren't in the organization 

 

[AngelsLakersFan]

2 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Calhoun cant pass the ball back to Lebron, and let him take all the shots. And the two lebrons cant take another shot until everyone else has.

That'd be a fun rule to throw into the NBA and just create chaos. 

[tdawg87]

10 minutes ago, OHTANILAND said:

The Yankees payroll is currently lower than the Angels payroll so....

By 3 million.

Also, please answer the question.

[Warfarin]

11 minutes ago, Lou said:

 

•  - it is likely he was playing through injury, hence his mediocre performance this year, and yep, he's out for the year, although likely to be back by April next year.  - you have no idea if he was playing through injury. He just as well could have just been healthy and having a mediocre season.
•  - there's an increasingly likelihood he opts in.  The back injuries, the forearm injury now... if he comes back and pitches really well, then he could opt out, but I think there's a decent chance he opts in - that's even worse. It means the dodgers get him if he's injured and/or pitching worse than expected. 
• - yeah, but the Dodgers will have a good amount of payroll room this offseason, and since they will have reset their luxury tax level, they probably won't mind going back over it, knowing they will probably easily go right back under it the following offseason when Hill + Kemp's contracts expire -it's still $40M, or approximately 20% of next year's payroll. Add in Kershaw's and you're up to 50%.
• - he's not earning much anyway, and I doubt he's part of their long-term plans - he's playing every day and they really don't have anyone better.
•  - Puig is NOT a free agent.  His contract runs up, but he actually has one more year of control beyond that. - then they can enjoy him and his .217 BA for another season  
• Ryu likely was not part of their long-term plan and is fairly replaceable - He has been their best SP with an era of 2.12 and a whip of 0.876. Sorry, but that isn't easily replaceable .
• Forsythe hasn't done much of anything for them, - they still need a 2B
• and as for Grandal, the Dodgers have by far hte most catching pipeline talent in baseball, so I think they'll be fine on the catching front.- Who do they have that'll replace his .278 BA and .383/.516/.898 line and OPS+ of 147?- 
• (re:Jansen) a poor 1.5 months doesn't mean he's finished.  Let's see how the rest of the year turns out - would you be happy knowing you owed him almost $20M/ for 3 more years? 
• yep, and I think they miss the playoffs this year, but they have a top-10 farm system and payroll room after this offseason, and combined with some bounce back performances, and I do think they are in good shape overall, just probably not this year.- you're banking on players : 1) coming off of serious injuries, 2) having bounce back seasons, 3) are currently in the minors and 4) who aren't in the organization 

 

I'm not going to continue to go out of my way to defend them or anything, and I agree with you that there is certainly cause for concern, but I do think they have a pretty good shot at rebounding next year.  They have a strong farm system and financial wiggle room once again, which is a good combination to have for any team.  What they ultimately do with it though, we will see.

[DEVLBAT]

18 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

My friend, I know you badly want us to win, and I think we can all agree on that.  It sucks, we're struggling right now, but keep faith that we are heading in the right direction.

I know you praise the Yankees, but Eppler was Cashman's lieutenant.  Give Eppler some time to recreate what Cashman is doing.  The Yankees went through a bit of a dry spell (for them), and he even had one year in which he was allowed to trade some assets (Andrew Miller, Ardolis Chapman, etc) for prospects, which helped further fuel their rebuild.  They have a strong team now, but it took him some time to create it.

Eppler came in to a considerably worse situation.  Hamilton was still on the books, Pujols on the books for an eternity, virtually no minor league talent, etc.  Look at how great it is to follow our minor leaguers now - a LOT of them are making significant gains, and we have a legitimate drafting strategy now that is further fueling the rebuild.

We have Trout, and we just won the lotto and got another generational player in Ohtani.  We are a much better team this year than last, but probably not a WS contender just yet.  If you look at the progress we have made in two years under Eppler, I want you to take a step back and think of where we will be next year as well.  Each year has been met with significant strides; you just need to have faith man that it'll keep going.  Enjoy the ups and downs this year, enjoy the minor league growth, and just know we are very, very close.  Trust the process.

I agree with this 100%.  

[Warfarin]

27 minutes ago, DEVLBAT said:

I agree with this 100%.  

Cheers my friend!

[ten ocho recon scout]

48 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

That'd be a fun rule to throw into the NBA and just create chaos. 

With our white ass bullpen and midget calhoun, i think wed be just as effective at basketball sadly.