C.J. Cron to the Tampa Bay Rays

[eaterfan]

2 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Nobody knows yet, but there have been some good PTBNL dealt over the years.

 

Aren't the chances of getting a good PTBNL worse than in the past? Didn't they change the rule so you can trade players recently drafted? I thought I heard that, but maybe that was just a proposal.

[Chuck]

1 minute ago, eaterfan said:

Aren't the chances of getting a good PTBNL worse than in the past? Didn't they change the rule so you can trade players recently drafted? I thought I heard that, but maybe that was just a proposal.

BTW, as I understand it. The team receiving the PTBNL knows which players they can choose from when the trade is complete, but it's not yet announced until a later date. 

[Ohtaniland]

12 hours ago, tomsred said:

Don't you think if Eppler could have dumped Pujols and his salary instead of Cron he would have done it.  There is no way out of this riddle.  I don't think first base is a difficult position to fill at this point, or virtually any other point during the season, if need be.  Eppler will figure this all out.  I like the versatility of this roster without Cron.  It certainly opens up space for Cowart, and I think he will eventually figure hitting out, in the meantime he's a terrific fielder at several positions.

 

Pujols is the franchise, just ask him. 

[Docwaukee]

I just realized who we're going to sign in place of Cron and it's going to give Troll Daddy super wood.  

[eaterfan]

1 minute ago, Chuckster70 said:

BTW, as I understand it. The team receiving the PTBNL knows which players they can choose from when the trade is complete, but it's not yet announced until a later date. 

Yes. What I'm saying is that when Trea Turner was a PTBNL it was because it was right after he was drafted (before he was eligible to be traded). If that trade happened under today's rules it would have been for Turner instead of a PTBNL. Calling him a PTBNL was just a charade to make the trade legal, it wasn't a representation of his perceived value.

[Chuck]

Just now, eaterfan said:

Yes. What I'm saying is that when Trea Turner was a PTBNL it was because it was right after he was drafted (before he was eligible to be traded). If that trade happened under today's rules it would have been for Turner instead of a PTBNL. Calling him a PTBNL was just a charade to make the trade legal, it wasn't a representation of his perceived value.

Oh yeah they fixed that. But it still doesn't rule out getting a good player like David Ortiz, Gio Gonzalez or Michael Brantley, Chris Devinski type, all whom were PTBNL.

BTW,  Mike Stanton, now Giancarlo may be the best PTBNL in baseball right now.

[AngelsLakersFan]

40 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

The one truly odd thing about this Cron deal is the timing.  Guys have been in camp all of a couple days.  Why not wait to see how things shake out a bit.  

But that makes me think the halos are getting a decent player in return.  Someone they targeted and felt strongly about getting.  

While I would certainly hope that was the case I have to think this is just wishful thinking. Eppler is concerned about the big club - that is his priority. He is going to make moves that he feels improves the big club and thus moving CJ Cron must have been decided upon before checking in on what the return might be. I don't see this as a Jerry Dipoto / Howie Kendrick type situation at all.

[Inside Pitch]

14 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

Aren't the chances of getting a good PTBNL worse than in the past? Didn't they change the rule so you can trade players recently drafted? I thought I heard that, but maybe that was just a proposal.

Trea Turner rule...    Basically, instead of waiting a full year, teams have to wait until after the WS in the year the player was drafted to be able to trade them....    The rule change made guys available sooner...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2015/05/01/mlb-union-amend-the-trea-turner-rule/?utm_term=.643143cc2154  from the article below:

"The new rule also provides that players in the most recent draft cannot be used as players to be named later during the summer after they’re drafted. They must remain with the club that drafted them until the day after the World Series."

 

[AngelsLakersFan]

18 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

It's certainly possible that Cron puts up a 120 OPS+ but that would be his career high. Why do you think he would do that? What makes you believe he's less likely to tank than Valbuena? Why are people so ready to give Cron the benefit of the doubt about scattered playing time but won't give Valbuena the benefit of the doubt about coming off an injury and missing Spring Training?

If the argument for why Cron wasn't succeeding in the past was that he wasn't going to get regular playing time, then it's a pretty self defeating argument. As long as Pujols, Valbuena, and Ohtani are on the roster, Cron won't be getting regular ABs.

Some fair questions for sure. Most importantly, Cron is 4 years younger, was more highly touted and has been fairly close to 120 before. Most importantly he is a player that had shown improvement every season up until last year. Valbuena was given every day playing time and was god awful the majority of the season.

I'm a big proponent of judging players based on what they do over ~200 every day plate appearances, and watching Cron the last couple of years I would be come more confident in his ability the closer he got to reaching that level of playing time. Valbuena, on the other hand, gave me the opposite impression.

There was definitely risk of CJ repeating his poor 2017 with similar playing time, but that is based on the assumption of health from guys who we should not assume to stay healthy. I expect there to be a solid 500 PAs at first base this year for a non-Pujols/Valbuena bat. With Cron out of the picture a good chunk of those are likely to shift to third base.

[bloodbrother]

Other shoe drops after Cron trade. Chris Carter is the pickup. Get excited

[eligrba]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

The one truly odd thing about this Cron deal is the timing.  Guys have been in camp all of a couple days.  Why not wait to see how things shake out a bit.  

But that makes me think the halos are getting a decent player in return.  Someone they targeted and felt strongly about getting.  

I am purely speculating but the timing could be to allow the Angels and Tampa spring training camps to both shake out before Eppler makes his decision.  Eppler may want to see what the needs are for the Angels and how the possible PTBNL candidates do based on spring training performances.

[Hubs]

The PTBNL is already likely set. The reason he is a PTBNL is unknown. 

[DMVol]

8 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Well if they were worried about that, they should have kept Cron. I don't like Valbuena as the everyday 1bman. I don't any faith that he will hit enough and his defense is suspect.

Eppler said Cron wasn’t versatile enough....may want an OF/1bman....don’t know...

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

11 minutes ago, DMVol said:

Eppler said Cron wasn’t versatile enough....may want an OF/1bman....don’t know...

The he should love Cowart He can play every where but catcher in a pinch. For sure the entire IF and OF corner positions.

[DMVol]

10 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

The he should love Cowart He can play every where but catcher in a pinch. For sure the entire IF and OF corner positions.

And his bat has been a wet noodle.

[totdprods]

12 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

The he should love Cowart He can play every where but catcher in a pinch. For sure the entire IF and OF corner positions.

No, he can't. He has 41 innings of OF experience at AAA and a dozenish games at SS. 

It took them nearly two years before they trusted his defense enough to stop getting guys like Franklin and give him an everyday look there, and that didn't even last long.

I don't doubt that he could develop into a guy who can play nearly every position, but he is currently a 3B/2B/1B and would need some more minor league reps elsewhere first before the Angels would consider him to be that versatile.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

4 minutes ago, totdprods said:

No, he can't. He has 41 innings of OF experience at AAA and a dozenish games at SS. 

It took them nearly two years before they trusted his defense enough to stop getting guys like Franklin and give him an everyday look there, and that didn't even last long.

I don't doubt that he could develop into a guy who can play nearly every position, but he is currently a 3B/2B/1B and would need some more minor league reps elsewhere first before the Angels would consider him to be that versatile.

I never said he would be a stud in the OF,  but his arm would play well in the OF. He would be a better OF than Marte I'm thinking. As a utility IF his bat becomes less important. His defense is very good.

[Warfarin]

24 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

The he should love Cowart He can play every where but catcher in a pinch. For sure the entire IF and OF corner positions.

I think we'll definitely see Cowart on the team, but as an up-and-down guy, depending on whether we want/need to carry more pitchers at the given moment.

For now, I see Rivera, Young, and Marte as the "core" bench (Marte to effectively platoon with Valbuena wherever he's at), with Cowart being up during the times we carry 5 SPs, and being sent down during the times we carry 6 SPs.

It's not that I think Marte is better than Cowart, it's just that Marte helps remedy Valbuena's weakness (hitting LHP) and, quite simply, Marte doesn't have an option whereas Cowart does.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

I guess we'll see soon enough. I just don't Marte is good enough to stick in the ML. It isn't up to me or you for that matter. I think whoever it is will have very limited playing time regardless.

[eligrba4ever]

30 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

I think we'll definitely see Cowart on the team, but as an up-and-down guy, depending on whether we want/need to carry more pitchers at the given moment.

For now, I see Rivera, Young, and Marte as the "core" bench (Marte to effectively platoon with Valbuena wherever he's at), with Cowart being up during the times we carry 5 SPs, and being sent down during the times we carry 6 SPs.

It's not that I think Marte is better than Cowart, it's just that Marte helps remedy Valbuena's weakness (hitting LHP) and, quite simply, Marte doesn't have an option whereas Cowart does.

If we see Cowart with the Angels this season, it will only be if something has gone terribly wrong and the team has no other option.

[Warfarin]

18 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

I guess we'll see soon enough. I just don't Marte is good enough to stick in the ML. It isn't up to me or you for that matter. I think whoever it is will have very limited playing time regardless.

On the bright side, last year at this same time, we were gearing up to enter the season with Cron, Espinoza (LOL), Simmons, and Escobar as our starting IF.  It's much more fun debating who the backups will be, while entering the season with a legit start 4 in the infield.

[Angel Oracle]

LOL if Cron ends up being the PTBNL, traded for himself.

[Lou]

On February 17, 2018 at 6:47 PM, OHTANILAND said:

Cron will finally be a 3-4 war player. 

Not a bad career 

[Blarg]

12 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

I don’t care how many positions Cowart can cover ... for me it’s offense first. That doesn’t mean that defense isn’t valuable. 

A bench player generally is not relied upon for their offense. If they were that good offensively they would probably be starters. 

A good bench player should be able to cover more than one defensive position at or above league average, have some baserunning skills and be able to bunt. Anything more is gravy. You are not expecting that guy to be a game changer with his bat.

[greginpsca]

2 hours ago, Warfarin said:

I think we'll definitely see Cowart on the team, but as an up-and-down guy, depending on whether we want/need to carry more pitchers at the given moment.

For now, I see Rivera, Young, and Marte as the "core" bench (Marte to effectively platoon with Valbuena wherever he's at), with Cowart being up during the times we carry 5 SPs, and being sent down during the times we carry 6 SPs.

It's not that I think Marte is better than Cowart, it's just that Marte helps remedy Valbuena's weakness (hitting LHP) and, quite simply, Marte doesn't have an option whereas Cowart does.

If Marte were to make the team, he won't be platooning with Valbuena. Valbuena will be platooning with Pujols at 1b.  Marte would only be a backup to Cozart at 3rd base.