C.J. Cron to the Tampa Bay Rays

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

8 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Something to consider too is that it doesn't really have to be "one or the other."  While Sosh has mentioned a 3-man bench, keep in mind it doesn't always have to be that way.  For example, we can start the season with 5 starters + a 4-man bench (with both Marte + Cowart), then when the 6th spot comes (Bridwell?), we option someone from the bench (Cowart) to create room.  Cowart would have to stay in the minors for 10 days, but he could get called back up again in the near future as needed, etc.

Options are fantastic and very useful.  I imagine Cowart will get optioned/called up a lot this season for this reason.  

If Cowart has but 1 option left how many time can he be sent down. I've never truly understood just how options work. Also don't some of our pitchers still have options so they can rotated in and out of AAA as needed?

[Stradling]

I think it’s all season. 

[Warfarin]

4 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

If Cowart has but 1 option left how many time can he be sent down. I've never truly understood just how options work. Also don't some of our pitchers still have options so they can rotated in and out of AAA as needed?

Great question!  So having 1 option refers to the year overall.  He can be optioned as many times as needed during the year.  This is why the option years are so valuable to the team.

[DMVol]

20 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Pujols, Valbuena are 1B platoon.

Pujols may be fine at 1b....or he may break down with leg issues, again....Just not comfortable with that plan.....

[stormngt]

13 hours ago, IheartLA said:

Valbuena really can't hit left handed pitching. When a LH starter is on the mound we're kind or missing a bat. I think Marte has the best chance unless another signing is made.

Just make sure Pujols is at 1b when we face a lh pitcher.  Problem solved.

[stevestevens]

Something no one has mentioned is that quite possibly the Angels saw Ohtani take BP in person and said "yeah, Cron is never going to DH when Ohtani is available". 

Maybe they were waiting to see him in person and he delivered big time and Cron was basically useless buried behind ohtani and pujols' contract 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

1 minute ago, DMVol said:

Pujols may be fine at 1b....or he may break down with leg issues, again....Just not comfortable with that plan.....

Well if they were worried about that, they should have kept Cron. I don't like Valbuena as the everyday 1bman. I don't any faith that he will hit enough and his defense is suspect.

[stormngt]

13 hours ago, arch stanton said:

How is Albert going to be the platoon partner at 1B on the days he's DH?

 'Let some else DH.  Have our 4th outfielder play and give Trout or Upton some dh time.

[AngelsLakersFan]

I think this move is a mistake unless there are plans to add a competent right handed power hitter with more versatility. 

I think Cron is a good bet to do better than a 120 wRC+ on Tampa this year (with good defense), which is something I do not expect from Pujols or Valbuena. Now I understand why the move was made, with all the roster break downs on here putting down Cron for ~30 starts at first this year he's not currently looking like a major piece. BUT that is the rosy picture of this scenario. The one where Valbuena can repeat his better second half and not his awful first half. The one where Pujols can miraculously play a good first base and not end up on the DL and the one where Cozart doesn't get hurt.

What is the team planning to do when Pujols is on the DL, Valbuena is rocking a .630 OPS and we're about to face a string of leftie starters?  What happens when Cozart inevitably ends up on the DL and Valbuena has to play a lot of third base (Cozart hasn't played more than 122 games since 2014, and only cracked 150 once)? 

The downside here is pretty bad. Valbuena and Pujols both cost us games last year. Marte was useless and god awful. Cowart is a useful defensive player, but not a first basemen with a stick. Is Cron a great player? No, but he is a competent every day first basemen - the only one we had on the roster and the only one we could expect to put up OK numbers when thrown into the lineup on any given day. Dumping Cron is this scenario is akin to canceling your home's fire insurence when the hills behind your house are ablaze. 

 

[eligrba4ever]

15 hours ago, JustATroutFan said:

This is a trade that will come back to haunt the Angels. Cron has potential to put up good numbers, like he did in 2016. With regular playing time and now playing a lot of games in a division that is loaded with hitters park, he might put up solid numbers like he did in 2016.

CJ came back to haunt the Angels every time he got the chance. And he was an Angel!

[UndertheHalo]

So do we have any inkling if an idea who this PTBNL could be ?

[JustATroutFan]

3 minutes ago, eligrba4ever said:

CJ came back to haunt the Angels every time he got the chance. And he was an Angel!

I agree, Wilson had only one good year with the Angels (2013) and the rest were either mediocre or below average. Paid too much money to sign him in December 2011. Along with Pujols, he stole money from the organization.

[Dtwncbad]

Valbuena is not reliable enough to count on.  To me the right idea was to get rid of both Cron and Valbuena and replace these two players with one legit 1B.

I hope that is what is going on.

I will take Logan Morrison and Cowart on the roster over Cron and Val.

[AngelStew43]

On the PTBNL, I like pitchers Travis Ott or Greg Harris.  Both spent last year in AA, both can start.  One LH, one RH.  I'd be happy with either.

[eligrba4ever]

13 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

This makes me kind of sad, I wanted Cron to get a chance to play everyday slump or n slump and know that the team wasn't going to sent him down until at least the All Star break. Maybe he wouldn't press so much to succeed and get in a hot streak and stay there the entire season. He has hit 16 HR over the last 3 years with limited playing time. I think he will hit 25+ in the ALE this season.

I wish him well...

He was out of options. He wasn't going to be "sent down."

[eligrba4ever]

13 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

At AAA Cowart hit .352/.442/.489/.931 against LHP.

The Bees will be thrilled to have him all season.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

Just now, eligrba4ever said:

He was out of options. He wasn't going to be "sent down."

So I have been told Twice, now three times. So just DFA him then, he stinks.

[eligrba4ever]

I have been rolling on the floor laughing for most of the past hour. I'm just catching up here. My delayed reactions are getting quick replies. 

[Docwaukee]

26 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I think this move is a mistake unless there are plans to add a competent right handed power hitter with more versatility. 

I think Cron is a good bet to do better than a 120 wRC+ on Tampa this year (with good defense), which is something I do not expect from Pujols or Valbuena. Now I understand why the move was made, with all the roster break downs on here putting down Cron for ~30 starts at first this year he's not currently looking like a major piece. BUT that is the rosy picture of this scenario. The one where Valbuena can repeat his better second half and not his awful first half. The one where Pujols can miraculously play a good first base and not end up on the DL and the one where Cozart doesn't get hurt.

What is the team planning to do when Pujols is on the DL, Valbuena is rocking a .630 OPS and we're about to face a string of leftie starters?  What happens when Cozart inevitably ends up on the DL and Valbuena has to play a lot of third base (Cozart hasn't played more than 122 games since 2014, and only cracked 150 once)? 

The downside here is pretty bad. Valbuena and Pujols both cost us games last year. Marte was useless and god awful. Cowart is a useful defensive player, but not a first basemen with a stick. Is Cron a great player? No, but he is a competent every day first basemen - the only one we had on the roster and the only one we could expect to put up OK numbers when thrown into the lineup on any given day. Dumping Cron is this scenario is akin to canceling your home's fire insurence when the hills behind your house are ablaze. 

 

The one truly odd thing about this Cron deal is the timing.  Guys have been in camp all of a couple days.  Why not wait to see how things shake out a bit.  

But that makes me think the halos are getting a decent player in return.  Someone they targeted and felt strongly about getting.  

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

5 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

The one truly odd thing about this Cron deal is the timing.  Guys have been in camp all of a couple days.  Why not wait to see how things shake out a bit.  

But that makes me think the halos are getting a decent player in return.  Someone they targeted and felt strongly about getting.  

Position players aren't scheduled to arrive until tonight. Some have arrived early.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

5 more days until the first spring training game with the A's.

[Chuck]

51 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

So do we have any inkling if an idea who this PTBNL could be ?

Nobody knows yet, but there have been some good PTBNL dealt over the years.

 

[eaterfan]

56 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I think this move is a mistake unless there are plans to add a competent right handed power hitter with more versatility. 

I think Cron is a good bet to do better than a 120 wRC+ on Tampa this year (with good defense), which is something I do not expect from Pujols or Valbuena. Now I understand why the move was made, with all the roster break downs on here putting down Cron for ~30 starts at first this year he's not currently looking like a major piece. BUT that is the rosy picture of this scenario. The one where Valbuena can repeat his better second half and not his awful first half. The one where Pujols can miraculously play a good first base and not end up on the DL and the one where Cozart doesn't get hurt.

What is the team planning to do when Pujols is on the DL, Valbuena is rocking a .630 OPS and we're about to face a string of leftie starters?  What happens when Cozart inevitably ends up on the DL and Valbuena has to play a lot of third base (Cozart hasn't played more than 122 games since 2014, and only cracked 150 once)? 

The downside here is pretty bad. Valbuena and Pujols both cost us games last year. Marte was useless and god awful. Cowart is a useful defensive player, but not a first basemen with a stick. Is Cron a great player? No, but he is a competent every day first basemen - the only one we had on the roster and the only one we could expect to put up OK numbers when thrown into the lineup on any given day. Dumping Cron is this scenario is akin to canceling your home's fire insurence when the hills behind your house are ablaze. 

 

It's certainly possible that Cron puts up a 120 OPS+ but that would be his career high. Why do you think he would do that? What makes you believe he's less likely to tank than Valbuena? Why are people so ready to give Cron the benefit of the doubt about scattered playing time but won't give Valbuena the benefit of the doubt about coming off an injury and missing Spring Training?

If the argument for why Cron wasn't succeeding in the past was that he wasn't going to get regular playing time, then it's a pretty self defeating argument. As long as Pujols, Valbuena, and Ohtani are on the roster, Cron won't be getting regular ABs.

[Tank]

As long he doesn't turn into Napoli or Trumbo, this isn't a bad deal.

[totdprods]

57 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

So do we have any inkling if an idea who this PTBNL could be ?

All that's been reported is it will be a minor leaguer, so presumably someone not on the Rays' 40-man. 
Depending on how long it drags out, I could still see one of their fringe 40-man guys come into play....a Dan Jennings, Jose Alvarado, Chaz Roe, Micah Johnson types. 

I've equated Cron's trade value around that of a non-prospect but productive 4th OF, a LHRP, or a Bridwell-type (pre-Angels) value.
I'd focus on Tampa's lefty pitching ranks first, as they have quite a bit - and we're a little thin.

Ryan Yarbrough is a name that's been floated here on the board. He was one of the prospects in the Smyly trade, currently #26 on MLB's Top 30. 
26 years old, 6'5" lefty - 26 GS at AAA last year with a 3.43 ERA, 1.16 WHIP in 157.1 IP with 39 BB, 159 K, 20 HR, and 144 hits allowed. Those stats almost feel like acquiring him would be too good to be true, but at the same time, he feels like he could be cut from the same cloth as guys like Nick Maronde, Michael Roth, or our own Jose Alvarez. Given our lack of upper-level left-handed pitching, he makes sense, but he also strikes me as a pitcher the Rays would want to hold onto this season.

Genesis Cabrera is ranked higher (#18), as is Brock Burke (#19) than the prospect Tampa received for Odorizzi (Palacios, who is now at #22 for Tampa) and I can't imagine we'd get more for Cron than what they got for Odorizzi, but again, they're heavy on left-handed pitching and how much stock can you put on MLB prospect rankings? Cron for Odorizzi actually may have been a reasonable trade now that we've seen the full deals, but the Angels didn't want to absorb the money, and Tampa may see something special in Palacios. Back to Cabrera and Burke, both of whom had strong '17 seasons, will slot into AA/AAA rotations for 2018. Cabrera (6'1", 170) got tagged in AA a bit but has been a consistent back-of-the-rotation/future reliever option over his career, playing against competition much older than him. Sort of reminds me of a left-handed Jaime Barria-type prospect before he emerged this past season. Burke similarly projects as a back of the rotation starter and has advanced quickly, likely starting 2018 in A+ but could be pushing AAA by end of year if he has a strong year.

Michael Velasquez is a wholly unremarkable lefty SP tabbed for AA. He was an undrafted FA, much like Shoemaker, and has a mediocre 4.58 career ERA in 265 IP (71 G, 41 GS) with a sky-high 10.9 H/9 - but his other per 9 trends aren't bad: 0.9 HR/9, 2.3 BB/9, and a 7.7 K/9. There doesn't seem to be much there, but Eppler has found talent in unexpected places before. Bridwell was fairly unremarkable as a minor-leaguer as well.

Ryan Boldt would basically be another Brennon Lund/Jonah Todd type outfielder. He'll likely be in AA to start the year, and posted a strong .295/.358/.407/.765 line at A+ last year, with 22 doubles, 6 triples, 5 homers, and 23 steals. He's a product of Erstad's Huskers, and he'd be a nice addition to our OF depths to replace what we dealt away with Montgomery and Pearson, giving us a little more insurance if we have to move Hermosillo or Jones for someone of impact in the next year. Nathan Lukes, a AA left-handed hitting outfielder with decent contact/discipline fits this mold too. 

Cade Gotta is interesting; he's built like a corner outfield (6'4", 200) but has played CF most of his career and has impressive speed (100 steals in 350 games, including 40 last year). A career .274/.344/.402/.745 slash in the minors isn't eye-popping, but he reached AAA last year, and has a curious blend of speed, contact, and discipline with the potential to grow into a power threat. Being from El Cajon, the Angels could have some interest in bringing him back to California and serving as a AA/AAA OF who competes with Hermosillo for some 4th/5th OF PAs as the year goes on.

Nick Ciuffo was considered a good bet to get snagged in the Rule V draft, but he didn't, and got popped with a 50-game suspension for a drug of abuse. Could be a reason he'd be stuck in PTBNL purgatory. Ciuffo has always been a good, even great, defensive prospect, but his bat took a huge step forward last year, jumping from a .584 OPS to a .704 OPS, nearly tripling his BB% from 3.7% to 10.1%, and going from 8 extra-base hits - all doubles - to 37 (29 doubles, 1 triple, and 7 HRs), adding to his intrigue. 

Brandon Lowe also likely falls into the 'too good to be true' range, but the Rays have accumulated quite a few dynamic MIF/3B prospects in Adames, Arroyo, Palacios, Fox, Marte, and Franco, so there's a chance someone like Lowe may be made available to clear some room on the depth charts. A 3rd round pick, the left-handed hitting Lowe earned a brief AA call-up after posting a huge .311/.403/.524/.927 line at A+ with 34 doubles, 3 triples, and 9 homers in only 90 games. While not particularly strong defensively or in the speed department, his contact, discipline, and power potential would make him a nice addition to our thin AA/AAA infield ranks in comparison to someone like David Fletcher.

SP Yonny Chirinos, RP Jaime Schultz, 3B Carlos Vargas, SP Travis Ott, RHP Greg Harris, and UT IF Andrew Velazquez all strike me as being potential targets as well.