Angels Sign Catcher Rene Rivera

[ettin]

1 minute ago, Troll Daddy said:

Perez’s problem was that he couldn’t hit ML pitching  ... I’m sure he’ll get another chance elsewhere 

I really think Colorado could be a great landing spot for him as he has always had more trouble with off-speed pitches and hitting in the thin Colorado air should help him tee up some of those sliders and curve balls he's had trouble with in other parks.

Really doesn't matter though, teams will want him for his defense. I seem to recall Dipoto saying that after he acquired Perez from the Astros he received calls on Carlos from other teams so I think there is interest out there.

Trade incoming (but nothing super spectacular).

[Docwaukee]

Rivera has hit lefties really well the last two years.  

Machete started to break down after the ASB and then really dropped off in his last 36 games with a 506 ops.  In those last 36 games, he had no walks.  Literally zero in his last 112 PA.  That's kinda nuts.  Guy was exhausted.  Hoping to hit a hr or double or go sit down. 

This is going to be more of a platoon than people think.  Like 100 games for Machete and 60 for Rivera.  

So the really weird thing is that they go spend 2.8m on a guy that they basically already have two of.   Is Rene Rivera really that much different than Juan Graterol or Jose Perez? Rivera is obviously a very good defender.  He's had a couple of oddly 'ok' offensive seasons but he's mostly been pretty awful.  As mentioned, solid vs. lefties the last two years but not exactly off the hizzz.  If he plays 50-60 games, is it really going to make that much of a difference over Perez or Graterol getting those at bats?  Is it worth the additional 2.3 mil?  Couldn't that have been better spent on a reliever?  

Here are a couple of theories:

1.  Perez really is terrible at handling the staff and sequencing.  Not sure about Graterol.  Maybe they both suck at it and the anticipated decreased load from Martin means that it could make a difference.  

2.  Rivera speaks Japanese.   (this is a joke.  he might, but I doubt it.  I have to explain this in parenthesis because of the delicate sensibilities of those on AW)

3.  Perez is being asked about in all kinds of trades.  This would be the most optimistic explanation.  Someone wants him as their primary backstop.  The Nats, Rockies and Jays all got awful production from the C position last year.   The Jays have Martin so they'll likely stick with him.  Wieters was awful on both sides of the ball.  Jose Lobaton is not a replacement.  The WAS lineup is deep enough to handle a defense first C.  I doubt they give the job to Pedro Severino.  Their pen isn't deep so I don't see us getting a reliever.  Maybe just a prospect?  

The Rox signed Iannetta.  So not sure they make a move for perez as well.   There are other teams out there so who knows. 

4.  Machete's defense was terrific but it was offset by his horrible bat.  They want to get him plenty of rest and need a known quantity.  

5.  Eppler and co. have metrics that demonstrate a decent amount of upside having Rivera over incumbent backups.  

6.  It's a reach.  A consequence of over analysis.  Something that makes a bit of sense in theory but won't play out practically.  

 

I hope it's #3 but I think it's a combo of 5 and 6.  

[Docwaukee]

36 minutes ago, ettin said:

I really think Colorado could be a great landing spot for him as he has always had more trouble with off-speed pitches and hitting in the thin Colorado air should help him tee up some of those sliders and curve balls he's had trouble with in other parks.

Really doesn't matter though, teams will want him for his defense. I seem to recall Dipoto saying that after he acquired Perez from the Astros he received calls on Carlos from other teams so I think there is interest out there.

Trade incoming (but nothing super spectacular).

they signed Iannetta.  I don't think they'll add another C.  

[ettin]

58 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

they signed Iannetta.  I don't think they'll add another C.  

Possibly but both of their catchers are young too and they can restrict service time by optioning them down and using them as depth. There have been some rumors floating around that they are looking for more veteran depth and they have still been tied to Lucroy. If they strike out on a more preferred name they may prefer someone like Perez or, as you said, may simply roll with Iannetta and Wolters.

EDIT: Of course I decided to go back and search for the article I read about it and can't find it so this may just be little critters crawling in my head talking nonsense to each other.

Edited January 10, 2018 by ettin

[Inside Pitch]

9 hours ago, totdprods said:

He'll likely clear waivers. Can't imagine anyone is going to put him on the 40-man when he's out for the year with a major shoulder surgery and lone start above Rookie ball in '17. 

I think this is what they are banking on, but a team with an open roster spot may jump on it and then stash him on their DL after opening day.   Angels lost a few guys trying this under Stoneman, the biggest example probably being Bobby Jenks.

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I think this is what they are banking on, but a team with an open roster spot may jump on it and then stash him on their DL after opening day.   Angels lost a few guys trying this under Stoneman, the biggest example probably being Bobby Jenks.

It's possible, but the difference between Jenks and Smith is pretty vast. If Nate had pitched in '17, I could see it happening, but even when he was healthy and pitching he didn't really get much notice - he was that Shoemaker-type prospect that just kept defying the odds and forcing any legitimacy he had as a prospect. 

Fingers crossed we keep him - they obviously like him since they've kept him on the 40 this long, but two missed years and a shoulder surgery are going to be pretty tough to come back from.

[Inside Pitch]

34 minutes ago, totdprods said:

It's possible, but the difference between Jenks and Smith is pretty vast. If Nate had pitched in '17, I could see it happening, but even when he was healthy and pitching he didn't really get much notice - he was that Shoemaker-type prospect that just kept defying the odds and forcing any legitimacy he had as a prospect. 

Fingers crossed we keep him - they obviously like him since they've kept him on the 40 this long, but two missed years and a shoulder surgery are going to be pretty tough to come back from.

Not comparing the players, just the situation -- in both cases the Angels were hoping teams would pass due to injury concerns. Jenks had only managed 8 starts the year before he was waived as he was still being used as SP.    The Angels gambled they could sneak him through due to injury concerns and Chicago pounced.   Another somewhat similar example would be Mason Tobin when he was exposed to the Rule 5.   Tobin was set to miss the 2010 season after TJ surgery in 09.  But despite the injury and having only gone as far as High A, the Cubs picked him and then the Rangers traded for him only to stash him on their DL for the entire season.   In 2011, having never pitched above HigH A, Tobin made his MLB debut.... sadly, he blew out his elbow again.

Anyway...  Hopefully he passes through waivers, I think he will but all I was saying is the risk is a team with an open roster spot might see the value in picking him up.  Regardless of what people think of him as a prospect, he managed to turn some heads with his showing in the Pan Am Games.

 

[DMVol]

8 hours ago, ettin said:

I really think Colorado could be a great landing spot for him as he has always had more trouble with off-speed pitches and hitting in the thin Colorado air should help him tee up some of those sliders and curve balls he's had trouble with in other parks.

Really doesn't matter though, teams will want him for his defense. I seem to recall Dipoto saying that after he acquired Perez from the Astros he received calls on Carlos from other teams so I think there is interest out there.

Trade incoming (but nothing super spectacular).

You would think they would have already traded Perez if there was much of a market out there....but maybe they wanted to wait until they had a Rivera type signed.....same with Cron.....may hold on to him unless they pick up a 1b/utility type guy.....

[totdprods]

Taylor Blake Ward‏ @TaylorBlakeWard 12m12 minutes ago

highest CS% percentage among active catchers with 3000+ innings:
- Yadier Molina, #Cardinals, 41.19%
- Rene Rivera, #Angels, 36.39%
- Ryan Hanigan, FA, 36.34%
- Martin Maldonado, #Angels, 36.23%

[stormngt]

12 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

Perez must be a shitty game caller and defensive backstop. 

Hope we can leverage his nice AAA for a package trade somewhere. 

Thought he got gold glove votes his rookie year

[jordan]

16 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Taylor Blake Ward‏ @TaylorBlakeWard 12m12 minutes ago

highest CS% percentage among active catchers with 3000+ innings:
- Yadier Molina, #Cardinals, 41.19%
- Rene Rivera, #Angels, 36.39%
- Ryan Hanigan, FA, 36.34%
- Martin Maldonado, #Angels, 36.23%

This makes me really like the move.  When Maldo isn't playing, it'll be almost like he still is, and then Maldo gets rest and hopefully we get more consistency from him on offense.

[Warfarin]

I am guessing it has to do with metrics we aren't necessarily privvy to.  I don't think CS% is a big deal with catchers UNLESS you have one that is truly awful.  I think pitch-framing and pitch-calling are way, way bigger factors when analyzing a catcher's defensive contributions, as they impact every single pitch of every single game they play in, vs CS%, which factors in on a smaller scale.

[Docwaukee]

12 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

I am guessing it has to do with metrics we aren't necessarily privvy to.  I don't think CS% is a big deal with catchers UNLESS you have one that is truly awful.  I think pitch-framing and pitch-calling are way, way bigger factors when analyzing a catcher's defensive contributions, as they impact every single pitch of every single game they play in, vs CS%, which factors in on a smaller scale.

I think Nagy and co. have made a concerted effort to better control the run game.  I agree though that the real value comes with pitch calling and framing.  

[Support The Local Team]

15 hours ago, Rico said:

Perez .352/.423/.502 at AAA.  What he do to piss Scioscia off?

He reminded Mike of his replacement (Piazza). So did Napoli. 

 

 

[disarcina]

Perez's defense is what got him sent out and had him in Scioscia's dog house.

Perez actually hit pretty well at times (and then not so well) -- but I don't think it's his bat that got him ratcheted down on the Halos depth chart.

Now with Maldonando and Rene Rivera -- Halos are going to be solid behind the plate and Scoiscia won't hesitate to start Rivera for Sunday day games and other selected games -- perhaps those day game get-away games after a night game and other 'business persons' special day games' -- again -- almost always a end of series get-away day for both teams.

[Chris]

Nate Smith has cleared waivers and it appears will remain with the organization.