More Andrelton Simmons p0rn

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

But that's the trade .

You can't say I hate what we gave up but love the trade. 

That's like saying I hate my wife but love being married

but you can say I hate what we gave up but I love the player we got in return.  

or I hate being married but I do it because I love my wife.  

(FTR - I love being married and I love my wife) 

there are trades we love the return and don't mid what we gave up.  Or we love the return and hate what we gave up.  Or this or that.  

Trades are not binary.  You don't have to decide whether you love or hate a transaction the very second it's made and stick to it for the rest of your days regardless of whether someone on AW bumps a threads 3 years later and says 'I agree' even though they didn't have an opinion in the first place.   

[Docwaukee]

Also, here's the 'devil's advocate' of the Simmons trade.  

We acquired an amazing player who's first two year with the club have been with a team that has gone 74-88, and 80-82.   We used organizational currency to basically waste two years of club control on that player.  

Would the team have been better of with a fledgling top of the rotation starter?  Zack Cozart at SS.  Moustakas at 3b.  Newcomb, Ohtani, Richards etc in the rotation?  

Who the hell knows if it works out that way.  But to make the trade worthwhile, don't we have to win something while Simmons is here?  A trip to the playoffs would justify, but so far, it's wasted currency.  

We got a great deal on a lawnmower but right now we live in a Condo.  We're planning on getting a nice house on a grassy piece of land but that's yet to happen.  We ride our mower around the condo parking lot but the association thinks we're nuts.  

It's like a guy from the inland empire buying a fancy toothbrush.  

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

But that's the trade .

You can't say I hate what we gave up but love the trade. 

That's like saying I hate my wife but love being married

But you can love your wife but hate being married. You can love your wife but want her sister. You can hate your wife but love her boobs.

 

Etc etc.

[ten ocho recon scout]

12 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Also, here's the 'devil's advocate' of the Simmons trade.  

We acquired an amazing player who's first two year with the club have been with a team that has gone 74-88, and 80-82.   We used organizational currency to basically waste two years of club control on that player.  

Would the team have been better of with a fledgling top of the rotation starter?  Zack Cozart at SS.  Moustakas at 3b.  Newcomb, Ohtani, Richards etc in the rotation?  

Who the hell knows if it works out that way.  But to make the trade worthwhile, don't we have to win something while Simmons is here?  A trip to the playoffs would justify, but so far, it's wasted currency.  

We got a great deal on a lawnmower but right now we live in a Condo.  We're planning on getting a nice house on a grassy piece of land but that's yet to happen.  We ride our mower around the condo parking lot but the association thinks we're nuts.  

It's like a guy from the inland empire buying a fancy toothbrush.  

You have a rep for good takes, but you shattered your own bests in that second half.

Simmons is the ribbed condom that we dont have a girl to take on a date, and put it on inside out yet. YET!

[Lou]

19 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

But to make the trade worthwhile, don't we have to win something while Simmons is here?  A trip to the playoffs would justify, but so far, it's wasted currency.  

No. 

That would mean every single transaction is a failure unless the team makes the playoffs. 

[Lou]

Is drafting Mike Trout a failure? 

[Docwaukee]

I shouldn't eat if I'm not going to become the king of France.  

trading a player vs. drafting one is exactly the same.  

black vs. white.

0 vs 1.  binary.  

 

[tdawg87]

This is the gayest conversation since cals pm'd me his dick.

[arch stanton]

Making the playoffs would be great but I have no regret about using organizational currency on Simmons. Watching him play in an Angels uni is plenty of payoff for the two bad seasons 

[Lou]

17 minutes ago, arch stanton said:

Making the playoffs would be great but I have no regret about using organizational currency on Simmons. Watching him play in an Angels uni is plenty of payoff for the two bad seasons 

Exactly.

imagine how much further away from a playoff spot we'd be if we hadn't made the trade. 

[ScruffytheJanitor]

5 hours ago, Dochalo said:

Also, here's the 'devil's advocate' of the Simmons trade. 

I presume you misspelled "worst take possible"

[JarsOfClay]

6 hours ago, Dochalo said:

Also, here's the 'devil's advocate' of the Simmons trade.  

We acquired an amazing player who's first two year with the club have been with a team that has gone 74-88, and 80-82.   We used organizational currency to basically waste two years of club control on that player.  

Would the team have been better of with a fledgling top of the rotation starter?  Zack Cozart at SS.  Moustakas at 3b.  Newcomb, Ohtani, Richards etc in the rotation?  

Who the hell knows if it works out that way.  But to make the trade worthwhile, don't we have to win something while Simmons is here?  A trip to the playoffs would justify, but so far, it's wasted currency.  

We got a great deal on a lawnmower but right now we live in a Condo.  We're planning on getting a nice house on a grassy piece of land but that's yet to happen.  We ride our mower around the condo parking lot but the association thinks we're nuts.  

It's like a guy from the inland empire buying a fancy toothbrush.  

Good post.  Similarly, I disliked the trade because I felt the angels were quite a ways off in making the playoffs.  I questioned why they would trade Newcomb who can develop into a potential ace by the time this team is ready to compete in a few years for a good and more expensive SS at a time when you're not gonna make the playoffs anyways?

The timing was the only reason I disliked the trade.

However, Eppler has managed to build a really solid team in a short period of time, but there is still a lot of uncertainty on this team that is going to have work out in order to reach the playoffs.  

[JarsOfClay]

5 hours ago, Lou said:

Exactly.

imagine how much further away from a playoff spot we'd be if we hadn't made the trade. 

Huh?  Newcomb came up this year and pitched very well.  Yet you're presuming Newcomb would have contributed 0 war last year and the next few years.

[Stradling]

In what world do you acquire arguably the best defensive short stop ever, entering his prime, under contract for five years, and not hate what you have to give up to get him?  

[DCAngelsFan]

9 hours ago, Lou said:

But that's the trade .

You can't say I hate what we gave up but love the trade. 

That's like saying I hate my wife but love being married

I dunno - I had a slightly different take on it, I had concerns that it was the wrong trade at the wrong time - that we gave up a pretty significant trade chip to get someone who didn't address our more compelling needs - I think I probably said something like "We just got shiny new rims for our ride; ignoring the fact that the engine won't start."

Felt like a certain opportunity cost there.   Of course, I feel much better about things since Newcomb hasn't progressed as well as I'd hoped at the time, and Simmons has been better than I expected.

But you can make a good value trade that's the "wrong trade, at the wrong time" - those aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

In what world do you acquire arguably the best defensive short stop ever, entering his prime, under contract for five years, and not hate what you have to give up to get him?  

when you don't realize how truly special he is defensively because you haven't seen enough of him and when he's a black hole offensively.  

two things that have been reconciled since the trade.  

[Stradling]

I remember the first time I really paid attention to him.  The Angels played a 3 game series against the Braves in Atlanta.  I couldn’t really believe what I was watching.  Like you have said Doc, many times, he made it look so effortless.  If I am not mistaken it felt like he single handedly beat us one or two of those games with his glove.

[Angel Oracle]

He was most certainly one of the reasons the Halos were in WC contention until mid-September.   Missing part of 2016 season may have contributed significantly to the 74-88 record that season.   If this 2018 team stays healthy enough, it could be a very fun season.  

[krAbs]

11 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

 

I came.

[Tank]

3 hours ago, JarsOfClay said:

Good post.  Similarly, I disliked the trade because I felt the angels were quite a ways off in making the playoffs.  I questioned why they would trade Newcomb who can develop into a potential ace by the time this team is ready to compete in a few years for a good and more expensive SS at a time when you're not gonna make the playoffs anyways?

The timing was the only reason I disliked the trade.

However, Eppler has managed to build a really solid team in a short period of time, but there is still a lot of uncertainty on this team that is going to have work out in order to reach the playoffs.  

good points, but the only thing i would add is that you can't build a team with just one trade or in just one year. it has to be done over time, and picking up simmons when we did - inspite of how we felt about it at the time or whether or not we love our wives - appears NOW to have been the right time to get him. if we didn't get him when we did, maybe someone else would have picked him up and we would have lost out completely.

[OregonLAA]

I’d love to make the playoffs so the world could watch what he can do at short

[AngelsLakersFan]

15 hours ago, Lou said:

That's like saying I hate my wife but love being married

Yet this strangely makes sense to me...

[AngelsLakersFan]

14 hours ago, Dochalo said:

Also, here's the 'devil's advocate' of the Simmons trade.  

We acquired an amazing player who's first two year with the club have been with a team that has gone 74-88, and 80-82.   We used organizational currency to basically waste two years of club control on that player.  

Would the team have been better of with a fledgling top of the rotation starter?  Zack Cozart at SS.  Moustakas at 3b.  Newcomb, Ohtani, Richards etc in the rotation?  

Who the hell knows if it works out that way.  But to make the trade worthwhile, don't we have to win something while Simmons is here?  A trip to the playoffs would justify, but so far, it's wasted currency.  

We got a great deal on a lawnmower but right now we live in a Condo.  We're planning on getting a nice house on a grassy piece of land but that's yet to happen.  We ride our mower around the condo parking lot but the association thinks we're nuts.  

It's like a guy from the inland empire buying a fancy toothbrush.  

I liked the trade when it went down but what you are saying here has always been my criticism of it in the time that has followed. The Simmons trade made sense in the context of putting a winning product on the field, and addressing the obvious holes on the roster. In that sense we have wasted two years of value waiting to pay off players we've had on lay away when we could've just gone for it at the time of the trade.

What Eppler would argue is that he has to work within the confines of the limitations put on him by ownership and circumstances throughout the league. In this case he had the chance to patch one of the biggest long term holes before it became a problem that he might not have had the resources or opportunity to patch down the road.

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

I think you have to look back at the trade with context to the timing. At the time, we were super short on pitching, and the one trade chip we had went out the door to bring in what seemed like ray ordonez. 

I dont think many projected his bat to come around like it did. If his glove was the same, and his bat was still atlanta-ish, it would be fair to not like the trade.

At the time, i hated it  it seemed like the kind of move a really good team makes to put themselves over the top, and that wasnt the angels at all. But i couldnt be happier being wrong than how it worked out 

[Lou]

On 1/9/2018 at 7:29 AM, JarsOfClay said:

Huh?  Newcomb came up this year and pitched very well.  Yet you're presuming Newcomb would have contributed 0 war last year and the next few years.

No, i don't presume that at all. I'm saying that he would have contributed less than Simmons. It really isn't that difficult to follow. 

And on what planet is his 1.570 whip considered "pitching very well"?

JC Ramirez had better numbers than Newcomb in 2017. 

 

Edited January 10, 2018 by Lou