It's okay to trade prospects for proven MLB talent

[ettin]

I will say this too.... If we had not landed Ohtani I think we would have ended up making a trade for another impact player. Shohei signing with the Angels really could have been a larger blessing in disguise, allowing us to retain some or all of our prospect capital.

[Redondo]

4 hours ago, ettin said:

I will say this too.... If we had not landed Ohtani I think we would have ended up making a trade for another impact player. Shohei signing with the Angels really could have been a larger blessing in disguise, allowing us to retain some or all of our prospect capital.

I think this is a very good point.  I am not a fan of trading away a lot of prospects for immediate impact unless its a young cost controlled player in return. Would rather see Eppler spend money on the right FA's and build the farm. If things go well some of these young guys will be stepping up to the roster and will young and cost controlled.

I am really excited to see what Shohei can bring to the Angels. Will he be able to come out strong enough to make the opening day roster or need some time in AAA to get adjusted? I have to assume the Angels are having someone break him in to our culture with food and language being the big hurdles. Especially on the road.

[Angelsjunky]

Most of the Astros core was acquired through drafting and amateur free agency. Bergman, Correa, Springer, and McCullers were all first rounders, Keuchel was 7th round. Altuve and Gurriel were amateur (international) free agents.

The only core player (star) they acquired via trade was Justin Verlander. They also did trade for McCann, Peacock, and Gonzalez.

Morton and Reddick were free agents. McHugh was picked up on waivers.

But the point with the Astros is that they are mainly built on really sucking for a few years and accumulating early first round draft picks. Correa was #1 overall, Bregman #2. Aside from Verlander, all of their trades were for complementary pieces and didn't bankrupt the farm. Verlander made sense because he filled an important need and the Astros already had their strong young core.

I think the Cubs were built in a similar fashion.

Considering that the Angels haven't tanked for a few years, as others have mentioned, what Eppler has done--turning the farm around from horrible to pretty decent, and also keeping the team vaguely decent and potentially contending next year--is rather remarkable. And he's done it without emptying the farm.

And he still has a stocked farm for potential mid-season trades, if need be.

[Angelsjunky]

48 minutes ago, Redondo said:

I think this is a very good point.  I am not a fan of trading away a lot of prospects for immediate impact unless its a young cost controlled player in return. Would rather see Eppler spend money on the right FA's and build the farm. If things go well some of these young guys will be stepping up to the roster and will young and cost controlled.

I am really excited to see what Shohei can bring to the Angels. Will he be able to come out strong enough to make the opening day roster or need some time in AAA to get adjusted? I have to assume the Angels are having someone break him in to our culture with food and language being the big hurdles. Especially on the road.

I've heard they've been talking to Josh Hamilton about "breaking him in to our culture."

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

**Edited post**

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

On 12/19/2017 at 4:15 PM, eaterfan said:

I missed Cabrera leading the Tigers to a WS win. Which year was that?

All joking aside, I don't think anyone here is against ever trading a prospect or multiple prospects. I think most people just want to see good trades that don't cripple the organization down the road. Eppler had shown a great ability to do that so far. He hasn't been shy about trading away prospects when he got a good deal. He's the one making the decisions so it doesn't matter.

As for my personal philosophy, I would try to make the organization as strong as it can be heading into the 2020 season. A solid young core and strong farm with financial flexibility will be far more convincing to Trout and other players than the team making the ALCS two years prior. But even if that's not enough to convince Trout to stay it could be enough to keep the team in contention after he leaves, especially if he needs a big return in a trade.

I think this should have been the approach since it became clear Pujols and Hamilton weren't going to help us reach a WS. I think Eppler has done a wonderful job of that so far while giving us the added bonus of being competitive a little earlier than I could have hoped. The payroll is stable with money coming off the books in the future, the core is younger, and the farm system is much improved. Another 2 years following this plan should see us with a top 10-15 farm, enough money to retain Trout or sign another big time FA, and be an annual 90 game winner.

None of the players who the Marlins got back in the Miggy Trade were a part of their World Series team! And the only two Andrew Miller & Cammeron Maybin are now seeing any kind of success.

Also, Miggy was dealt in 2007 the Marlins Won the World Series in 1997 & 2003 (Miggy's Rookie Year)...

https://www.blessyouboys.com/2017/12/4/16733640/detroit-tigers-miguel-cabrera-ten-years-later

 

Miggy got the Tigers to the World Series in 2012 vs the Giants. 2 MVP's during his time in Detroit  and 5 other times he was Top 10 in MVP voting. That was a Great Trade for a solid young Star!

Whether they won the WS is an after thought. Everything has to go right in the Playoffs and you need an entire team to do it.

[Inside Pitch]

10 minutes ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

**Edited post**

I have no idea what you may have written -- but I either strongly disagree or agree completely!   

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

14 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I have no idea what you may have written -- but I either strongly disagree or agree completely!   

You would, I was agreeing with you! I had to get the correct Quote.....

 

[T.G.]

I'm trying to remember back when the Red Sox traded Hanley Ramirez and Anibal Sanchez to the Marlins and got Josh Beckett, Mike Lowell and... that deal worked out for both sides, I believe.  Others were involved in the trade, but I didn't take time to look it up.

[Second Base]

On 12/19/2017 at 7:55 PM, Stradling said:

Or a Yelich

I like Yelich, but he's no Miggy. Barria, Canning, Adell and Marsh would be an huge overpay for a very good player. 

That'll tell you exactly how good those four are.

But if the Marlins were open to it, I'd send them Jahmai Jones, Matt Thaiss and Kole Calhoun. 

[WeaverFever]

14 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

I like Yelich, but he's no Miggy. Barria, Canning, Adell and Marsh would be an huge overpay for a very good player. 

That'll tell you exactly how good those four are.

But if the Marlins were open to it, I'd send them Jahmai Jones, Matt Thaiss and Kole Calhoun. 

Absolutely. Part of me thinks Adell might be something special. 

[Second Base]

26 minutes ago, Zardawg16 said:

Absolutely. Part of me thinks Adell might be something special. 

The next Byron Buxton. 

[tdawg87]

Every team's fanbase grossly overvalues what they have, and undervalues everyone else.

Jones, Thaiss, Ward, and Calhoun seems like a fair trade for a player like Yelich, at least from our perspective. But I guarantee that package would get laughed at. 

90% of us thought we got buttslammed by the Braves with the Simmons trade. And with the Street trade. 

I try to be more aggressive with trade proposals since we always give up more than we expect to. To me, a player like Yelich would cost nothing less than Adell, Marsh, Barria, and Rodriguez. I'm not sure if Maitan can be traded yet but if he can replace Marsh with him. 

[Second Base]

23 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Every team's fanbase grossly overvalues what they have, and undervalues everyone else.

Jones, Thaiss, Ward, and Calhoun seems like a fair trade for a player like Yelich, at least from our perspective. But I guarantee that package would get laughed at. 

90% of us thought we got buttslammed by the Braves with the Simmons trade. And with the Street trade. 

I try to be more aggressive with trade proposals since we always give up more than we expect to. To me, a player like Yelich would cost nothing less than Adell, Marsh, Barria, and Rodriguez. I'm not sure if Maitan can be traded yet but if he can replace Marsh with him. 

Oh I know that proposal wouldn't do it, I'm just showing how I value these guys.  But try looking at it from a pessimistic view. 

Barria - Throws too soft.  6 years of a back end starter. 

Adell - Great athlete, tons of power and speed.  Might be Yelich in 4 years. 

Marsh - See Adell. 

Rodriguez - Future reliever. 

So even if you'r not a fan of these guys, you're trading two upside OF's, a back end starter and reliever, all controllable and cheap in return for four years of a borderline all-star.  

Even a pessimists view says that's a pretty good trade for the Marlins. 

Me personally, I think that's a #3/4 starter, a future superstar, a future borderline star, and another future #3/4 starter.  the truth lies somewhere between probably.  Either way, it's too much to pay. 

[tdawg87]

10 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

Oh I know that proposal wouldn't do it, I'm just showing how I value these guys.  But try looking at it from a pessimistic view. 

Barria - Throws too soft.  6 years of a back end starter. 

Adell - Great athlete, tons of power and speed.  Might be Yelich in 4 years. 

Marsh - See Adell. 

Rodriguez - Future reliever. 

So even if you'r not a fan of these guys, you're trading two upside OF's, a back end starter and reliever, all controllable and cheap in return for four years of a borderline all-star.  

Even a pessimists view says that's a pretty good trade for the Marlins. 

Me personally, I think that's a #3/4 starter, a future superstar, a future borderline star, and another future #3/4 starter.  the truth lies somewhere between probably.  Either way, it's too much to pay. 

Yeah it's too much to pay, but I think that's what it would cost.

Which is why I'd rather keep Calhoun and the prospects. 

I think I'd only consider a package like that for Snell and Archer.

[Second Base]

43 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Yeah it's too much to pay, but I think that's what it would cost.

Which is why I'd rather keep Calhoun and the prospects. 

I think I'd only consider a package like that for Snell and Archer.

Well that was the long way around reaching the same destination. Agreed on both.

[Corona]

Trading prospects is okay if you have a lot of depth in the farm and/or young talent already on the team. (Ie the Astros for verlander or the dodgers for darvish) imagine the state of the franchise if we traded trout for someone like Braun in 2011 though. The farm would be gutted and the team now would still be recovering from that. Ultimately I don’t think it’s the best move to make right now unless you can come away with a solid contributor for a prospect in a position that we may not necessarily need. But it’s  hard to say what what the angels should do at the moment, definitely between a rock and a hard place with a lackluster farm and an mlb roster that has potential to make the playoffs yet still has some question marks, all while trying to make the most out of prime trouts years. 

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

Yeah it's too much to pay, but I think that's what it would cost.

Which is why I'd rather keep Calhoun and the prospects. 

I think I'd only consider a package like that for Snell and Archer.

I think Calhoun will be traded though. Jahmai Jones will likely spend more than half the season in AA this year, and Herm will have a heck of a year in AAA. Herm will be ready by the end of the year, and Jones by the end of 2019.

I don't see him outlasting two very good young OF like that. Herm might end up being a 4th OF, but Jahmai is expected to be a very solid major leaguer.

[Pujols4MVP]

MLB has the lowest rate of prospects turning into stars. Out of 50 rounds in the draft.....thats alot of players who will never make it past single A.

Out all the Top 100 prospect lists each year how many become stars ?

In other sports the top 25 guys have a much higher chance, trading prospects for proven talent is worth it the most in MLB given the rate of failure of MLB prospects.

Now if you got a prospect like Trout who you know is untouchable then you don't trade him, other top prospects of the past like Wood that had huge question marks, should have been traded for a impact player when their value was high.

[totdprods]

One of the other reasons I'd hesitate on Archer is that the Rays really have no need to deal him. He's hyper-affordable still, he isn't complaining publicly...the Rays can rightly sit back and wait for someone to over-pay on an offer and move him then, and Eppler has pretty much proven that he flatly does not overpay in trades (see Hernandez, Cesar), choosing instead to go the route where he underpays (Kinsler, Maybin, Espinosa, Escobar). At most, he pays a fair price (Simmons, Upton) so I can't really see Eppler breaking and making an offer Tampa can't refuse. Deeper clubs like the Yankees, Cubs, and Astros can make that move.

[Second Base]

Eppler likely won't get involved in the Archer sweepstakes. Our top prospects are considerably more talented than they are being given credit for. 

Ohtani, Adell, Maitan, Marsh and Jones are all going to be good players. Barria, Canning and Rodriguez will all be at minimum mid-rotation starters. 

They have eight legitimate prospects that will be better than an average major leaguer, and yet they only rank 15th.

The number one farm in baseball must have 30 future superstars I guess. Either that or these guys really don't know what the frick they're talking about.

[Stradling]

Or...

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

13 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Every team's fanbase grossly overvalues what they have, and undervalues everyone else.

Jones, Thaiss, Ward, and Calhoun seems like a fair trade for a player like Yelich, at least from our perspective. But I guarantee that package would get laughed at. 

90% of us thought we got buttslammed by the Braves with the Simmons trade. And with the Street trade. 

I try to be more aggressive with trade proposals since we always give up more than we expect to. To me, a player like Yelich would cost nothing less than Adell, Marsh, Barria, and Rodriguez. I'm not sure if Maitan can be traded yet but if he can replace Marsh with him. 

Hell has frozen over...... Agreed~

Between you and IP Ive agreed twice with you..... What is going on?... Happy Holidays~

[AngelStew43]

I hope Eppler plans on trading a couple of those prospects for Gerrit Cole.

[Second Base]

If Gerrit Cole is healthy and in form, then yeah, he's the sort of player you trade good prospects for.

I think he's healthy enough to pitch, but certainly not 100% or in form.