The Last Jedi (Spoiler Alert: Red wants you to know you're dumb if you jump into this thread without having seen the film.)

[RallyMo]

So we've got tickets for tonight, but there seem to be two camps on this one: AMAZING and WORST MOVIE EVER.

I'm pretty shocked at the latter. Can it possibly be that bad in some way?

I've got my hopes up.

[RallyMo]

Actually, it seems like most people that I know who have seen it absolutely did not like it at all.

Damn.

[Angel Oracle]

A Burbank theater apparently saw the sound go out for 10 minutes during last night's midnight showing.  

[well_red]

34 minutes ago, RallyMo said:

Actually, it seems like most people that I know who have seen it absolutely did not like it at all.

Damn.

Strange, the metacritic score is pretty dang high (http://www.metacritic.com/movie/star-wars-episode-viii---the-last-jedi).  The actual user reviews by normal people are extremely polarized though...  FWIW I thought the last one was surprisingly good.

[The Dude]

Ok... just got back a few hours ago from seeing this. Not really sure what im feeling right now. There was some really good stuff and then a few things that i didnt care for. Its a long movie with a lot going on,but is paced rather nicely, didnt drag at any points for me. Its still fresh,  definitely need to see it one or two more times. Right now id give it a 6/10, maybe 6.5.

[HaloCory22]

Great movie but not a good Star Wars movie. That's the best way to describe it. Some cool stuff but just some absolutely terrible stuff in there too. Disney has their finger prints all over this one.

[UndertheHalo]

See, I thought it was a pretty quintessential Star Wars movie.  It’s high points were knocked out of the park imo.  There’s one scene that’s really bad.  Other wise I thought it was great.  A lot of fun at the movies. 

For me, I think I’d rate it better then Force Awakens.  Which I also liked a lot.  I’ve heard people say it’s worse then Phantom Menace.  That is ridiculous.  It’s by a million miles better then any of the prequels.

[Thomas]

Seems a strange dynamic. Many people thought Force Awakens was too derivative and now many people say Last Jedi is not derivative enough. God knows that venn diagram probably overlaps a lot. I thought it was the best Star Wars film yet. I think the first three films are held on an entirely too high a pedestal. Yes, even Empire. The prequels were well the prequels and less said the better. Force Awakens honestly was a bit derivative, though I thought not nearly as much as many people say. I enjoyed Rogue One and thought it was a move in the right direction but the fan service was a little too much for me. I think, at least based on my initial impression, Last Jedi is the most complete of any of the films.

Spoiler

I appreciated the casino subplot. I like that it basically went completely wrong the whole time. Yet because the two characters, one rather flawed, did the right things morally, they may be rewarded based on the last scene. The force works in mysterious ways. Many seem to think it was pointless but I felt it fleshed out the characters quite well, especially the newest character Rose but I think the perception of it suffers from the interaction with the conflict between Poe and Admiral Holdo, as it seemed forced and awkwardly written. It was necessary as we watch Poe progress from an overconfident rash pilot to a seasoned leader, but it could have been done in a better manner. There is an interesting story there about a pilot who assumes just because he's an amazing pilot that he automatically is good at everything. Assuming he is better equipped in leading the remains of a fleet than a celebrated admiral and before that even with Leia herself. Dealing with the issues of youthful exuberance versus aged wisdom and lightly touching on gender issues. He spends the vast majority of the movie continually fucking up, albeit for noble reasons. The Dreadnought. The ill advised casino mission. Speaking too loudly about the evacuation plan leading to the betrayal. But with him eventually catching on to his flaws and making the adjustment. It's a very good character arc. But it suffers from the awkward interactions with the admiral and the rather large plot holes in the chase from the Last Order

 

[Rico]

There was a lot that felt like filler, it's not as fun as Force Awakens, but the ending was pretty solid IMO.

[HaloCory22]

23 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Seems a strange dynamic. Many people thought Force Awakens was too derivative and now many people say Last Jedi is not derivative enough. God knows that venn diagram probably overlaps a lot. I thought it was the best Star Wars film yet. I think the first three films are held on an entirely too high a pedestal. Yes, even Empire. The prequels were well the prequels and less said the better. Force Awakens honestly was a bit derivative, though I thought not nearly as much as many people say. I enjoyed Rogue One and thought it was a move in the right direction but the fan service was a little too much for me. I think, at least based on my initial impression, Last Jedi is the most complete of any of the films.

  Reveal hidden contents

I appreciated the casino subplot. I like that it basically went completely wrong the whole time. Yet because the two characters, one rather flawed, did the right things morally, they may be rewarded based on the last scene. The force works in mysterious ways. Many seem to think it was pointless but I felt it fleshed out the characters quite well, especially the newest character Rose but I think the perception of it suffers from the interaction with the conflict between Poe and Admiral Holdo, as it seemed forced and awkwardly written. It was necessary as we watch Poe progress from an overconfident rash pilot to a seasoned leader, but it could have been done in a better manner. There is an interesting story there about a pilot who assumes just because he's an amazing pilot that he automatically is good at everything. Assuming he is better equipped in leading the remains of a fleet than a celebrated admiral and before that even with Leia herself. Dealing with the issues of youthful exuberance versus aged wisdom and lightly touching on gender issues. He spends the vast majority of the movie continually fucking up, albeit for noble reasons. The Dreadnought. The ill advised casino mission. Speaking too loudly about the evacuation plan leading to the betrayal. But with him eventually catching on to his flaws and making the adjustment. It's a very good character arc. But it suffers from the awkward interactions with the admiral and the rather large plot holes in the chase from the Last Order

 

Spoiler

I felt Rose was the biggest hypocrite ever in this movie. She starts off giving Finn shit for being selfish and putting himself ahead of the Resistance, yet the jackass potentially cost lives by pulling that shit in the final act in a selfish state. I couldn't stand her.

 

[Thomas]

24 minutes ago, HaloCory22 said:

  Hide contents

I felt Rose was the biggest hypocrite ever in this movie. She starts off giving Finn shit for being selfish and putting himself ahead of the Resistance, yet the jackass potentially cost lives by pulling that shit in the final act in a selfish state. I couldn't stand her.

 

Spoiler

Finn was the one violating a direct order. Even Poe realized the stupidity of heading straight into the cannon and losing more people and that isn't exactly his strong suit. The moments before the collision show the ship becoming more and more engulfed in the beam's effects. The story comes full circle as with Rose not allowing him to board the shuttle/pod and not sacrificing himself in a likely futile attempt to destroy the cannon. In both cases she prevents him from running away from his destiny in the resistance. She sees Finn as too important to the resistance and sacrifices her well being to save him. It also works as the "heroic pilot sacrificing himself for the greater good" is an entirely overused trope. How overused? It was used ten minutes earlier in the same damn film. So his sacrifice, which the audience was prepared for, getting literally rammed off course was an effective plot twist.

 

[The Dude]

Im curious what ya'll thought of...

Spoiler

how they handled Luke in this. Im not sure i agree with anything they've done with his character so far in the ST. They basically made it all his fault any of this is happening. He tries to kill Ben in his sleep? That i could never see Luke doing. And what exectly was the payoff for finding Luke, He really didnt teach Rey anything at all and then he dies. Guess Jedi dont need training anymore? It used to take a lifetime of training to become a competent force user. I know its not his story anymore,i just find it to be lazy to kill him off. its such a tired trope,old master dies. I mean Luke is only 55 in TLJ.  

 

[Tank]

just talked with one of my school parents. he thought a lot of it was focused on keeping the series relevant for millenials.

he also said there are light saber fights, good guys and bad guys (depending on your persepctive), and flying vehicles. 

[The Dude]

1 minute ago, Tank said:

just talked with one of my school parents. he thought a lot of it was focused on keeping the series relevant for millenials.

he also said there are light saber fights, good guys and bad guys (depending on your persepctive), and flying vehicles. 

I could totally see that. I feel like that's the Disney influence right there. I dont care what anyone thinks of Lucas at least he had a vision and made his films they way he wanted. He didnt cater.

[Thomas]

14 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Im curious what ya'll thought of...

  Hide contents

how they handled Luke in this. Im not sure i agree with anything they've done with his character so far in the ST. They basically made it all his fault any of this is happening. He tries to kill Ben in his sleep? That i could never see Luke doing. And what exectly was the payoff for finding Luke, He really didnt teach Rey anything at all and then he dies. Guess Jedi dont need training anymore? It used to take a lifetime of training to become a competent force user. I know its not his story anymore,i just find it to be lazy to kill him off. its such a tired trope,old master dies. I mean Luke is only 55 in TLJ.  

 

Spoiler

Dude had some serious shit in his life. Raised without his parents on a crap planet. Aunt and uncle who raised him murdered by the empire. First mentor killed by a nightmare machine/Sith who killed his father and an entire planet. Destroys space station with countless people on it. Nearly killed by a wampa. Strange ass training by an overgrown frog. Finds out the  nightmare machine/Sith is his father. Loses hand to nightmare machine/Sith. Nearly eaten by a giant desert vagina with teeth. (Lucas had issues) Nearly killed by nightmare machine/Sith's boss while trying to save nightmare machine/Sith. Saves nightmare machine/Sith. Nightmare machine/Sith subsequently dies. Trains nephew. Fails miserably.  Dude deserves a bit of PTSD consideration.

 

[The Dude]

18 minutes ago, Thomas said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Dude had some serious shit in his life. Raised without his parents on a crap planet. Aunt and uncle who raised him murdered by the empire. First mentor killed by a nightmare machine/Sith who killed his father and an entire planet. Destroys space station with countless people on it. Nearly killed by a wampa. Strange ass training by an overgrown frog. Finds out the  nightmare machine/Sith is his father. Loses hand to nightmare machine/Sith. Nearly eaten by a giant desert vagina with teeth. (Lucas had issues) Nearly killed by nightmare machine/Sith's boss while trying to save nightmare machine/Sith. Saves nightmare machine/Sith. Nightmare machine/Sith subsequently dies. Trains nephew. Fails miserably.  Dude deserves a bit of PTSD consideration.

 

Spoiler

That is a good point, its just why has none of that bothered him in the 25 years before Bens Fall? Ben is what broke him finally? ehh as you pointed out he's been through hell and back already. I mean i guess its possible, i just dont buy it. and to cut himself off from the force? not even Old Ben went that far and he went through just about as much as Luke. Maybe i'll change my mind in time about how they handled him. for now though, i strongly dislike it. I mean why did they bring the OT3 back? just to kill them off? it would have been better to do a trilogy without them in it. Disney knew they would get buts in the seats, thats why. Its one thing that irks me about the ST so far, everything thing is bigger and stronger and badder than anything in the OT. Super powered Jedi with no traning, bb-8 can do anyting, Poe(and i like the character) can take on a destroyer alone. 

 

[Angel Oracle]

Under RottenTomatoes, the Tomatometer is at 93% and Audience rating is at 56%. 

[Chimi]

Very, very bold movie. I’m still unsure of the whole thing and I think I might be that way for a while. I definitely need to see it a couple more times to try and digest it. However, I think this is one of those movies that a lot of people will end up liking AFTER Episode 9 is released. Or at least people will find it much more enjoyable.  I think there is a lot of WTF moments going on in people’s head and once they see he entire trilogy completed, this movie will be much more appreciated.

 

31 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Im curious what ya'll thought of...

  Reveal hidden contents

how they handled Luke in this. Im not sure i agree with anything they've done with his character so far in the ST. They basically made it all his fault any of this is happening. He tries to kill Ben in his sleep? That i could never see Luke doing. And what exectly was the payoff for finding Luke, He really didnt teach Rey anything at all and then he dies. Guess Jedi dont need training anymore? It used to take a lifetime of training to become a competent force user. I know its not his story anymore,i just find it to be lazy to kill him off. its such a tired trope,old master dies. I mean Luke is only 55 in TLJ.  

 

Youre assuming Luke’s story is done in all of this.  I wouldn’t be surprised if he still has a rather large part in Episode 9.  Just because he’s dead doesn’t mean he’s gone from the story. Obi-Wan and Yoda proved that one. Speaking of Yoda, it wasn’t until he appeared and destroyed the tree that Luke woke up to what his purpose was. Rey wasn’t going to go back to the island after the way she was treated by him and finding out the story with Kylo. At this point the best thing he can do to train Rey is to die (which he said was his purpose on the island) and come to hear as a ghost.  

As for it being un-Luke like to kill Kylo in his sleep, he explains in the movie he realized the same thing. He hesitated in killing Kylo even though he said Kylo was pretty much the embodiment of the Dark aside at that point. But Kylo caught him standing over him and reacted towards it. Luke wasn’t going to kill Kylo even though he knew he should.

[Chimi]

9 minutes ago, The Dude said:

  Reveal hidden contents

That is a good point, its just why has none of that bothered him in the 25 years before Bens Fall? Ben is what broke him finally? ehh as you pointed out he's been through hell and back already. I mean i guess its possible, i just dont buy it. and to cut himself off from the force? not even Old Ben went that far and he went through just about as much as Luke. Maybe i'll change my mind in time about how they handled him. for now though, i strongly dislike it. I mean why did they bring the OT3 back? just to kill them off? it would have been better to do a trilogy without them in it. Disney knew they would get buts in the seats, thats why. Its one thing that irks me about the ST so far, everything thing is bigger and stronger and badder than anything in the OT. Super powered Jedi with no traning, bb-8 can do anyting, Poe(and i like the character) can take on a destroyer alone. 

 

In no way is Rey superpowered in this.  Both Luke and Snoke pointed this out. Luke said she was very powerful but it was also raw and she is very much unpredictable. That’s what scared him in the first place. 

As for Poe, he’s supposed to be in insanely skilled pilot. They haven’t shown it too much which I think they were trying to do him taking on the ship by himself, but character wise, he’s supposed to be unmatched as a pilot.

[The Dude]

4 minutes ago, Chimi said:

Very, very bold movie. I’m still unsure of the whole thing and I think I might be that way for a while. I definitely need to see it a couple more times to try and digest it. However, I think this is one of those movies that a lot of people will end up liking AFTER Episode 9 is released. Or at least people will find it much more enjoyable.  I think there is a lot of WTF moments going on in people’s head and once they see he entire trilogy completed, this movie will be much more appreciated.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Youre assuming Luke’s story is done in all of this.  I wouldn’t be surprised if he still has a rather large part in Episode 9.  Just because he’s dead doesn’t mean he’s gone from the story. Obi-Wan and Yoda proved that one. Speaking of Yoda, it wasn’t until he appeared and destroyed the tree that Luke woke up to what his purpose was. Rey wasn’t going to go back to the island after the way she was treated by him and finding out the story with Kylo. At this point the best thing he can do to train Rey is to die (which he said was his purpose on the island) and come to hear as a ghost.  

As for it being un-Luke like to kill Kylo in his sleep, he explains in the movie he realized the same thing. He hesitated in killing Kylo even though he said Kylo was pretty much the embodiment of the Dark aside at that point. But Kylo caught him standing over him and reacted towards it. Luke wasn’t going to kill Kylo even though he knew he should.

 

Spoiler

Thats exactly why im disappointed, i dont want to see another force ghost, its been done already. Theres no reason Luke should have been on that island, there was no explanation other than he was feeling sorry for himself. I mean after all these years he needed Yoda to tell him failure is the best teacher? I think he learned that in the OT. They didnt know what to do with Luke so they took the easy way out. I dont see why he and Rey couldnt have gone on adventures together similar to Obi/Anakin. Now that to me, would have been fun to see. I like the chemistry between Mark and Daisy. But its is what it is.

 

[Blarg]

4 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

A Burbank theater apparently saw the sound go out for 10 minutes during last night's midnight showing.  

There was the same problem this morning and the theatre refused to rewind and start it over because of "the schedule". Like those 10 minutes could be made up by cleaning the theatre quicker.

[The Dude]

16 minutes ago, Chimi said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

In no way is Rey superpowered in this.  Both Luke and Snoke pointed this out. Luke said she was very powerful but it was also raw and she is very much unpredictable. That’s what scared him in the first place. 

As for Poe, he’s supposed to be in insanely skilled pilot. They haven’t shown it too much which I think they were trying to do him taking on the ship by himself, but character wise, he’s supposed to be unmatched as a pilot.

 

Spoiler

Luke could barely lift one rock, did you see the amount and size of the boulders she lifted with no strain, it was as if she's been training for 20 years. I dont even think Yoda could make it look as easy as she did. and she sure is an extermely talented lightsaber duelist with literally no training in how to use one. The way she handled those praetorians... Im not really sure what they are going for here...but it sure comes of a super powerful.

that really comes off like a rant when i read it back, but i really dont hate the character im just trying to prove a point. they should have had a more gradual build up in power imo.

Poe i get that he supposed to be great, its just come on, theres being really skilled and then theres over the top. Its like a top ww2 ace taking on 50 fighters alone and surviving.

 

[Chimi]

10 minutes ago, The Dude said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Thats exactly why im disappointed, i dont want to see another force ghost, its been done already. Theres no reason Luke should have been on that island, there was no explanation other than he was feeling sorry for himself. I mean after all these years he needed Yoda to tell him failure is the best teacher? I think he learned that in the OT. They didnt know what to do with Luke so they took the easy way out. I dont see why he and Rey couldnt have gone on adventures together similar to Obi/Anakin. Now that to me, would have been fun to see. I like the chemistry between Mark and Daisy. But its is what it is.

 

Thats why I said let’s see what happens in Episode 9 before judging this movie. We really don’t know what’s going to happen with Luke. I feel they are already doing something different with Luke than what we’ve seen before. Luke projecting himself through the Force is something we haven’t seen before. Let’s see what he can do in death.  I keep thinking of what Obi-Wan said in ANH.  Strike me down and I’ll become more powerful than you can possibly imagine. Wonder if that has any truth with Luke also.

 

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, Tank said:

just talked with one of my school parents. he thought a lot of it was focused on keeping the series relevant for millenials.

he also said there are light saber fights, good guys and bad guys (depending on your persepctive), and flying vehicles. 

Fying vehicles? Dammit Tank, include that in a spoiler tag you are totally ruining this for me.

[Thomas]

43 minutes ago, The Dude said:

  Hide contents

That is a good point, its just why has none of that bothered him in the 25 years before Bens Fall? Ben is what broke him finally? ehh as you pointed out he's been through hell and back already. I mean i guess its possible, i just dont buy it. and to cut himself off from the force? not even Old Ben went that far and he went through just about as much as Luke. Maybe i'll change my mind in time about how they handled him. for now though, i strongly dislike it. I mean why did they bring the OT3 back? just to kill them off? it would have been better to do a trilogy without them in it. Disney knew they would get buts in the seats, thats why. Its one thing that irks me about the ST so far, everything thing is bigger and stronger and badder than anything in the OT. Super powered Jedi with no traning, bb-8 can do anyting, Poe(and i like the character) can take on a destroyer alone. 

 

Spoiler

 Ben was the closest thing he'd ever have to a son and his sister and best friend's son. There were other trainees as well at the temple. This was his chance to rebuild the Jedi Order. And he feels like he blew it. He watched Ben be seduced by the dark side and there was nothing he could do. This would be enough to cause most people to collapse emotionally.