Mariners acquire 2B Dee Gordon

[Ohtaniland]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

You do realize he will still use that money to sign other international players.  So if he gives up a prospect, gets a player and bonus money, and increases our chance at Ohtani, then it’s a good move. 

So tell me again why we didn’t jump in on a Gordon deal. I think we actually have a more suitable position for him or was it that Dipoto beat us to the punch. 

[Second Base]

Meeting Ohtani's criteria.

1. Japanese population: Dodgers/Angels, Mariners, Giants, Padres, Cubs, Rangers.

2. Opportunity for hitting and pitching: Giants, Angels, Mariners, Padres, Rangers, Dodgers, Cubs.

3. Money: Mariners, Rangers, Angels, Padres/Dodgers/Cubs/Giants.

4. Winning (long term and short): Dodgers, Cubs, Angels, Rangers, Padres, Mariners, Giants).

5. Previous success with Japanese: Mariners, Dodgers, Rangers, Giants, Padres (front office), Cubs, Angels.

6. Ability to forge own path: Padres, Angels, Cubs, Giants, Dodgers, Rangers, Mariners

The best overall fit: 1. Mariners 2. Angels, 3. Dodgers, 4. Giants, 5. Padres, 6. Rangers, 7. Cubs.

But this can all change depending on if he particularly emphasizes one area. But the best bet here is the Mariners, then the Angels.

[Troll Daddy]

“We’re not going to leave a stone unturned in the efforts to do it again if the opportunity arises,” Dipoto said. “We’ll be responsible in how we do it, but we understand this is a one-time buying opportunity and you have to be prepared. To me, the worst thing we can be is sitting on the sideline being too conservative, sitting on our hands when an opportunity to change the history of the organization comes along. Because this is what it might be.”

Seattle Times

He is bringing his A game and taking out the big guns ... he has said.

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, Calzone said:

So tell me again why we didn’t jump in on a Gordon deal. I think we actually have a more suitable position for him or was it that Dipoto beat us to the punch. 

Maybe Eppler doesn’t want to commit three years and $40 million for a low OBP guy, who gets most of his value from speed which we know is a depreciating skill set. Or Arte didn’t want to spend money on a guy busted for PED.  

[UndertheHalo]

I’m pretty confident that the Angels had done their work on Gordon a pretty solid while before Jerry Dipoto decided to make him a CF. 

I suspect that the Angels didnt particularly want Gordon.  

I mean comp who the Mariners traded for the Angels.  We would have given up one of our better prospects.  Fuck that. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

29 minutes ago, Calzone said:

So tell me again why we didn’t jump in on a Gordon deal. I think we actually have a more suitable position for him or was it that Dipoto beat us to the punch. 

Was wondering the same thing. Makes me think they have someone else targetted for 2B.

[Ohtaniland]

24 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Maybe Eppler doesn’t want to commit three years and $40 million for a low OBP guy, who gets most of his value from speed which we know is a depreciating skill set. Or Arte didn’t want to spend money on a guy busted for PED.  

Well Stradling, Gordon would’ve been a perfect fit for us at second base and that trade would’ve netted us an additional $1M in pool money that Dipoto would’ve then had to go search for. 

It certainly appears that Gordon was just sitting there ready for the taking and it’s not like there was a long term train wreck contract attached to him. Eppler missed an opportunity there. 

[UndertheHalo]

3 minutes ago, Calzone said:

Well Stradling, Gordon would’ve been a perfect fit for us at second base and that trade would’ve netted us an additional $1M in pool money that Dipoto would’ve then had to search for. 

It certainly appears that Gordon was just sitting there for the taking and it’s not like there was a long term train wreck contract attached to him. Eppler missed an opportunity there. 

I am extremely glad to see evidence that the Angels have moved away from the days of throwing away prospects for at best average to below average players past their prime.  

Dee Gordon would have come to the Angels and sucked.  Because that’s what almost always happens to the Angels.  He’s a one dimensional player who’s previous performance is skewed by PEDs.  Now he’s gonna deliver for Jerry exactly what he’s awesome at acquiring.  Disappointment.  Good riddance.  That million dollars isn’t gonna make or break the Otani deal.  There’s other 2b options out there.

Edited December 8, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[Ohtaniland]

2 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I am extremely glad to see evidence that the Angels have moved away from the days of throwing away prospects for at best average to below average players past their prime.  

Dee Gordon would have come to the Angels and sucked.  Because that’s what almost always happens to the Angels.  He’s a one dimensional player who’s previous performance is skewed by PEDs.  Now he’s gonna deliver for Jerry exactly what he’s awesome at acquiring.  Disappointment.  Good riddance.  That million dollars isn’t gonna make or break the Otani deal.  There’s other 2b options out there.

He averages 63 stolen bases a year. When have we ever had a guy like that hitting ahead of Mike Trout. He’s still young and his contract is a cupcake short term deal. But yeah let’s keep rolling the Pennington’s and Espinosa’s out there.

[Stradling]

Just now, Calzone said:

He averages 63 stolen bases a year. When have we ever had a guy like that hitting ahead of Mike Trout. He’s still young and his contract is a cupcake short term deal. But yeah let’s keep rolling the Pennington’s and Espinosa’s out there.

Claude, if he gets on base 30% of the time he would be a below average lead off hitter regardless of how many stolen bases he gets.  Also, since when is $40 million for a one dimensional former PED player?  There are so many options for 2nd base, there is no reason to give up prospects and $40 million for this one.  

[UndertheHalo]

6 minutes ago, Calzone said:

He averages 63 stolen bases a year. When have we ever had a guy like that hitting ahead of Mike Trout. He’s still young and his contract is a cupcake short term deal. But yeah let’s keep rolling the Pennington’s and Espinosa’s out there.

Great.  Let’s set the bar at “better then Pennington and Espinosa”.  I’m all for getting a 2b this offseason.  I believe that we have to.  It doesn’t have to be Dee Gordon.  And again, I’m pretty happy it’s not. 

And this idea that it’s not a serious contract.   Yea that’s fine.  But aren’t we in a window here to get good again ? Enough with the bandaids.  And if we have to have one.  I think we can do better then Dee Gordon.  I’m sick of Angels teams that have trash obp.  We don’t need Dee Gordon slapping his way to a .320 obp at the top of the line up.  Seriously what are the odds that he returns to pre suspension production ? Very low I suspect. 

Edited December 8, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[Ohtaniland]

10 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Claude, if he gets on base 30% of the time he would be a below average lead off hitter regardless of how many stolen bases he gets.  Also, since when is $40 million for a one dimensional former PED player?  There are so many options for 2nd base, there is no reason to give up prospects and $40 million for this one.  

 

8 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Great.  Let’s set the bar at “better then Pennington and Espinosa”.  I’m all for getting a 2b this offseason.  I believe that we have to.  It doesn’t have to be Dee Gordon.  And again, I’m pretty happy it’s not. 

And this idea that it’s not a serious contract.   Yea that’s fine.  But aren’t we in a window here to get good again ? Enough with the bandaids.  And if we have to have one.  I think we can do better then Dee Gordon.  I’m sick of Angels teams that have trash obp.  We don’t need Dee Gordon slapping his way to a .320 obp at the top of the line up.  Seriously what are the odds that he returns to pre suspension production ? Very low I suspect. 

What did he do wrong last season and why wouldn’t these numbers help us. 

 

[Docwaukee]

13 minutes ago, Calzone said:

He averages 63 stolen bases a year. When have we ever had a guy like that hitting ahead of Mike Trout. He’s still young and his contract is a cupcake short term deal. But yeah let’s keep rolling the Pennington’s and Espinosa’s out there.

Claude's old narrative:  we spent on big players.  spending money bad

Claude's new narrative:  we didn't spend money on big players.  not spending bad.  

[Ohtaniland]

2 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Claude's old narrative:  we spent on big players.  spending money bad

Claude's new narrative:  we didn't spend money on big players.  not spending bad.  

This is not an overspend on an old player. It’s a relatively cheap contract and it would’ve netted us more pool money. Gordon was the perfect fit for his age, productivity and short term contract.

63 stolen bases, who does that!

 

[Stradling]

What is the over under on stolen bases for Gordon this coming season?  I’ll say 40.  

[Tank]

41 minutes ago, Calzone said:

Well Stradling, Gordon would’ve been a perfect fit for us at second base and that trade would’ve netted us an additional $1M in pool money that Dipoto would’ve then had to go search for. 

It certainly appears that Gordon was just sitting there ready for the taking and it’s not like there was a long term train wreck contract attached to him. Eppler missed an opportunity there. 

You have no idea, nor does anyone else here, what kinds of conversations Eppler had or what plans the angels have. We're not privy to their process. Maybe there's something about Gordon they decided they didn't like. Maybe the Marlins didn't like whatever offer was made. Maybe they're targeting someone else. 

Let it play out instead of assuming our guy screwed up.

[Ohtaniland]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

What is the over under on stolen bases for Gordon this coming season?  I’ll say 40.  

So he would probably lead our team. Well Strad if you don’t think that Gordon would’ve been a huge upgrade on both sides of the ball I won’t try to convince you. 

[Stradling]

The Mariners basically traded 3 prospects and $40 million to replace Jarrod Dyson, with pretty much the same player, only with less defensive value.  I wonder how much Dyson will get on the open market.  Last year the difference in WAR was 3.1 (Gordon) to 2.6 (Dyson).

[mulwin444]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

What is the over under on stolen bases for Gordon this coming season?  I’ll say 40.  

This is going to compete with his "Pujols" takes next season, isn't it?  I can already smell it.  Pujols and Gordon.

[Rico]

Gordon was my third option behind Hernandez and Walker.  I hope we move fast on this front in the next few days.  Would hate to miss out on all three.

[VariousCrap]

Gordon and the money wouldn't have been a bad deal for the Angels if it led to Ohtani, but its my guess Eppler has a plan.

[Stradling]

Just now, Calzone said:

So he would probably lead our team. Well Strad if you don’t think that Gordon would’ve been a huge upgrade on both sides of the ball I won’t try to convince you. 

Sure he would be an upgrade, but Claude if the Angels gave up 3 prospects for him and spent that kind of money, you would have been railing on this deal.  If you say you wouldn’t then you are lying.  

[Ohtaniland]

3 minutes ago, Tank said:

You have no idea, nor does anyone else here, what kinds of conversations Eppler had or what plans the angels have. We're not privy to their process. Maybe there's something about Gordon they decided they didn't like. Maybe the Marlins didn't like whatever offer was made. Maybe they're targeting someone else. 

Let it play out instead of assuming our guy screwed up.

If we end up with someone at second base that’s better than Gordon I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I just can’t see how Gordon wouldn’t help improve our team. We’ll leave it at that.

[VariousCrap]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

The Mariners basically traded 3 prospects and $40 million to replace Jarrod Dyson, with pretty much the same player, only with less defensive value.  I wonder how much Dyson will get on the open market.  Last year the difference in WAR was 3.1 (Gordon) to 2.6 (Dyson).

 

In all fairness, if they end up getting Ohtani because of that extra million bucks, it was 100% worth it.

[Ohtaniland]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Sure he would be an upgrade, but Claude if the Angels gave up 3 prospects for him and spent that kind of money, you would have been railing on this deal.  If you say you wouldn’t then you are lying.  

You don’t know that. It was a salary dump. Dipoto jumped at the opportunity to claim more pool money. The Mariners didn’t even need Gordon. We do.