At least 20 dead and 30 injured in Texas church shooting

[Jason]

5 hours ago, fan_since79 said:

What's the problem with Chuck's post? The only thing wrong with it was Trump misspoke, because there were not "hundreds" in the church. But if the murderer had not been shot, he could have escaped and perhaps killed more people. He certainly had the ammunition. The man who confronted him and shot him is a hero and maybe saved a lot of lives.

 

Interesting hearing what this man has to say. Sure some of it will be hard for the lefties here to listen too.

[Jason]

10 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Im pro gun laws, absolutely. But, this situation also backs the argument about armed people being able to stop a threat.

Im not saying one side or the other is right. Far smaller news, more local example happened in Whittier 2 nights ago. Its a reasonable argument.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-clerk-shoots-robber-whittier-20171107-story.html

[Tank]

11 hours ago, fan_since79 said:

What's the problem with Chuck's post? The only thing wrong with it was Trump misspoke, because there were not "hundreds" in the church. But if the murderer had not been shot, he could have escaped and perhaps killed more people. He certainly had the ammunition. The man who confronted him and shot him is a hero and maybe saved a lot of lives.

reports are that the gunman had some 15 clips with him and emptied all of them in the church. haven't heard that he had more, so i'm not sure he was still an immediate threat to others at that particular point.

not trying to defend him and am certainly relieved he's gone, but thought it was worth mentioning this.

[Jason]

5 hours ago, Tank said:

reports are that the gunman had some 15 clips with him and emptied all of them in the church. haven't heard that he had more, so i'm not sure he was still an immediate threat to others at that particular point.

not trying to defend him and am certainly relieved he's gone, but thought it was worth mentioning this.

Maybe not but nobody knows what further actions he would have taken.

[fan_since79]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

Maybe not but nobody knows what further actions he would have taken.

That's right. We don't know how much ammunition he had left in his car. Reports are that more weapons were later found in the car. If he had been unhurt, he might have driven elsewhere and resumed his attack at another location. Who knows...

 

[gotbeer]

8 hours ago, Tank said:

reports are that the gunman had some 15 clips with him and emptied all of them in the church. haven't heard that he had more, so i'm not sure he was still an immediate threat to others at that particular point.

not trying to defend him and am certainly relieved he's gone, but thought it was worth mentioning this.

Well, he had at least one more clip on him when he ate a bullet.

[RallyMo]

On 11/7/2017 at 10:03 AM, Jason said:

It is the same logic.

Sure it is, but that's only an issue if you're insistent on applying it to these completely dissimilar items.

[Spirit]

The items are different but the cases are the same. Property is stolen from a someone. The person who stole the property uses it to end the life of someone else.  It’s very similar. 

 

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

On 11/6/2017 at 11:14 AM, Chuckster70 said:

Nate, I understand that. I think the point that @Jason & I are agreeing on is that 1. technology can fail,  2. what if I have gloves on, 3. what if my hands are sweaty because of a scary situation or otherwise (my fingerprint sensor on my phone will not work if my index finger is wet), etc. 

All it takes is a split second that you may need to defend yourself where something like this could mean life or death. 

Off topic, but had training the first half of the day and we practiced shooting with latex gloves (which id never thought to do before, but makes so much sense seeing how often we glove up). Definetely makes a difference from the comfort zone.

[Sully151]

On 11/6/2017 at 11:32 AM, Jason said:

The one in my nightstand doesn't have any lock of any kind. It's ready to go. When I'm not home it's locked in a 800 lb safe bolted to the foundation. 

So everytime you leave the house to get groceries or take the dog for a walk, you either lock it up or take it with you? Honest question, not trying to be a dick

[gotbeer]

They say Church was recording the sermon.  So it recorded the shooting all the way through.  I hope some jackass newspaper or lawyer doesn't file a suit to make that footage public.  

[Jason]

16 minutes ago, Sully151 said:

So everytime you leave the house to get groceries or take the dog for a walk, you either lock it up or take it with you? Honest question, not trying to be a dick

Yes. It only takes a few seconds to lock it up. There are a ton of options for safes these days. I have a permit to carry it too.

[AngelsFaninGA]

On 11/7/2017 at 4:00 PM, fan_since79 said:

What's the problem with Chuck's post? The only thing wrong with it was Trump misspoke, because there were not "hundreds" in the church. But if the murderer had not been shot, he could have escaped and perhaps killed more people. He certainly had the ammunition. The man who confronted him and shot him is a hero and maybe saved a lot of lives.

 

The problem with the whole "If only some good samaritan in the crowd had a gun fewer people would be dead" logic is that it leads to an escalating cycle. 

In the beginning, crazed lunatic illegally buys a handgun, kills 3 people. The response: "If only someone had a handgun, the whole situation could have been averted." So people go and buy handguns just in case. 

So the next crazed lunatic comes along, and knowing that someone might have a handgun, buys a shotgun instead, and kills 10 people instead of 3. Then you get the same response.

So then the next crazed lunatic comes along, and buys 3 AR-15's, and brings along 2 duffel bags of spare ammo, and wears full body armor, and blocks off the exits, and sets up a tactical position where the good samaritans with the guns can't stop him right away. And so he kills 30 or 50 people instead of 10 or 3. 

Point being that militarization of civilians won't fix the problem, it'll likely just make it worse, because someone who intends to kill will still do so, he'll now just put a lot more preparation and thought into in order to maximize the carnage.

At some point, the root cause of the problem needs to be addressed, whether it's increased incidence of mental illness, desensitization to violence, etc. But that actually takes time and thought, and no one wants that. 

[Sully151]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

Yes. It only takes a few seconds to lock it up. There are a ton of options for safes these days. I have a permit to carry it too.

Cool. I asked my Aunt  a similar question, since she has her young Granddaughter at her house all the time. She also wants a AR-15. When I asked her why she said "For when the next Civil War breaks out."

[Jason]

13 minutes ago, Sully151 said:

Cool. I asked my Aunt  a similar question, since she has her young Granddaughter at her house all the time. She also wants a AR-15. When I asked her why she said "For when the next Civil War breaks out."

Haha! Yeah, I just enjoy shooting mine. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, Sully151 said:

Cool. I asked my Aunt  a similar question, since she has her young Granddaughter at her house all the time. She also wants a AR-15. When I asked her why she said "For when the next Civil War breaks out."

It would be pretty badass if after she said that, she also mentioned she bought one of those drums that has a neck strap that you drum for people to march in cadence.