Would Yu sign Darvish if.....

[Mark68]

32 minutes ago, Calzone said:

Otani will end up with one of the three big market teams. 

Which three teams are you referring to? He's not allowed (at least theoretically, handshake deals aside) to get that much, because of his age, he falls under the international signing rules.

[Ohtaniland]

6 minutes ago, Mark68 said:

Which three teams are you referring to? He's not allowed (at least theoretically, handshake deals aside) to get that much, because of his age, he falls under the international signing rules.

He will end up playing for the Yankees or Red Sox or Dodgers strictly for marketing purposes and a higher probability of playing on the big stage sooner than later.

[totdprods]

I do think there is a good chance Darvish's presence would influence where Otani went and if there is a sense that you could get both, I would be open to Darvish, but I still max out around a 4/$75 or 5/$80, something on par with Weaver/Wilson money.

[Lou]

16 minutes ago, totdprods said:

but I still max out around a 4/$75 or 5/$80, something on par with Weaver/Wilson money.

Then there is no way you're signing Darvish 

[Lou]

31 minutes ago, Calzone said:

He will end up playing for the Yankees or Red Sox or Dodgers strictly for marketing purposes and a higher probability of playing on the big stage sooner than later.

What big marketing deals have Boston players signed in the past?

[Ohtaniland]

28 minutes ago, Lou said:

What big marketing deals have Boston players signed in the past?

The Red Sox organization is a marketing machine on its own. It’s now $2.7B strong. Otani would fit right in that market. 

[Lou]

18 minutes ago, Calzone said:

The Red Sox organization is a marketing machine on its own. It’s now $2.7B strong. Otani would fit right in that market. 

Who cares? You said he would sign with either NYY, LAD or Boston "strictly for marketing purposes..." 

What you just stated is why Boston would want to sign him, not why Otani would sign with Boston. 

How much of that would Otani get?

[Adam]

My business has to do with delivery drivers so, absolutely not. 

[Blarg]

Otani chooses so these discussions are kind of fruitless.

[Mark68]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

What big marketing deals have Boston players signed in the past?

I'm sure Dunkin' Donuts would love to have him...if he spoke English.

[Inside Pitch]

5 hours ago, Calzone said:

He will end up playing for the Yankees or Red Sox or Dodgers strictly for marketing purposes and a higher probability of playing on the big stage sooner than later.

Like Tanaka? 

His only big time marketing deal was with Mizuno -- a Japanese company....   He had the biggest endorsement deal on the Yankees valued at around 1M per person -- or half as much as what Albert Pujols was getting while playing in the small stage in Anaheim.

Pujols BTW ranked 5th among MLB players  behind Big Papi, Buster Posey, Robinson Cano, and Miguel Cabrera.    Joe Mauer was 8th behind Tanaka tied with Clayton Kershaw.

http://opendorse.com/blog/2016-highest-paid-athlete-endorsers/

 

[Ohtaniland]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

Like Tanaka? 

His only big time marketing deal was with Mizuno -- a Japanese company....   He had the biggest endorsement deal on the Yankees valued at around 1M per person -- or half as much as what Albert Pujols was getting while playing in the small stage in Anaheim.

Pujols BTW ranked 5th among MLB players  behind Big Papi, Buster Posey, Robinson Cano, and Miguel Cabrera.    Joe Mauer was 8th behind Tanaka tied with Clayton Kershaw.

http://opendorse.com/blog/2016-highest-paid-athlete-endorsers/

 

Let’s see how this plays out. Otani won’t be getting much upfront salary so the endorsement avenue is the way he’s going to get paid.

Many of the athletes mentioned in the article got their big contracts first and then secured endorsements to help subsidize their income. Otani will have to go the opposite way in case he gets injured. A bigger, more marketable team can help him get there. Additionally he’s probably looking for a team that’s currently very competitive and already winning more than 50% of their games. 

Oh and how does David Ortiz make more endorsement money than Mike Trout? It’s because he played for the Red Sox. If he had finished his career with the Twins he probably wouldn’t have had any endorsements. 

[tdawg87]

1 hour ago, Calzone said:

Let’s see how this plays out. Otani won’t be getting much upfront salary so the endorsement avenue is the way he’s going to get paid.

Many of the athletes mentioned in the article got their big contracts first and then secured endorsements to help subsidize their income. Otani will have to go the opposite way in case he gets injured. A bigger, more marketable team can help him get there. Additionally he’s probably looking for a team that’s currently very competitive and already winning more than 50% of their games. 

Oh and how does David Ortiz make more endorsement money than Mike Trout? It’s because he played for the Red Sox. If he had finished his career with the Twins he probably wouldn’t have had any endorsements. 

Yes and as we see with the next few on the list, San Francisco, Seattle, and Detroit are all huge, marketable teams. 

[Inside Pitch]

29 minutes ago, Calzone said:

Let’s see how this plays out. Otani won’t be getting much upfront salary so the endorsement avenue is the way he’s going to get paid.

Yes, I'm aware of his limited salary potential -- I'm the one that educated you on the particulars if you recall.    But none of that really matters.... the reality is being a NYY hasn't really helped Tanaka obtain any big marketing deals states-side....   Tanaka was just as huge of a deal when he came over - maybe even bigger because there WAS a huge bidding way and he did get big money.  Big money signings tend to create hype and Otani will be far more limited on that end of the spectrum.

39 minutes ago, Calzone said:

Many of the athletes mentioned in the article got their big contracts first and then secured endorsements to help subsidize their income. Otani will have to go the opposite way in case he gets injured. A bigger, more marketable team can help him get there. Additionally he’s probably looking for a team that’s currently very competitive and already winning more than 50% of their games. 

Sorry..  it just doesn't work that way...    Guys aren't passing on free money because -- "oh well I already made my bank playing baseball" -- those deals just aren't there because baseball has a limited audience.   Beyond that, the number one factor in driving endorsements is Q-rating...   People connect with people they like -- a guy that can't speak the language is already hurting himself in MLB's number one market.  When it's all said and done Otani being a baseball player will hurt his endorsement potential far more than playing in NYC or Boston will help it.   Baseball is on the low end of the scale when it comes to athlete endorsements, behind Golf, Tennis, Soccer, Football and Basketball, the fact that he has zero MLB track record won't help him either.   Thats just the reality of it all.  

Obviously you believe differently, and that's fine .  but based on the information we have -- playing for the Yankees has at best good for 1 Mil deal for Tanaka -- no other Yankee appearing on the list even got that much..    It's not like 1 mil is garbage, it's obviously on the high end for endorsement money among baseball players but nothing along the lines of what you are trying to make it out to be..

 

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Calzone said:

Oh and how does David Ortiz make more endorsement money than Mike Trout? It’s because he played for the Red Sox. If he had finished his career with the Twins he probably wouldn’t have had any endorsements. 

Q rating.   

Papi is a big loud gregarious guy who once got on National TV and said this is our fucking city after a terror attack -- that's how....  Having taken his team to two WS also helped.   Mike Trout is a boring dude...   He also seems to shy away from the spotlight.  

I know you're trying to drive one of your narratives as usual but try looking beyond your limited view for once.

BTW -- Joe Mauer..  career Twin made the list...    ahead of four Yankees.

[Ohtaniland]

47 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Q rating.   

Papi is a big loud gregarious guy who once got on National TV and said this is our fucking city after a terror attack -- that's how....  Having taken his team to two WS also helped.   Mike Trout is a boring dude...   He also seems to shy away from the spotlight.  

I know you're trying to drive one of your narratives as usual but try looking beyond your limited view for once.

BTW -- Joe Mauer..  career Twin made the list...    ahead of four Yankees.

Being that Otani is a pitcher / outfielder / DH and only 23 years old he will be more marketable then most of the MLB players. He’s also going to be working the international market. Those big market teams will try to capitalize on that because they know he will draw money and attention wherever he lands. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

12 hours ago, totdprods said:

I do think there is a good chance Darvish's presence would influence where Otani went and if there is a sense that you could get both, I would be open to Darvish, but I still max out around a 4/$75 or 5/$80, something on par with Weaver/Wilson money.

That's the issue. What determines where Otani goes is the posting bid. It makes zero difference where Darvish is.

[ukyah]

15 hours ago, Lou said:

Everything I've read says he would, or at least get very close to that amount. Remember, the Yankees spent $175M for 7 yrs on Tanaka 

was it 155 + 20 million posting fee? irregardless, i take your point.

it wasn't the point of the original thread, and i don't mean to hijack, but i just can't get behind that kind of expenditure for wholly unproven talent.

tanaka is actually an excellent case to point at to make this point. not only was tanaka unhittable in japan, he went 24-0 in his final year in japan with the stats to support it, but also was only 25 years old when he signed with the yankees. if he had done that in mlb, then he would have commanded those same dollars and more, but he came over here and he is very average, slightly above average.

i just can't see that as a wise investment. anyway, end of hijack. if otani is going to get 10/200 i wouldn't think that is a prudent investment for the angels.

[ukyah]

8 hours ago, Calzone said:

Let’s see how this plays out. Otani won’t be getting much upfront salary so the endorsement avenue is the way he’s going to get paid.

Many of the athletes mentioned in the article got their big contracts first and then secured endorsements to help subsidize their income. Otani will have to go the opposite way in case he gets injured. A bigger, more marketable team can help him get there. Additionally he’s probably looking for a team that’s currently very competitive and already winning more than 50% of their games. 

Oh and how does David Ortiz make more endorsement money than Mike Trout? It’s because he played for the Red Sox. If he had finished his career with the Twins he probably wouldn’t have had any endorsements. 

i suspect that has a whole lot to do with mike trout's personality and not mike trout's opportunities. boston, anaheim, LA have no bearing whatsoever. 

[ukyah]

2 hours ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

That's the issue. What determines where Otani goes is the posting bid. It makes zero difference where Darvish is.

not entirely. the max posting bid is now 20 million dollars. ties go to otani's discretion. i guarantee there will be many ties for him to choose from.

[Lou]

9 hours ago, Calzone said:

Oh and how does David Ortiz make more endorsement money than Mike Trout? It’s because he played for the Red Sox. If he had finished his career with the Twins he probably wouldn’t have had any endorsements. 

Ortiz made his endorsement money after leading the Red Sox to 3 World Series titles and becoming a beloved figure in Boston.  Coca Cola, JetBlue, MasterCard, Buffalo Wild Wings,etc came on board for his final "farewell" season. 

He didn't have any big endorsement deals before playing a game for Boston. 

Edited November 8, 2017 by Lou

[Lou]

52 minutes ago, ukyah said:

was it 155 + 20 million posting fee? irregardless, i take your point.

it wasn't the point of the original thread, and i don't mean to hijack, but i just can't get behind that kind of expenditure for wholly unproven talent.

tanaka is actually an excellent case to point at to make this point. not only was tanaka unhittable in japan, he went 24-0 in his final year in japan with the stats to support it, but also was only 25 years old when he signed with the yankees. if he had done that in mlb, then he would have commanded those same dollars and more, but he came over here and he is very average, slightly above average.

i just can't see that as a wise investment. anyway, end of hijack. if otani is going to get 10/200 i wouldn't think that is a prudent investment for the angels.

I don't disagree with your line of thinking. I was just making the point of what Otani could make on the open market.

[Lou]

49 minutes ago, ukyah said:

not entirely. the max posting bid is now 20 million dollars. ties go to otani's discretion. i guarantee there will be many ties for him to choose from.

After reading the limitations of what a team can pay Otani, I now think just about every team will submit the max bid. If they don't, it's because they think there's 0% chance of signing him. 

[Puget Sound Angel]

Saddle yourself with Yu's contract just to get the other guy? No thanks.

[Lou]

4 hours ago, Puget Sound Angel said:

Saddle yourself with Yu's contract just to get the other guy? No thanks.

I agree

It's such a dumb business model