Heyman: Angels likely to pursue Moustakas

[tomsred]

1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

Valbuena career OPS+ = 95

Moustakas career OPS+ = 96

 

Valbuena WAR since 2013 = 8.0

Moustakas WAR since 2013 = 7.2

 

 

Wow, I never would have thought that.

[tdawg87]

1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

Valbuena career OPS+ = 95

Moustakas career OPS+ = 96

 

Valbuena WAR since 2013 = 8.0

Moustakas WAR since 2013 = 7.2

 

 

This is bWAR, using fWAR the numbers since 2013 are:

Valbuena - 9.2

Moustakas - 8.3

And for those who like more advanced stats:

Valbuena career wrc+ - 96

Moustakas career wrc+ - 96

Valbuena career wOBA - .313

Moustakas career wOBA - .315

 

Not to mention, Mouse is just OK defensively. He's better than Valbuena but not by a ton. He's by no means a defensive whiz.

Basically, signing Moustakas would be a terrible move. Just let Valbuena take over and upgrade 2nd and 1st.

[Inside Pitch]

5 hours ago, Randy Gradishar said:

Hey, at least Modest Mous could be a cool nickname.

IMO the Angels should "Move on" from his horrible OBP skills.   As I've said repeatedly since before the offseason started, he is easil the most overrated bat on the market.    People will focus on the 38 Hrs and not see the mediocrity in everything else.

[tdawg87]

18 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

IMO the Angels should "Move on" from his horrible OBP skills.   As I've said repeatedly since before the offseason started, he is easil the most overrated bat on the market.    People will focus on the 38 Hrs and not see the mediocrity in everything else.

Another thing Valbuena is better at. 

LV career OBP: .315

MM career OBP: .305

Why does anyone want this guy? 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

20 hours ago, bloodbrother said:

If the Halos are gonna pursue a Royals CIF, Hosmer would be the wiser investment.

Boston Red Sox

Heyman | Red Sox expected to target Eric Hosmer this winter

[Lou]

Re: the comparison stats that have been pousted thus far: 

I've never cared about career stats. What has their production been over the last couple of years? 

 

[Inside Pitch]

6 hours ago, Lou said:

Re: the comparison stats that have been pousted thus far: 

I've never cared about career stats. What has their production been over the last couple of years? 

Both players have missed time the last three years -- but if you go back four seasons to make for a three year sample size ...

Moustakas - 1665 ABs -- .258/.313/.459 - 106 OPS+ 7.4 bWAR
Valbuena   -- 1551 ABs -- .233/.325/.440 - 110 OPS+ 6.4 bWAR 

Valbuena's offensive WAR is higher, but he had a negative 1.1 dWAR four years ago that drops him behind Moustakas.

 

[DMVol]

The one unknown with Moose is how his market will develop... every year, somebody gets way overpaid (Heyward a couple of years ago) and somebody else seems to surprise with a relatively flat market (think Vlad years ago for us, Santana, Drew others)...that might get fixed some with the qualifying offer change..we’ll see...

[UndertheHalo]

3 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Another thing Valbuena is better at. 

LV career OBP: .315

MM career OBP: .305

Why does anyone want this guy? 

i knew Moustakas was all over the place stats wise, but didn't realize how he comp'd to Valbuena.  Makes him look pretty undesirable.

[eligrba]

5 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

i knew Moustakas was all over the place stats wise, but didn't realize how he comp'd to Valbuena.  Makes him look pretty undesirable.

After watching Valbuena, it makes both look pretty undesirable.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, eligrba said:

After watching Valbuena, it makes both look pretty undesirable.

I think we saw the absolute worst of Valbuena.  If Valbuena had his typical year we wouldn’t be looking to solve third base.

[wopphil]

7 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

This is bWAR, using fWAR the numbers since 2013 are:

Valbuena - 9.2

Moustakas - 8.3

And for those who like more advanced stats:

Valbuena career wrc+ - 96

Moustakas career wrc+ - 96

Valbuena career wOBA - .313

Moustakas career wOBA - .315

 

Not to mention, Mouse is just OK defensively. He's better than Valbuena but not by a ton. He's by no means a defensive whiz.

Basically, signing Moustakas would be a terrible move. Just let Valbuena take over and upgrade 2nd and 1st.

This is a great point TDawg, you make a compelling argument.

I haven't watched enough of Valbuena to form an opinion on his defense at third. Is he at least average, or more along the lines of Escobar?

[eligrba]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I think we saw the absolute worst of Valbuena.  If Valbuena had his typical year we wouldn’t be looking to solve third base.

Let's hope so.  Isn't next season the last year of his contract?

[Stradling]

Just now, eligrba said:

Let's hope so.  Isn't next season the last year of his contract?

Yes.  I truly hope they actually upgrade third and second going into this season.  Use Valbuena as back up corner infielder. 

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, wopphil said:

This is a great point TDawg, you make a compelling argument.

I haven't watched enough of Valbuena to form an opinion on his defense at third. Is he at least average, or more along the lines of Escobar?

He’s better than Escobar defensively.  

[DMVol]

40 minutes ago, ThomasSutpen said:

The market wasnt flat for Vlad

Only other serious suitor was the O’s (he didn’t want to go there)...there were concerns about his back...his agent called us...5/75 for a player of his caliber was a steal, even 13 years ago...sounds pretty flat to me.

[DMVol]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

He’s better than Escobar defensively.  

So are you and me...

[Ohtaniland]

10 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Valbuena career OPS+ = 95

Moustakas career OPS+ = 96

 

Valbuena WAR since 2013 = 8.0

Moustakas WAR since 2013 = 7.2

 

 

Firm no on Moustakas

hater

[DMVol]

Vlad will be in the HOF...for him, it was a flat market, even in 04...Trumbo and Bautista aren’t exactly comparables... they had flat markets because they aren’t in Vlad’s class...

 

[AngelStew43]

On ‎11‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 9:27 AM, TroutField said:

Anybody interested in Zack Cozart for 2nd? Good defense, career year with the bat in ‘17, but he has played his entire career in the NL playing in Great American. 

 

Close to 5 WAR last year 

According to rumor, Cozart wants to stay at SS.

[Erstad Grit]

4 hours ago, ThomasSutpen said:

He turned down five year offers from both the Mets and Orioles before signing with the Angels. And its all relative but 75 million for vlad was a pretty big ticket outlay at a time when the team's whole payroll the year prior was 76 million. 

Jose Bautista and Mark Trumbo last year - those markets were flat. 

Dmvol is correct.  Vlads back was a major concern which scared most of the big spenders away. 

[Erstad Grit]

I don't understand the lack of interest in a great defensive 30hr 3b. This reminds me of beltre. 

[Blarg]

Moustakas does not remind of Beltre in any way. 

[tdawg87]

13 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

I don't understand the lack of interest in a great defensive 30hr 3b. This reminds me of beltre. 

The last couple pages should explain that.

Also "great defensive" is an incredible overstatement. Beltre is one of the greatest third basemen ever. Mouse isn't even close. Moustakas isn't even a top 10 defensive player.

[tdawg87]

6 hours ago, wopphil said:

This is a great point TDawg, you make a compelling argument.

I haven't watched enough of Valbuena to form an opinion on his defense at third. Is he at least average, or more along the lines of Escobar?

I would say he ranges from below average to bad, but still better than Escobar.

Mouse has a plus arm, but his glove is average at best. 

Both guys are not great options. But if the choice is between the two, just keep Valbuena.