The Official 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

[Stradling]

 

[jordan]

19 minutes ago, Stradling said:

 

Chris likes to joke. 

[DMVol]

24 minutes ago, Stradling said:

 

 

5 minutes ago, jordan said:

Chris likes to joke. 

If Maybin has a good first half, you can bet he'll be on the block in July.....

[Ohtaniland]

47 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

 

CC Sabathia is 37 with 2.8 WAR

I was referring to position players. 

[Ohtaniland]

50 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

 

CC Sabathia is 37 with 2.8 WAR

I was referring to position players. 

[Troll Daddy]

 

[Stradling]

PED or Drug of Abuse?

[Troll Daddy]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

PED or Drug of Abuse?

PED’s are 80 day suspension I think

[Ohtaniland]

On 2/21/2018 at 7:00 AM, Stradling said:

Isn’t Tanaka closing in on 30 years old?

Tanaka is going to be 30 next November. 

Not to say that the Yankee players are any better than ours but you can’t help but tip your hat to the youth movement that’s taking place in that organization. They’re set to be competitive for at least the next 3-5 years.

I think the Stanton contract is going to bite them eventually but if they pull off a couple of championships with him it’s tough to argue. 

I know that I beat the point a lot but I was hoping that the Angels would’ve already done this around Trout. I continue to see players being shuffled in after their 30th something birthdays expecting them to play at a championship level. Who knows maybe they can but for how long?

The age differences between the Yankees position starters and the Angels position starters are astonishing and it’s not even close. It’s stunning!

I still blame Dipoto/Arte because every move they made after signing Pujols/Hamilton became a panic button type “win now” move that set our “build around Trout” plans in a tailspin. I guess we’ll have to wait and see how it all plays out. 

[Chuck]

13 minutes ago, OHTANILAND said:

Not to say that the Yankee players are any better than ours but you can’t help but tip your hat to the youth movement that’s taking place in that organization. They’re set to be competitive for at least the next 3-5 years.

@OHTANILAND, the Angels are equally in a position to compete for the next 5 years based on the youth they have coming, in addition to a solid core of major leaguers on the roster. 

Because Toronto and Boston are solid team's, the Yankees are not guaranteed to make the playoffs this year. 

[Ohtaniland]

36 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

@OHTANILAND, the Angels are equally in a position to compete for the next 5 years based on the youth they have coming, in addition to a solid core of major leaguers on the roster. 

Because Toronto and Boston are solid team's, the Yankees are not guaranteed to make the playoffs this year. 

I absolutely agree that we are on a better course today than we were under Dipoto. I get it that the youth is coming but they may be 2-3 years away from making an impact. Do we have any promising young 2B, C, 3B or 1B guys that are in our system that will be ready to step in? 

I’m an Eppler fan but when you see the Yankees getting a young cost controlled Drury for a sack of nuts it’s kinda puzzling why we keep signing older position players  to “build around Trout” 

I think Drury would’ve been a great fit to build around Trout. Not 35 year old Kinsler. 

[WeatherWonk]

Ah, the Kool-aid stand has opened in Tempe, I see.

Seriously, how can anyone compare our farm hands with the Yankees? The Yanks have SIX in the top 100, according to BA. Or FIVE, according to Fangraphs. We have THREE, all in the bottom half of 100. I am ignoring Ohtani who "technically" is a farm hand, but no one expects him to start in the minors. Maybe if he was only a hitter, but his pitching skills will have him on the opening day roster, IMO.

And if the Yankees are not guaranteed to make the playoffs because of the respective strength of the RSox and Jays, then the Angels chances are even lower than that. I am not convinced TOR is that much improved. 

Minnesota is improved, too. Sano was missing for five weeks. Reed and Odorizzi added. Lots of games against the Tigers, WSox, Royals.

That second WC is an absolute dogfight.

[Chuck]

3 minutes ago, OHTANILAND said:

I absolutely agree that we are on a better course today than we were under Dipoto. I get it that the youth is coming but they may be 2-3 years away from making an impact. Do we have any promising young 2B, C, 3B or 1B guys that are in our system that will be ready to step in? 

I’m an Eppler fan but when you see the Yankees getting a young cost controlled Drury for a sack of nuts it’s kinda puzzling why we keep signing older position players  to “build around Trout” 

I think Drury would’ve been a great fit to build around Trout. Not 35 year old Kinsler. 

Drury is NOT a good second baseman. He's been average the past two seasons hitting in the hitter friendly confines in Arizona. Drury is just a stop gap until their 3B prospect is ready, which he's already on the cusp. Drury is a better 3B defensively than 2B. I'd rather have Kinsler this season. 

Who knows, maybe Jamahi ones is ready to take over 2B next season. 

[tdawg87]

3 minutes ago, WeatherWonk said:

Ah, the Kool-aid stand has opened in Tempe, I see.

Seriously, how can anyone compare our farm hands with the Yankees? The Yanks have SIX in the top 100, according to BA. Or FIVE, according to Fangraphs. We have THREE, all in the bottom half of 100. I am ignoring Ohtani who "technically" is a farm hand, but no one expects him to start in the minors. Maybe if he was only a hitter, but his pitching skills will have him on the opening day roster, IMO.

And if the Yankees are not guaranteed to make the playoffs because of the respective strength of the RSox and Jays, then the Angels chances are even lower than that. I am not convinced TOR is that much improved. 

Minnesota is improved, too. Sano was missing for five weeks. Reed and Odorizzi added. Lots of games against the Tigers, WSox, Royals.

That second WC is an absolute dogfight.

Remember when we had Wood, Kotchman, McPherson, and Mathis all coming up through the system? That's why rankings don't mean shit.

The fact is our farm is deeper and better than it has been in years. We have talent at the big league level with plenty of talent coming up through the system within the next few years.

[Chuck]

9 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Remember when we had Wood, Kotchman, McPherson, and Mathis all coming up through the system? That's why rankings don't mean shit.

The fact is our farm is deeper and better than it has been in years. We have talent at the big league level with plenty of talent coming up through the system within the next few years.

^

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, OHTANILAND said:

I absolutely agree that we are on a better course today than we were under Dipoto. I get it that the youth is coming but they may be 2-3 years away from making an impact. Do we have any promising young 2B, C, 3B or 1B guys that are in our system that will be ready to step in? 

I’m an Eppler fan but when you see the Yankees getting a young cost controlled Drury for a sack of nuts it’s kinda puzzling why we keep signing older position players  to “build around Trout” 

I think Drury would’ve been a great fit to build around Trout. Not 35 year old Kinsler. 

Drury is the epitome of what you don't give up prospects for when you can grab an Ian Kinsler or Neil Walker.  

Drury has some pop but no speed, below avg defense at 2b, and he doesn't get on base.  

This actually feels like something Dipoto would do for 'club control'.  

I think we can and will do better than that to solve 2b going forward.  

[DMVol]

5 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I think we can and will do better than that to solve 2b going forward.  

2bman going forward could be at 3b this year...

[Troll Daddy]

Jesse Chavez back to the Rangers 

[totdprods]

7 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

Jesse Chavez back to the Rangers 

Rangers starting to feel like the late Reagins/early Dipoto-era Angels. Poorly used money, thinning farm, unbalanced team, not many resources to help short-term and not a very clear plan on how to help long-term. 

Their collection of arms this offseason could wind up keeping them in contention, but they could also be really, really bad. It'll be interesting to see how Daniels handles these challenges.

[nando714]

2 hours ago, totdprods said:

Rangers starting to feel like the late Reagins/early Dipoto-era Angels. Poorly used money, thinning farm, unbalanced team, not many resources to help short-term and not a very clear plan on how to help long-term. 

I believe they could have some money coming off in the off season. Hamels, Beltre, Andrus 

[totdprods]

29 minutes ago, nando714 said:

I believe they could have some money coming off in the off season. Hamels, Beltre, Andrus 

All three of those will be interesting...they'll likely have enough need for pitching still that picking up Hamels $20m+ option (which could vest) is likely. He has a heavy $6m buyout too.

Andrus! Who knows what will happen there. That looked like a TERRIBLE contract that the Rangers were going to regret for a long time....until this year when he was suddenly worth it. And at the start of the offseason, it looked like he was a no doubt opt-out, which Rangers fans were mixed on, but after the FA market played out, it's back to being a little unclear. 

Beltre will also be interesting - he's performed well enough and is a clubhouse leader to the point where they'd likely like to have him back in even limited capacity (unless he wants to retire) and he surely won't cost as much, but could still eat up a roster spot and some playing time. 

Their pitching situation looks awfully bleak for the short-term, especially if they really rely on Minor, Moore, Fister, Volquez for this year and next, and for all they hype their farm receives, their farm has really underwhelmed. They've produced decent major leaguers...but not quite the level they'd hope for.
 

Jon Daniels has really been a pretty impressive GM for that org for a long time and has been right more than wrong, but some of his misfires have caught up recently. The trades for Lucroy and Hamels really hit them hard, the Choo/Fielder contracts stung, and the Odor extension really looks bad right now. He's backed himself into something of a corner of his doing for the first time, and it'll be interesting to see if he's truly talented enough to work himself out of it.

[totdprods]

Here's how weird their talented, young offense is, especially when weighted with OPS+.

Rougned Odor (~6/$45m rem.): .204/.252/.397/.649 with 21 doubles, 30 homers - but an OPS+ of 65 and -0.2 WAR.
Cliff Pennington produced a slash of .253/.306/.330/.635 and an OPS+ of 74 and 0.3 WAR. 

Nomar Mazara: .253/.323/.422/.745 with 30 doubles, 20 homers...and only an OPS+ of 92 and 0.1 WAR.
Kole's career-worst year was .244/.333/.392 and his OPS+ was 97 with 2.1 WAR.

Delino DeShields had a decent .269/.347/.367/.714 slash which equaled an 87 OPS+ and a solid 2.2 WAR. Stole 29 bases.
That's basically Cameron Maybin: .235/.333/.351/.685 slash with Angels, also good for an 87 OPS+, 1.8 WAR, and he stole 33 bases.

Joey Gallo mashed out 41 homers, and another 21 doubles and triples, good for a .209/.333/.537/.869 slash, an OPS+ of 121, and 3.2 WAR.
2016 versions of Luis Valbuena and Ian Kinsler topped that OPS by a hair with Ian pulling in 122 and Valbuena at 125.
Even 2016 Albert Pujols was in the same realm with an OPS+ of 113.

Working for them is the fact most of the guys are still pretty young and raw and have some room to grow, but it shows how ridiculous their ballpark inflates their numbers. 

Relying on Cameron Maybin, 2016 Luis Valbuena, Cliff Pennington, and a career-worst Kole Calhoun as your offensive core, coupled with a rotation featuring an injury-prone reliever transitioning to the rotation (Minor), another reliever transitioning (Bush), a 34-year old $20m pitcher whose K9 dropped from 9 to 6 and had a FIP closer to 5 than 4 (Hamels), and then a trio of guys like Bartolo Colon, Doug Fister, and Jesse Chavez for depth? 

Equating that to the 2013 Angels is generous. The 2014 Angels were a force somehow though without a dramatically different line-up, and I think that sums up how weird and unpredictable the Rangers immediate future is. Winning 90 games seems as likely as them struggling to win 70.

[jordan]

3 hours ago, totdprods said:

Rangers starting to feel like the late Reagins/early Dipoto-era Angels. Poorly used money, thinning farm, unbalanced team, not many resources to help short-term and not a very clear plan on how to help long-term. 

Their collection of arms this offseason could wind up keeping them in contention, but they could also be really, really bad. It'll be interesting to see how Daniels handles these challenges.

Yes I agree.  This off season has been pretty bleak for the Rangers.  I forsee them being really, really bad, like last place bad.  They will lose many 10-9 games.  That offense is still legit.  Mazara is very special, and Odor will probably be better. Their pitching is going to revert to the days when they had no pitching. 

[krAbs]

1 minute ago, jordan said:

Yes I agree.  This off season has been pretty bleak for the Rangers.  I forsee them being really, really bad, like last place bad.  They will lose many 10-9 games.  That offense is still legit.  Mazara is very special, and Odor will probably be better. Their pitching is going to revert to the days when they had no pitching. 

I have a feeling they will still kick our ass though. Texas just seems to have their way with us...

[jordan]

2 minutes ago, krAbs said:

I have a feeling they will still kick our ass though. Texas just seems to have their way with us...

Yes, that's true.  I live near Arlington and I think the Rangers have beat the Halos 4 of the last 5 times, maybe 5 of last 6 games I've seen in person.  It hasn't been fun to say the least.  But the times are a changin'.   I feel it!  This Angels team is much better on paper than the Rangers, and I hope that equates to the field.