More Thoughts & Prayers

[Glen]

36 minutes ago, Jason said:

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20170414/news/170419171/

No need for new laws or regulations if nobody is going to be held accountable. 

Why do you think she got off so lightly?

[Jason]

3 minutes ago, Glen said:

Why do you think she got off so lightly?

Who knows but it's stupid

[Vegas Halo Fan]

[Tank]

9 hours ago, RallyMo said:

Isn't this all more than likely both a people and guns problem rather than just one of them? Given that, shouldn't this be addressed on multiple fronts? Furthermore, doesn't it make anybody that insists on focusing on one side only a complete dunderhead?

thank you. there are so many levels in this issue to address - single parent homes, no father, bullying, mental health issues, access to guns, being a loner, video games, medication, isolation and lack of friends at school, etc. There is no one single cause, therefore there is no one single solution. but in this polarized climate, the middle area is completely missing. that has to change in order for anything meaningful to be accomplished to help this problem get addressed in a way that will actually do something useful.

[Mark68]

15 hours ago, floplag said:

 Why is this such an absolute to you, as if there is no other way a person could have killed those people?  If he couldn't get a gun maybe he builds a bomb and its twice as many dead.  

The person was sick, he made a decision to break our most sacred laws and kill... how is that something so easily ignored and the gun the only thing so many care about?

As for the moral high ground humanity stuff... thats self justification, not fact.  

It's because of the EASE of obtaining this particular weapon. Getting the materials to build a bomb, and then actually building one are time consuming and one has to go through quite some effort to do so. Also, if you're purchasing items that can be used to make a bomb, you get scrutinized by the FBI, ATF, and other government agencies whose attention you're probably not trying to draw. Not so with a gun purchase.

And if you want a gun, you only need to take a trip to a store, and as long as you haven't committed any crime--yet--you get to purchase something with which you can do massive amounts of harm. Why does it need to be so easy for people to get the tool that allows them to commit these heinous acts?

Is it that hard to understand? 

 

[halomatt]

16 hours ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

I've been waiting for the image that shows the English teacher has a fountain pen. 

[floplag]

9 hours ago, Mark68 said:

It's because of the EASE of obtaining this particular weapon. Getting the materials to build a bomb, and then actually building one are time consuming and one has to go through quite some effort to do so. Also, if you're purchasing items that can be used to make a bomb, you get scrutinized by the FBI, ATF, and other government agencies whose attention you're probably not trying to draw. Not so with a gun purchase.

And if you want a gun, you only need to take a trip to a store, and as long as you haven't committed any crime--yet--you get to purchase something with which you can do massive amounts of harm. Why does it need to be so easy for people to get the tool that allows them to commit these heinous acts?

Is it that hard to understand? 

 

Its not hard to understand at all, i simply think its nonsense.  

You realize bombs can be made from fertilizer, right?  

Im not disputing at all that many places are too easy, i agree with that completely, i fully support universal background checks and limitations for those with proven violent history.  

What i do not support is the assumption that any ban or more laws provide any form of guarantee that things would lesson or stop or the taking away a persons rights based on a "what-if". 

Be very careful about taking any rights away in a  situation where a persons hasnt yet done anything to deserve the penalty... thats a slippery slope with a bad ending.  

[Glen]

2 hours ago, floplag said:

Its not hard to understand at all, i simply think its nonsense.  

You realize bombs can be made from fertilizer, right?  

 

You realize what happened with fertilizer after the McVeigh bombing, right? And yet people can still fertilize their lawns and whatnot.

[floplag]

4 hours ago, Glen said:

You realize what happened with fertilizer after the McVeigh bombing, right? And yet people can still fertilize their lawns and whatnot.

So your position is that it cant happen again?  really?  
Part of me actually hopes they do ban everything outright so we can finally realize what a bullshit smoke screen it is when this shit keeps happening... of course then it will be too late but meh.  
We both know you cannot guarantee me these will stop, therefore i will not back giving up rights.  end of story.  

[Blarg]

Somehow I don't think flop has actually ended his story but just has writers cramp.

[tennischmp]

7 minutes ago, floplag said:

So your position is that it cant happen again?  really?  
Part of me actually hopes they do ban everything outright so we can finally realize what a bullshit smoke screen it is when this shit keeps happening... of course then it will be too late but meh.  
We both know you cannot guarantee me these will stop, therefore i will not back giving up rights.  end of story.  

Umm there is no guarantee that the wall will stop illegals from coming, in the speed limit will stop people from speeding, or the travel ban from stopping anything....

Plus I don't see anyone here suggesting to ban all guns, only certain types of them which still lets everyone keep their 2A right of bearing arms. In fact if all guns but the musket were banned that still wouldn't deny anyone their 2A right

[floplag]

Just now, tennischmp said:

Umm there is no guarantee that the wall will stop illegals from coming, in the speed limit will stop people from speeding, or the travel ban from stopping anything....

Plus I don't see anyone here suggesting to ban all guns, only certain types of them which still lets everyone keep their 2A right of bearing arms. In fact if all guns but the musket were banned that still wouldn't deny anyone their 2A right

i dont support any wall, but youre right on all counts. 
so again tell me why we need more laws as opposed to enforcing the ones we already have?  It isnt like murder is legal anywhere so... the rest feels pretty moot on many levels.  
I dont think people need machine guns for home protection, but i know too many people that have ARs to classify them as the problem.  
What we need is to stop focusing one a single piece of the puzzle and address root causes. till we do that and acknowledge that nothing changes.  

[Jason]

29 minutes ago, floplag said:

i dont support any wall, but youre right on all counts. 
so again tell me why we need more laws as opposed to enforcing the ones we already have?  It isnt like murder is legal anywhere so... the rest feels pretty moot on many levels.  
I dont think people need machine guns for home protection, but i know too many people that have ARs to classify them as the problem.  
What we need is to stop focusing one a single piece of the puzzle and address root causes. till we do that and acknowledge that nothing changes.  

ARs can make a great defensive weapon. If I had a large property, farm or ranch I'd sure rather have an AR than a pistol for self defense. To say there is no need for one is a dumb argument. That's what's nice about constitutional liberties, I don't have to have a need to exercise them.  

[tennischmp]

7 minutes ago, Jason said:

ARs can make a great defensive weapon. If I had a large property, farm or ranch I'd sure rather have an AR than a pistol for self defense. To say there is no need for one is a dumb argument. That's what's nice about constitutional liberties, I don't have to have a need to exercise them.  

You also don't have the constitutional liberty to own any type of weapon, just like you can't say anything you want just because you have the freedom of speech. 

[tennischmp]

1 hour ago, floplag said:

i dont support any wall, but youre right on all counts. 
so again tell me why we need more laws as opposed to enforcing the ones we already have?  It isnt like murder is legal anywhere so... the rest feels pretty moot on many levels.  
I dont think people need machine guns for home protection, but i know too many people that have ARs to classify them as the problem.  
What we need is to stop focusing one a single piece of the puzzle and address root causes. till we do that and acknowledge that nothing changes.  

Well murder is enforced, but the key is to make laws to help prevent the murders or lessen the carnage. 

Also it's not a single piece of the puzzle, it's one piece of the puzzle and all pieces need to be addressed.

 

[Jason]

12 minutes ago, tennischmp said:

You also don't have the constitutional liberty to own any type of weapon, just like you can't say anything you want just because you have the freedom of speech. 

The 2nd amendment also doesn't state what you can't own either. I'm not advocating for the right to own military weapons. That's already illegal and not part of the debate. Other than threatening harm to another person, I'm pretty sure I can say whatever I feel like. 

[Jason]

5 minutes ago, tennischmp said:

Well murder is enforced, but the key is to make laws to help prevent the murders or lessen the carnage. 

Also it's not a single piece of the puzzle, it's one piece of the puzzle and all pieces need to be addressed.

 

I think his point is that current gun laws are not enforced and he's right about that

[tennischmp]

6 minutes ago, Jason said:

The 2nd amendment also doesn't state what you can't own either. I'm not advocating for the right to own military weapons. That's already illegal and not part of the debate. Other than threatening harm to another person, I'm pretty sure I can say whatever I feel like. 

Yes and military weapons were once legal too until they were not.There are plenty of "arms" that you can't own and some believe ARs should be one of those. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Family of AR-15 Inventor Eugene Stoner: He Didn’t Intend It for Civilians

"Our father, Eugene Stoner, designed the AR-15 and subsequent M-16 as a military weapon to give our soldiers an advantage over the AK-47,” the Stoner family told NBC News late Wednesday. "He died long before any mass shootings occurred. But, we do think he would have been horrified and sickened as anyone, if not more by these events."

[Spirit]

I applaud the Stoner family for donating every dollar that family has made off of the AR-15 to charity. 

Good on them!

 

 

[Jason]

1 hour ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

Family of AR-15 Inventor Eugene Stoner: He Didn’t Intend It for Civilians

"Our father, Eugene Stoner, designed the AR-15 and subsequent M-16 as a military weapon to give our soldiers an advantage over the AK-47,” the Stoner family told NBC News late Wednesday. "He died long before any mass shootings occurred. But, we do think he would have been horrified and sickened as anyone, if not more by these events."

The AK-47 is a superior weapon too.  Up until just prior to WWII civilians could own military weapons. Stupid gangsters changed that

[arch stanton]

7 minutes ago, Jason said:

The AK-47 is a superior weapon too.  Up until just prior to WWII civilians could own military weapons. Stupid gangsters changed that

Gangsters who existed and thrived because an outright ban had created a booming black market. So let's create another one for them

[floplag]

1 hour ago, tennischmp said:

Well murder is enforced, but the key is to make laws to help prevent the murders or lessen the carnage. 

Also it's not a single piece of the puzzle, it's one piece of the puzzle and all pieces need to be addressed.

 

Agreed, but its not.  
The nay sayers are looking at one thing and one thing alone as if its going to stop it all, and it wont.  
Calling for gun reform while ignoring all the other parts of the puzzle is ostrich syndrome at its finest.  

[Jason]

19 minutes ago, arch stanton said:

Gangsters who existed and thrived because an outright ban had created a booming black market. So let's create another one for them

So the Tommy Gun wasn't to blame for what they did? Thankfully they outlawed it so the murders in Chicago would decrease 

[RallyMo]

11 hours ago, floplag said:

Agreed, but its not.  
The nay sayers are looking at one thing and one thing alone as if its going to stop it all, and it wont.  

Ummmm, that's because controlling guns strictly is the one and only thing that will change this. We need to lock down all firearms to solve this problem.

11 hours ago, floplag said:

ostrich syndrome at its finest.  

What in the world is ostrich syndrome? You can't just make stuff up willy nilly. Do you think that people are actually believing that they are birds or something?