More Thoughts & Prayers

[the dude abides]

20 minutes ago, Thomas said:

I assume when Rush said this the opposition went to work to prove him wrong. Anyone remember hearing a reaction? I assume this would be easy enough to reasonably verify. Maybe not?

I didn't think the NRA released membership info.  

[Thomas]

Just now, the dude abides said:

I didn't think the NRA released membership info.  

Being in the NRA is like someone who does crossfit. They'll tell you if they're a member.

[Kevin]

1 hour ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

Yeah, no NRA member has ever committed a mass shooting. An NRA member has stopped at least one though.

Again, I'm glad the he was there because he MIGHT have stopped more killings although we'll never know but I am confident that would be the conclusion. No one knows what would have happened.

Having said that, he stopped the shooter after he had left the church and twenty-six people were already dead while twenty others were wounded. The guy helped but the damage was already done and nothing was really "stopped." The Air Force was the one that had a chance to stop something and they failed. 

[Spirit]

1 minute ago, Kevin said:

Again, I'm glad the he was there because he MIGHT have stopped more killings although we'll never know but I am confident that would be the conclusion. No one knows what would have happened.

Having said that, he stopped the shooter after he had left the church and twenty-six people were already dead while twenty others were wounded. The guy helped but the damage was already done and nothing was really "stopped." The Air Force was the one that had a chance to stop something and they failed. 

 

You know that he was "done" after leaving the church?

 

 

[floplag]

How is it the NRAs job to stop any of this?  why are they under fire for it?  Its nothing that has anything to do with them.  Its a reach at best and just more finger pointing. 

[Kevin]

3 minutes ago, Geoff said:

 

You know that he was "done" after leaving the church?

 

 

Done as in referring to the church. The damage had already been done with twenty six people dead. Would have he continued his rampage? Most likely but I can't say for sure. 

 

That's what I meant. Makes sense to me.....shut up Geoff! 

[Make Angels Great Again]

21 minutes ago, Kevin said:

Again, I'm glad the he was there because he MIGHT have stopped more killings although we'll never know but I am confident that would be the conclusion. No one knows what would have happened.

Having said that, he stopped the shooter after he had left the church and twenty-six people were already dead while twenty others were wounded. The guy helped but the damage was already done and nothing was really "stopped." The Air Force was the one that had a chance to stop something and they failed. 

 

Why did he leave the church though? Maybe he knew he was being tailed by the guy and tried to escape?

Regardless, the POS murderer's life was rightfully put to an end. At the least he saved the taxpayers some money by avoiding a lengthy legal process.

[Make Angels Great Again]

18 minutes ago, floplag said:

How is it the NRAs job to stop any of this?  why are they under fire for it?  Its nothing that has anything to do with them.  Its a reach at best and just more finger pointing. 

 

Exactly! The NRA are the pro gun folks so they're the easy target to make appear morally devoid. It's really disgusting.

[Adam]

They're more or less pro gun manufacturer folks. They're quick to demonize civilian killers, but I don't think they ever get involved when cops shoot people unjustly. Cops buy way more guns than regular folks. 

[red321]

If the NRA didn’t actively work to stop any changes to our gun laws. If they hadn’t spent years blocking the naming of a head of ATF, or push for legislation that banned our public health agencies from even studying the issue of gun violence, or threaten to fund opposition candidates for any politician who even hints that maybe we should look at our guns laws, or push the idea that Democrats are days away from forcibly confiscating everyone’s guns,  or have someone like Wayne LaPierre or Dana Loesch push a narrative of a dystopian society where the only way to save you and your family is to arm yourself to teeth. 

Why do they get shit...because they deserve it. Because they have politicized the gun debate to extreme levels and because they are a significant detriment to having a realistic conversation on how can we come up with better gun laws. 

[Make Angels Great Again]

3 minutes ago, Adam said:

They're more or less pro gun manufacturer folks. They're quick to demonize civilian killers, but I don't think they ever get involved when cops shoot people unjustly. Cops buy way more guns than regular folks. 

 

I don't know if that's really an accurate description. The NRA does a lot of good work with gun safety. I would categorize them as simply pro gun.

And any organization with any brains is going to hold back on lambasting the police on controversial issues unless they're trying to gain the support of anti-cop folks, which is unfortunately a growing group.

[Make Angels Great Again]

8 minutes ago, red321 said:

If the NRA didn’t actively work to stop any changes to our gun laws. If they hadn’t spent years blocking the naming of a head of ATF, or push for legislation that banned our public health agencies from even studying the issue of gun violence, or threaten to fund opposition candidates for any politician who even hints that maybe we should look at our guns laws, or push the idea that Democrats are days away from forcibly confiscating everyone’s guns,  or have someone like Wayne LaPierre or Dana Loesch push a narrative of a dystopian society where the only way to save you and your family is to arm yourself to teeth. 

Why do they get shit...because they deserve it. Because they have politicized the gun debate to extreme levels and because they are a significant detriment to having a realistic conversation on how can we come up with better gun laws. 

 

That's a whole lot of pejoratives without anything to back it up. But par for the course I suppose.

[UndertheHalo]

4 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

That's a whole lot of pejoratives without anything to back it up. But par for the course I suppose.

How so ? The NRA is objectively involved in every single one of the items that Red rattled off.  You’re trying to frame the NRA like it’s a book club or something.  It definitely is not.  It’s highly politically active and it’s chief representatives have on many occasions made pretty outlandish scare tactic type statements.  It’s a far right organization. That gets involved in issues not only related to guns.  It’s not just some gun safety club.  

Edited February 27, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[Adam]

They buy politicians like all the other big money special interests. They're all evil

[Amazing Larry]

This shit will all blow over and I'll still be purchasing a gun next month at the OC gun show.

[Kevin]

16 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

Why did he leave the church though? Maybe he knew he was being tailed by the guy and tried to escape?

Regardless, the POS murderer's life was rightfully put to an end. At the least he saved the taxpayers some money by avoiding a lengthy legal process.

He left the church because he finished up shooting everything in sight possibly (more than likely would be my assumption). He was confronted by Stephen Willeford as he left the church and they exchanged fire with one another (Willeford hit him twice) Willeford knew about the shooting because his daughter alerted him that she had heard shots from the church while he was sitting in his home. So no tailgating?   

Again glad he was there, just unfortunately the damage had been done. 

 

[UndertheHalo]

3 minutes ago, LHalo said:

This shit will all blow over and I'll still be purchasing a gun next month at the OC gun show.

This is probably the most accurate statement made on this board today. 

[Adam]

My neighbor's 20 year old son has a nazi flag hanging in his room. I need to be able to get a gun. 

[red321]

You’re attempt to portray the NRA as a bunch of weekend shooting hobbyist is amusing. Maybe 40 years ago. One google search would laugh that one out of the park. 

I started a podcast this morning that talked about how the gun discussion morphed over the last 40 years. Prior to that the 2nd amendment was pretty much ignored.

Interesting to note, one of the first organizations that pushed the individual right, instead of militia, argument was...the Black Panthers. Which of course led to a slew of gun control legislation pushed by...Reagan...which then led to...rural white people afraid government was coming for their guns and a politicization of the NRA...and they made their first presidential endorsement in 1980 of....Ronald Reagan. 

 

only half way through radio lab podcast. Pretty straight down the middle, focus is more on how our gun discussion changed rather than right vs wrong.

 

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/radiolab/id152249110?mt=2&i=1000403538408

 

or check radiolab website

[Tank]

2 hours ago, Adam said:

What can they do? I'm pretty sure the vast majority of members and leaders are anti-murder. 

 

2 hours ago, mtangelsfan said:

I am at a loss of what you think they should do.  They have pushed for better communication between agencies, better prosecution for gun offenses and taught thousands of safety classes.  What you are asking is out of their scope.

here's what i'd like to see. i'd like to see them stop blocking efforts to study guns and gun violence in this country by the CDC (i'm not clear on why the CDC is the group to study this, but whatever - it needs to be done). I'd like to see them act like they give a flying phvck whenever there's a mass murder in this country and be willing to work with congress on finding reasonable things to slow down the types of weapons available to any of us. Every time one of these disasters happens, their tone is one of "well they shooter wasn't one of us and we denounce what they've done, but we have no interest in seeing any type of compromise on what the average joe can buy." They're getting in the way of meaningful dialogue and hopefully some substantive efforts at reform. Their position is usually for unfettered access for most anyone. They push an agenda of all of us arming ourselves.

[Adam]

They don't make laws. They're not elected officials. Congress doesn't need them to do studies on gun violence. They push an agenda just like the abortion people, the union people, the pharma people, the drone people, the coal people, the oil people, et al. This is how democracy works. Voters elect people and those people sell their souls. 

[the dude abides]

56 minutes ago, LHalo said:

This shit will all blow over and I'll still be purchasing a gun next month at the OC gun show.

 

[Blarg]

What I think is the dumbest argument is that Democrats don't own or use firearns only Republicans do. I have several co-workers that are staunch Democrats at the voting booth but own firearms, a couple actually go hunting. 

We leave no room to be in the middle ground of this argument of untethered rghts to own weapons and those that demand they be confiscated. That huge majority of Americans that want a practical working agreement gets shouted down by both sides. 

Edited February 28, 2018 by Blarg

[Thomas]

9 minutes ago, Blarg said:

What I think is the dumbest argument is that Democrats don't own or use firearns only Republicans do. I have several co-workers that are staunch Democrats at the voting booth but own firearms, a couple actually go hunting. 

My rather decidedly blue state has two Democratic senators who have NRA grades of A and C. The only thing people seem to agree on is that they are stoked that a Cabelas just opened. It's weird living here because there is little to no debate regarding guns. 

[Make Angels Great Again]

One thing i think we can all agree on is that our piece of shit background check system needs some serious work when it comes to buying a gun.