Second Base

[Hubs]

While Getting to Second Base is a topic many would enjoy discussing, this post is to discuss the best options at 2B for the Angels Moving Forward. As far as I can tell, no one in the minors will be even close to ready to handle this position full time until at Least 2019, and David Fletcher better turn it on.

So looking outside the organization, what are some realistic names to try and acquire? We'd all love Jose Altuve, but short of the Astros not offering him a long term deal, I doubt they will be willing to move him, so who else?

 

[Angel Oracle]

Anybody other than the failures over the past 2-3 seasons.   A joke, that position has become.

Arte? Arte? Arte?

Is the org going to draft some REAL 2B and 3B, now that they have plenty of OFers?

[Blarg]

Giavotella was better all around player than his susequent replacements. His 82 OPS+ in 2016 was better than Pennington. Better than this seasons combination of Espinosa, Pennington and Phillips.

 

[Docwaukee]

Trade options of guys in the majors.

Brian Dozier - entering his 31 yo season.  Walk year with 9mil left.  Twins would be smart to move him but probably won't.   

Jonathan Schoop - 2 yrs of arb left.  Good power for 2b.  Horrible at walking.  5.2% bb rate this year was a career high.  I would steer clear.  

Dee Gordon - I've made my feeling known.  Entering age 30.  career .329 obp.  .341 this year though with 60 swipes - 16 caughts.  Speed dies at 30.  He's owed 3/38 through age 32.     Still a very good defender.  I am not a believer, but for the right price I could learn to live.  

Cesar Hernandez - Entering age 28 but a super 2 so not a FA till 2021.  $2.55 mil in 2017.    A solid probably 3 WAR player with good defense and more than 60 bb each of the last two years ie .370 obp.  Good speed.  Played in a small yard so his adjusted numbers aren't super awesome.  Certainly wouldn't break the bank in terms of prospects here.   He's older than I thought and his park adjusted numbers make him less valuable than I figured.  He's not as obvious of a choice as I thought.  

Whit Merrifield - let's face it.   The Royals are toast for about the next 10 years.  Merrifield came out of nowhere at the age of 28 to hit 19 hrs with above avg defense.  If the Royals don't trade him they are tarded.  The likelihood of him repeating his season is slim.   Career minor league ops of .736.  Career major league ops for age 26 and 27 is .760.   Free agent 2023.  swiped 34 bags.  

Josh Harrison - a very good defender at 2b.  Entering age 30 with 19 and 20 team options of about 11 mil for age 31, 32.  Not a lot of obp.  Decent speed.  Pretty much like everyone else on this list.  My reaction would be - ok.  Cool.  better than what we've had for awhile.  

Ian Kinsler - owed 11mil for his age 36 season.  90 ops+ in 2016.  Still an excellent defender and walk a lot.  Unlucky this year.  If you can't get him for a low level prospect ala Maybin then pass.  But he could be a decent option.  

Yolmer Sanchez - excellent defender at both 2b and 3b.  Entering age 26 season and controlled through 2021.  Seems to have had a better year than expected.  I could see him being our primary target.  

Joe Panik - entering his age 27 season.  Controlled through the 2020 season.  Avg hitter.  had a bad year defensively but is likely avg.  A bit overrated in my opinion.  I think the Giants think they will compete next year so it would take a decent bounty to get him which I wouldn't do.  

DJ LeMahieu - Entering age 29 season and a walk year.  Don't like position players from COL.  But excellent obp the last 3 years and an excellent defender.  

Asdrubal Cabrera - 8.5mil option with a 2m buyout for his age 32 season.  Poor defender.  Slightly above avg. hitter.  

Yangervis Solarte - Entering age 30 for 4.125 m and two team options for age 31 and 32 for 5.5 m and 8 m.  Solid defender.  Can also play 3b.  Below avg defensively this year and avg the previous 3 yrs.  

Starlin Castro - not a very good defender and avg offensively.  Don't think he get's traded anyway.  Entering age 28 for 11mil, 29 for 12 mil, and team option for age 30 at 16mil.  

 

 

[Tank]

Is Phillips signed for next year or is he a FA?

[ukyah]

8 minutes ago, Tank said:

Is Phillips signed for next year or is he a FA?

FA

 

[ukyah]

i'm gonna say that eppler and new hjic in miami use their previous relationship to swing a big deal to clear salary for the marlins. i'm thinking a six or seven player deal. boom!

it relates to this thread because i think gordon will be one of those players.

[Tank]

8 minutes ago, ANAHEIMBOB said:

Howie Kendrick  is a free agent. He can still hit.

May I mumble dogface to the banana patch?

[VariousCrap]

If they are trading for 2B, Hernandez is the one.

 

 

 

[Stradling]

4 hours ago, Tank said:

May I mumble dogface to the banana patch?

I always thought it was moo moo in the banana patch doggy face 

[totdprods]

Take it with a grain of salt, but a recent MLB Trade Rumors chat had one of their writers feeling a Jahmai Jones for Cesar Hernandez trade was fair, but that the Phils likely wouldn't want a one-for-one for Cesar and If they did, Jones could be topped by another team.

Thought it was interesting (and disheartening) seeing how a non-Angel message board placed that value on both. 

I do like Hernandez but there's really no reason for the Phillies to do anything but hold him until they can sell very high on him, and I don't know if I'd want the Angels to meet that price. 

[California Cajun]

They need a second baseman.

[totdprods]

I'll throw a couple more names into the hat...some are buy-low candidates, utility players who again are just a band-aid and only are worth considering if we're improving elsewhere, and others are legit players who will cost quite a bit to acquire, but much like Cesar Hernandez, make sense despite the cost.

Tommy LaStella - solid offensively, has thrown fits about being demoted to AAA and being benched or even playing for a team other than the Cubs, but he's eventually going to be squeezed out by better prospects. Can play multiple positions, hit left-handed, fantastic contact/discipline (career, 70 walks to 92 strikeouts), not much defensively but the versatility is handy.

Greg Garcia - utility infielder for St. Louis, ties to El Cajon, controllable, hits left-handed, no power at all, nor much of a SB threat, but also great plate discipline - career OBP of .372 over 652 plate appearances. 

Tyler Wade - Yankee prospect from Murrieta, slashed .310/.382/.460/.842 at AAA with 33 XBH, 26 SB, 38 BB, 75 K in 85 games. 23, hits left-handed. 

Hernan Perez - Brewers utility player, not much OBP but some pop and speed and plus-defense, only 26 years old

Jonathan Villar  - it'd take quite the package to land him, but he had a disastrous season for Milwaukee following a breakout '16. When he's on, he's a star...awful risky and the Brewers may not be interested in moving him, but the right package could intrigue them.

Johan Camargo - switch-hitting 23 year old Braves rookie, slashed .299/.331/.452/.783 with 104 OPS+ in first season. With Swanson and Albies up the middle, he could be shopped for the right price, but he'll cost a bit.

Devon Travis - the Jays would be selling low and don't really have a need to move him, but have a need for pitching which we could offer.

Derek Dietrich - Marlins UT player, offense-first player. Solid discipline and pop and versatility.

There's a whole slew of Padres options aside from Solarte - Schmipf, Asuaje, Spangenberg, Pirela, Cordoba - most have plenty of value and fit on San Diego's roster still, but there's enough of a logjam one may be pried away.

 

[Angelsfan1984]

I prefer Hernandez but Dee Gordon would be a great option as well. It would also fill a huge need at the top of the lineup. I would also be able to live with bringing back Yunel Escobar on the cheap if that's the case then use the remaining money on pitching.

Gordon

Escobar

Trout

Upton

Pujols

Cron

Calhoun

Simmons

Maldonado

 

[Dtwncbad]

Local travel ball program participates in a tournament to benefit breast cancer.

They wear shirts that say "Save Second Base"

[floplag]

5 hours ago, Stradling said:

I always thought it was moo moo in the banana patch doggy face 

i thought mambo, lol 

[VariousCrap]

3 hours ago, totdprods said:

Take it with a grain of salt, but a recent MLB Trade Rumors chat had one of their writers feeling a Jahmai Jones for Cesar Hernandez trade was fair, but that the Phils likely wouldn't want a one-for-one for Cesar and If they did, Jones could be topped by another team.

Thought it was interesting (and disheartening) seeing how a non-Angel message board placed that value on both. 

I do like Hernandez but there's really no reason for the Phillies to do anything but hold him until they can sell very high on him, and I don't know if I'd want the Angels to meet that price. 

 

Fletcher said Skaggs for Hernandez would most likely get him.  Do that and then sign Cobb.  Easy.

[totdprods]

18 minutes ago, VariousCrap said:

Fletcher said Skaggs for Hernandez would most likely get him.  Do that and then sign Cobb.  Easy.

Yeah, and I think that is a fair and realistic offer - I'd make that trade and sign a more stable SP via FA. 
My only concern with dealing Skaggs is it leaves our pitching in both the bigs and higher-level minors very right-handed heavy. And I'm not someone who subscribes to handed-ness being in the end all be all, but I would like to see Eppler bring in a legit lefty reliever at least, and maybe a ST invite or two for rotation depth.

[zenmaster]

We will find a guy in AAA who had some promising upside at some point and drafted high but has fallen on hard times. He will probably be 27-29 years old.

[Angel Oracle]

16 hours ago, Blarg said:

Giavotella was better all around player than his susequent replacements. His 82 OPS+ in 2016 was better than Pennington. Better than this seasons combination of Espinosa, Pennington and Phillips.

 

True, which shows just how bad the position has become.

Just say no to Jam Jones for Hernandez, I'd rather trade Skaggs for him.

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, ANAHEIMBOB said:

I have a fair question to you? Why can some posters say  really stupid things like Tank and my post got taken down.

How would I know?  For one, I don't know what post you are talking about because I didn't take it down.  Two, Tank actually contributes to the site in a lot of different areas and is probably the most liked member of this community.  I have no idea why Tank responded to you with that post, but I know the phrase he was using and was a little surprised that someone else remembered that.  I think it was from an old Steve Martin comedy album, but it could be from an actual stand up routine he did about 37 years ago, right around the time King Tut song came out.  Is that about right @Tank.  

[Lou]

 

[Lou]

1 hour ago, ANAHEIMBOB said:

I have a fair question to you? Why can some posters say  really stupid things like Tank and my post got taken down.

I'm guessing it's for the same reason the cops immediately talk to the felon that lives a few houses down from where a car had been stolen. 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Lou said:

 

This place is amazing.  I don't think I have ever had a conversation about this outside of my brother, and yet four or five people knew what Tank was talking about and this is from almost 40 years ago.  Also, @Tank was right.  

[Blarg]

Let's get small.

 

No, not a Steve Martin quip, I mean let's get Altuve.