Should Scioscia be in the running for MOTY?

[Stradling]

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

Dude -- that shit was funny.....    you had to laugh at least a little bit..

I did laugh, the or was we could bring in someone else, but decided not to go there.  

[Angelsfan1984]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

You just won the internet...

Jerry Dipoto thought he was the smartest guy in the room and had all the answers too.  

You guys are very presumptuous. Ive stated nearly 10 times I'm not an expert...so how you can conclude I think im the smartest guy in the room is your own twisted mind. I am a casual fan, just like all of you. If I can see the same mistakes for the last 10 years then you should be able to as well.

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

Wtf does that even mean? Throwing out generic comments get you moderator here huh?

If you can't figure it out, I question  your knowledge of the Angels. 

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, JarsOfClay said:

I remember numerous internal fights between players during the 2012 season.  

I've said numerous times if you want to fire Scioscia for stuff from five years ago, go for it.  He deserved it.  

[Angelsfan1984]

Just now, Lou said:

If you can't figure it out, I question  your knowledge of the Angels. 

You realize that Dipoto had many issues other than thinking he was the smartest person in the room...maybe you don't though go figure.

[Stradling]

Just now, Lou said:

If you can't figure it out, I question  your knowledge of the Angels. 

He knows enough to see all the bad moves.  

[Angelsfan1984]

Just now, Stradling said:

I've said numerous times if you want to fire Scioscia for stuff from five years ago, go for it.  He deserved it.  

Scioscia didn't bench Cowart 5 years ago after he comes up and is batting .400. He didn't sit Cron in favor of Pujols who's error cost us a game and provided nothing offensively. He didn't start Espinosa for 80 games even though he couldn't bat his weight. Those same issues are still here. Why can you not see that?

[Lou]

1 minute ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

You realize that Dipoto had many issues other than thinking he was the smartest person in the room...maybe you don't though go figure.

I didn't make that statement 

[Lou]

The error by Pujols didn't cost us the game. 

[Angelsfan1984]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

He knows enough to see all the bad moves.  

He may be a great locker room presence and based on the players responses I'm sure its true. However the person everyone likes doesn't always make the best leader. Sometimes you have to be the asshole, sometimes you have to hurt feelings. He doesn't consistently put the best product on the field with the pieces he has.

[Lou]

Are you sure you're watching the Angels play? 

[Angelsfan1984]

Just now, Lou said:

The error by Pujols didn't cost us the game. 

I can tell you being down by 1 run is a lot different than being down 2. If you've ever played the game or any game for that matter. In close games 1 run can feel like a lot and sometimes 2 feels impossible.

[Inside Pitch]

12 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

You guys are very presumptuous. Ive stated nearly 10 times I'm not an expert...so how you can conclude I think im the smartest guy in the room is your own twisted mind. I am a casual fan, just like all of you. If I can see the same mistakes for the last 10 years then you should be able to as well.

No man -- I'm not even trying to pick a fight..   Promise.   But you're showing up calling everything "basic" while making it seem as if the ONLY correct opinion is yours and then telling someone they are too stupid to engage into conversation with.   So...  Yeah..    You may not be calling yourself an expert but you certainly seem to think yours is an expert opinion.

FWIW, I've seen plenty of your comments I could pick apart and provide you with data to back it up but I don't see a point in it.  You believe what you do and that's fine.   But if you're going to flap your gums about what your eyeballs tell you while simultaneously making reference to MS ignoring data -- you might try to not be guilty of it yourself.   There is a ton of data out there that all pretty much argues bullpen management has been one of MS's better attributes in his tenure as a manager -- he mucks shit up, so does everyone else -- but as a whole and over the course of his career it's one thing he does well.

I'd sooner argue that he can't manage unless he has a solid pen than argue he can't manage a pen.

[Angelsfan1984]

2 minutes ago, Lou said:

Are you sure you're watching the Angels play? 

Be honest, have you actually played the game or can you say for certainty you know for a fact that the moves he makes are no brainers?

[ettin]

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

No man -- I'm not even trying to pick a fight..   Promise.   But you're showing up calling everything "basic" while making it seem as if the ONLY correct opinion is yours and then telling someone they are too stupid to engage into conversation with.   So...  Yeah..    You may not be calling yourself an expert but you certainly seem to think your's is an expert opinion.

FWIW, I've seen plenty of your comments I could pick apart and provide you with data to back it up but I don't see a point in it.  You believe what you do and that's fine.   But if you're going to flap your gums about what your eyeballs tells you while simultaneously making reference to MS ignoring data -- you might try to not be guilty of it yourself.   There is a ton of data out there that all pretty much argues bullpen management has been one of MS's better attributes in his tenure as a manager -- he mucks shit up, so does everyone else -- but as a whole and over the course of his career it's one thing he does well.

I'd sooner argue that he can't manage unless he has a solid pen than argue he can't manage a pen.

Scioscia's use of Blake Parker this year has been pretty damn good overall. Has used him almost exclusively in high leverage situations not in the 9th inning.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

Scioscia didn't bench Cowart 5 years ago after he comes up and is batting .400. He didn't sit Cron in favor of Pujols who's error cost us a game and provided nothing offensively. He didn't start Espinosa for 80 games even though he couldn't bat his weight. Those same issues are still here. Why can you not see that?

Because I'm not an idiot and I see why he does things.  I have said numerous times I don't like his handling of Cowart.  Espinosa was going to get half a season no matter what, he was who the GM brought in.  Pujols was going to start one game of the two.  

[Angelsfan1984]

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

No man -- I'm not even trying to pick a fight..   Promise.   But you're showing up calling everything "basic" while making it seem as if the ONLY correct opinion is yours and then telling someone they are too stupid to engage into conversation with.   So...  Yeah..    You may not be calling yourself an expert but you certainly seem to think your's is an expert opinion.

FWIW, I've seen plenty of your comments I could pick apart and provide you with data to back it up but I don't see a point in it.  You believe what you do and that's fine.   But if you're going to flap your gums about what your eyeballs tells you while simultaneously making reference to MS ignoring data -- you might try to not be guilty of it yourself.   There is a ton of data out there that all pretty much argues bullpen management has been one of MS's better attributes in his tenure as a manager -- he mucks shit up, so does everyone else -- but as a whole and over the course of his career it's one thing he does well.

I'd sooner argue that he can't manage unless he has a solid pen than argue he can't manage a pen.

That is my point. He didn't start embracing analytics until very recently. Ok so he's still learning. Yet for being such an oldschool baseball guy he is fumbling the most obvious issues with his players. Hell im surprised we didn't see Espinosa all year based on what he was doing defensively based on Scioscias track record. You can't screw up both ends of the spectrum and expect to get credit for your managerial skills.

[Angelsfan1984]

Just now, Stradling said:

Because I'm not an idiot and I see why he does things.  I have said numerous times I don't like his handling of Cowart.  Espinosa was going to get half a season no matter what, he was who the GM brought in.  Pujols was going to start one game of the two.  

Doesn't have to be in baseball, a good manager will see that and say "this shit isn't working, it may not be ideal based on what we are paying but were going to replace him" If he really does have that much clout in the organization that happens well before the all-star break.

3 minutes ago, ettin said:

Scioscia's use of Blake Parker this year has been pretty damn good overall. Has used him almost exclusively in high leverage situations not in the 9th inning.

I agree. I in fact would like to see him more.

[Angelsfan1984]

How much longer does he keep giving up an L every 5th day with Nolasco? You're telling me a minor leaguer couldn't get the W 30% of the time? Sure Eppler is the one who brought him in, that doesn't mean he has to pitch him. You can't defend that crap there's no excuse for it. How about pinch hitting Valbuena? I've never seen a pinch hitter with a lower BA than the guy he's replacing in my life. I don't care about bs stats about guys hitting .527 with runners on 2nd during Thursday day games when its above 78 degrees.

[ettin]

5 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

How much longer does he keep giving up an L every 5th day with Nolasco? You're telling me a minor leaguer couldn't get the W 30% of the time? Sure Eppler is the one who brought him in, that doesn't mean he has to pitch him. You can't defend that crap there's no excuse for it. How about pinch hitting Valbuena? I've never seen a pinch hitter with a lower BA than the guy he's replacing in my life. I don't care about bs stats about guys hitting .527 with runners on 2nd during Thursday day games when its above 78 degrees.

At this point they should move Nolasco to the bullpen and have him pitch exclusively against RHH's which is where he has had more success.

[Lou]

17 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

Be honest, have you actually played the game or can you say for certainty you know for a fact that the moves he makes are no brainers?

lol

This is the baseball equivalent of the "in the industry" guy 

[Lou]

1 minute ago, ettin said:

At this point they should move Nolasco to the bullpen and have him pitch exclusively against RHH's which is where he has had more success.

in Salt Lake City 

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

Why should he have to do that? I'm fairly certain he agrees Pujols shouldn't bat behind Trout. He never stated that he agreed with every decision MS makes. If that were the criteria to be considered a good manager, there would be exactly zero good managers in MLB. 

Lou, the criteria for what makes a good manager has been set.  If you haven't been in multiple World Series in the last 15 years then "you suck".  

[Stradling]

For the record, if the guy we bring up from the minors gets the same run support as Nolasco gets I doubt he wins much more than 30% of the time.  

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

I hope you realize that we are in agreement on the manager's influence on wins & losses. That's on the players. My criticism wasn't aimed at you, but at those "in spite" of posters who actually believe the manager has a great amount of influence - enough to cause a team to lose. My contention is that, if that is the case, then they should extolling Scioscia's virtues when we win. (that's why I've said before that they are being disingenuous. They can't have it both ways. 

As as far as the dodger statement, that was aimed at those that pin it all on the manager. Obviously, they would still be a great team, regardless of who was managing the team. That proves our point. 

(sorry you got caught up in the crossfire)

No worries sorry if i misunderstood