Its time for the front office to step up and do its job

[zenmaster]

Mike Stanton has been on absolute fire!

[floplag]

50 minutes ago, Stradling said:

The problem with having this discussion with you is you don't actually give an example of what you want.  From what I can tell you are willing to take on salary to improve the team this year. But you are noncommittal on how to do that, other than telling us there are ways to make it happen without giving up prospects.  Does that sum it up?   

No the problem is you seem to lack the ability to consider an option without it being wrapped up for you in the perfect little box.  
I have listed some you've ignored on these forums, Dee Gordon for example.   IF Mia wants to dump salary it wouldnt cost much, and that was the rumor pre-deadline.  And yes I would have given up a good prospect for Gordon with more years of control over a rental where i would not.  The A's could still move Lowrie.  The Mets are in fire sale mode having moved Walker and Bruce, would you be surprised to see them shop Cespedes?  There are a few out there that im quite sure you know of as a knowledgeable baseball fan, i shouldnt need to list them. 
I dont know he might be out there, Eppler does, or should.  All we know as fans is the rumors.  It is the GMs job to have the pulse of the other GMs, there is no way i could possibly know this passed the rumors mills but there always seem to be salary dump candidates and other such things floating around.  

[ten ocho recon scout]

10 minutes ago, CanadianHalo said:

Probably about as crazy as we all went when we signed Pujols...

I remember before landing him, mark68 and i were vocal as hell about targeting fielder (didnt think pujols was even possible). Once pujols signed here, and story was with the new media deal money was no object, i was saying sign fielder to DH, imagining a manny/ortiz scenario.

Man that would have sucked. 

[CanadianHalo]

4 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

I remember before landing him, mark68 and i were vocal as hell about targeting fielder (didnt think pujols was even possible). Once pujols signed here, and story was with the new media deal money was no object, i was saying sign fielder to DH, imagining a manny/ortiz scenario.

Man that would have sucked. 

I really liked Fielder too moreso than Pujols actually. 

I was on cloud 9 when we signed Pujols and then again a year later when we signed Hamilton. So it's pretty hypocritical of me to sit here and bash Arte for either signing when I was essentially planning my victory lap after seeing both signings.

I just hope that both those signings haven't destroyed Arte's desire to make splashes moving forward. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

Same here. I wanted fielder because he was a lefty (we still had hunter, trumbo etc to bat right), was younger and cheaper, and lastly i just always kind of liked him.

I too was shocked when we got pujols. If anyone remembers, i mentioned at the end of that season we were going to try and sign him. Got the info from someone in the org, and told that person they were full of chit. I cant blame moreno either....the moves backfired, but he did truly try and build a champion team. Had we fixed the bullpen, it very well could have been.

Talk about bad luck. You look at the 2011 team and figure we just need a little more offense. You land pujols and trout comes out of nowhere...while haren and santana fall completely off a cliff. If haren was still effective, and with a pen, that 12 team was pretty amazing. 

[Stradling]

24 minutes ago, floplag said:

No the problem is you seem to lack the ability to consider an option without it being wrapped up for you in the perfect little box.  
I have listed some you've ignored on these forums, Dee Gordon for example.   IF Mia wants to dump salary it wouldnt cost much, and that was the rumor pre-deadline.  And yes I would have given up a good prospect for Gordon with more years of control over a rental where i would not.  The A's could still move Lowrie.  The Mets are in fire sale mode having moved Walker and Bruce, would you be surprised to see them shop Cespedes?  There are a few out there that im quite sure you know of as a knowledgeable baseball fan, i shouldnt need to list them. 
I dont know he might be out there, Eppler does, or should.  All we know as fans is the rumors.  It is the GMs job to have the pulse of the other GMs, there is no way i could possibly know this passed the rumors mills but there always seem to be salary dump candidates and other such things floating around.  

We have no idea if Miami is going to dump salary because they haven't actually dumped any salary.  My guess is they wanted to dump salary to appeal to a new owner, well that looks like it is happening with or without Dee Gordon.  

I haven't seen any indication of Lowrie being moved.  It is entirely possible, but I haven't seen the rumors.  Lowrie isn't so expensive that he wouldn't cost you a couple of good prospects.

I would take a chance on Cespedes, but I highly doubt he would come without a high prospect cost.  

I don't value Jay Bruce like others, so that was a non-factor.  As for Neil Walker, I don't know why the team didn't value him.  

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

1 hour ago, IIIII said:

Also let's be honest this has been amazing but we are not a world series team. the top 5-6 teams in the NL would kill us in a 7 game series as would the top  2-3 teams in the AL. 

We split a 4 game series and a 2 game series with the two top NL teams this year so far. We have won the the last 5 series against the 3 top AL teams. Any team can beat any other team on any given day.

[tomsred]

The problem with all of this is that the fans get too high and too low emotionally all the time.  One moment it's dump whoever you can and play for the future, and then we win a four game series and it's acquire the best available rentals.  We all need to calm down, and let the chips fall where they may at this point.  The front office has done a great job of covering for injuries, and addressing the weaknesses on this team (within budget constraints) since day one.  They just need to continue the process and plan that is in place at this point.  There is no need to make knee jerk reactions based on what has happened in a short time period.  I think Billy is always looking for ways to improve the team, and if he can do it without jeopardyzing the long haul, then it will just happen.  The team still has five tough road games in front of them this week, no one can be acquired that will make a difference or impact on those games without giving up something of real value.

[floplag]

13 minutes ago, Stradling said:

We have no idea if Miami is going to dump salary because they haven't actually dumped any salary.  My guess is they wanted to dump salary to appeal to a new owner, well that looks like it is happening with or without Dee Gordon.  

I haven't seen any indication of Lowrie being moved.  It is entirely possible, but I haven't seen the rumors.  Lowrie isn't so expensive that he wouldn't cost you a couple of good prospects.

I would take a chance on Cespedes, but I highly doubt he would come without a high prospect cost.  

I don't value Jay Bruce like others, so that was a non-factor.  As for Neil Walker, I don't know why the team didn't value him.  

Fair enough im not debating the merits of any of them just citing examples to reply to your suggesting that i had not done so.  
The bottom line is that there are options out there that may or may not cost a lot in terms of prospects and would lean more to taking on cash with lesser return in that sense so it isnt all about giving away whatever our best might be. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

12 hours ago, AngelsFanSince86 said:

So many people have been impatient with this team.  I love where this team is headed.  Eppler has slowly, but surely been building up the minor league system as well as the major league system.  He is getting guys off the scrap heap and they are producing very well for us.  However, we have nearly a full starting rotation on the DL and a couple of gaps in our lineup.  Some guys are starting to step up (Cowart and now Cron), but we still aren't sure what we have with them.  We still have money coming off the books and much better FAs the next couple of offseasons.  In two years our farm system should start to produce MLB players and we will have been able to sign solid FAs.  At that point we should be competitive for a while.  

 

Agree fully.

I know everyone is feeling good right now after the last week. But this team still has a ton of ?s.

If we get to the playoffs this year, odds are high we dont do great (as much as it kills me, its the dodgers year). If we get there, great. If not, meh, they made it interesting, esoecially given the big picture (injuries, payroll contraints, etc).

But were trending in the right direction, finally, after too many years of poor planning. Like you said, id prefer to see what we have in skaggs and heaney before we assume our pitching is taken care of. I think we also need to see if cron is for real, and of calhoun is just having an off year.

If we remain patient, it gets us some more money to spend later, a better idea of what we need long term (though 3B/2B and LF will obviously need to be addressed soon), and it gives our farm a chance. 

We NEED the farm to produce some help. We also need it to produce interesting trade pieces....i think long term solution types are going to come via trade rather than FA going forward.

Either way, were in a far better position today than we were a year, ans two years back. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

Fair enough im not debating the merits of any of them just citing examples to reply to your suggesting that i had not done so.  
The bottom line is that there are options out there that may or may not cost a lot in terms of prospects and would lean more to taking on cash with lesser return in that sense so it isnt all about giving away whatever our best might be. 

I just looked it up and I couldn't find an article saying Dee Gordon has been put through waivers, and the same with Lowrie.  I did see that Cespedes has been through waivers, but has a full no trade clause, and they don't think he will be moved.  

[floplag]

Just now, Stradling said:

I just looked it up and I couldn't find an article saying Dee Gordon has been put through waivers, and the same with Lowrie.  I did see that Cespedes has been through waivers, but has a full no trade clause, and they don't think he will be moved.  

Well it is only the 14th of Aug, last i checked they have till the end of the month do they not?  Even if they had it only means they werent claimed and could be dealt, nothing more.

Frankly i think a guy like Cespedes would waive for a contender, the Mets are going downhill fast, i highly doubt thats his idea of fun.  But thats a pure guess on my part based on what i see about his personality and could be completely wrong, maybe he loves NY and is happy just geting paid, i dont know the man personally.

I'm not even really suggesting those guys specifically, though ive made no secret i like the idea of Gordon, im just saying those kinds of guys as possible examples, nothing more.  

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

Do they have a GM of the year award? If so Eppler should be a good candidate to win it, finding all this pieces to fix the bullpen and piece together a rotation with all the injuries.

[Stradling]

Cespedes would be one I would consider because he wouldn't be a rental and he legitimately lengthens the line up, he could bat third, fourth or fifth in a line up.  it also is a good time frame, as it relates to our crop of outfielders coming up.  

Edited August 14, 2017 by Stradling

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

4 minutes ago, floplag said:

Well it is only the 14th of Aug, last i checked they have till the end of the month do they not?  Even if they had it only means they werent claimed and could be dealt, nothing more.

Frankly i think a guy like Cespedes would waive for a contender, the Mets are going downhill fast, i highly doubt thats his idea of fun.  But thats a pure guess on my part based on what i see about his personality and could be completely wrong, maybe he loves NY and is happy just geting paid, i dont know the man personally.

I'm not even really suggesting those guys specifically, though ive made no secret i like the idea of Gordon, im just saying those kinds of guys as possible examples, nothing more.  

I was hoping to sign Cespedes a couple of years ago, but that ship sailed. If Eppler could it off I would be all for it, just not sure it's possible. Who would wood we trade for him.

[ScruffytheJanitor]

Novel idea! 

And here I was, thinking it was time for them to sit down and shirk their responsibilities. 

[Inside Pitch]

28 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Do they have a GM of the year award? If so Eppler should be a good candidate to win it, finding all this pieces to fix the bullpen and piece together a rotation with all the injuries.

Yes, the Executive of the year award...

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

I would take a chance on Cespedes, but I highly doubt he would come without a high prospect cost.  

I don't value Jay Bruce like others, so that was a non-factor.  As for Neil Walker, I don't know why the team didn't value him.  

Walker and Bruce were pending FAs..   Cespedes is signed through 2021.   Contract status had everything to do with the Met's decisions.   They don't have a reason to move him.

He's definitely the type of guy they likely want, but they wouldn't be the only team interested and they have the least amount of organizational currency to offer.

[floplag]

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Walker and Bruce were pending FAs..   Cespedes is signed through 2021.   Contract status had everything to do with the Met's decisions.

Agreed, It was just a possible example though perhaps one of the more unlikely.
However, isnt this the kind of deal though most here would prefer based on the feedback?  controllable beyond 17?   Guys like Cespedes or Gordon if they were out there as opposed to rentals?   Wouldnt these kinds of deals be worth the cost?    

[Inside Pitch]

4 minutes ago, floplag said:

Agreed, It was just a possible example though perhaps one of the more unlikely.
However, isnt this the kind of deal though most here would prefer based on the feedback?  controllable beyond 17?   Guys like Cespedes or Gordon if they were out there as opposed to rentals?   Wouldnt these kinds of deals be worth the cost?    

I'm not as high on Gordon as most people here seem to be and I wouldn't want him as a leadoff hitter at all.    Cant really argue if Cespedes would be wprth the cost without knowing the cost, but he's someone you at least ask about IMO.

[ispy45]

Cespedes can't stay healthy. Pass

[Docwaukee]

Fletch did a q & a yesterday via twitter.  he was asked about if he thought we would add between now and aug 31.  check it out.  

https://twitter.com/JeffFletcherOCR/status/896948902074527745

 

 

 

[Docwaukee]

didn't get a chance to ask Fletch about his comments but it doesn't seem he thinks we'll add anyone meaningful.  My guess is because we are bumped up pretty close to the CBT threshold, but perhaps Jeff could elaborate.  

[beatlesrule]

It should be obvious that not claiming anyone off of waivers means this team is simply content with the group it has and Arte is not doing whatever it takes to win.

[Troll Daddy]

1 minute ago, beatlesrule said:

It should be obvious that not claiming anyone off of waivers means this team is simply content with the group it has and Arte is not doing whatever it takes to win.

Agree and disagree 

The only glaring hole may be second base but a platoon of Pennington and Cowart looks like what they're sticking with.

Arte's not the GM ... nice try