Is it time to add?

[ten ocho recon scout]

Tell the tigers we want upton, too.

Verlander and upton. Neither are really perfect fits...but, verlander does legitimately give us solid insurance at SP, this year and next. Someone dependable in case of more setbacks (plus it gives us a true 1, so we can slot skaggs and company mid rotation). I kind of like the idea.

Upton, again, is no perfect add. Having a good year, but who knows if its just a money play. Bat him behind trout though, and if cron keeps it up, kole stays awake, etc, different looking team.

I only kind of like the idea because with the money theyre owed, they might come prospect cheap. And i think detroit is going to want to dump salary sooner than later.

 

[Jeff Williams]

Back to Verlander.  Should/will Arte reward this present team with him?  Huge contract, but could be worth the investment at the same time.  The man can still bring it with impact.

Edited August 21, 2017 by Jeff Williams
Spelling

[floplag]

I would love to have Verlander at the top of the rotation, but with guys getting healthy I feel like we might actually have the pitching depth weve talked about soon.  I would personally prefer an impact BAT in the every day lineup to protect Trout, but thats almost always going to be my preference.   If we could get both, OK

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, floplag said:

I would love to have Verlander at the top of the rotation, but with guys getting healthy I feel like we might actually have the pitching depth weve talked about soon.  I would personally prefer an impact BAT in the every day lineup to protect Trout, but thats almost always going to be my preference.   If we could get both, OK

With Meyer and Ramirez up in the air, and Richards seemingly on track, I think it wouldn't hurt to check in on a starter.  Really, a hitter and pitcher would be worth it right now.

Honestly, I'm sort of surprised Eppler hasn't added someone. Striking on short-term vets on the cheap is a specialty of his and they are cheap as ever. He's either pretty steely and waiting for the right move, or giving up a return that he feels is fair, or is really wanting to rely on what's in house.

Maybe he feels he has one bullet to use and just wants to wait until the last possible moment to use it. To be fair, it is a little tricky to see where to obviously upgrade right now. If you get a 2B, you displace Cowart. If you get an OF, you displace a hot Revere or an occasionally productive Maybin, if you get a 1B you displace Cron or Valbuena, both have had their strengths recently. Any starter you'll acquire probably won't differ much from what's already in house, same for the pen.

[floplag]

Agreed, its a matter of priorities, will one pitcher, even an ace, benefit us more than a middle of the order bat?  Im not convinced still we have only one bullet, not when cash deals are possible with lower costs, but who knows i could be wrong. 

As far as him not doing something, im beyond shocked as ive said previously, its inexcusable to me to give away a reliever at the deadline and still do nothing to help this club as it claws back into it.  I could sorta understand selling 6 games back even if i didnt like it, but now, its literally absurd to do nothing.  

[UndertheHalo]

On 8/13/2017 at 11:50 AM, Stradling said:

 I think it was Phil that suggested Barria and Thias for Verlander.  I'd do that.

 

On 8/13/2017 at 0:01 PM, Chuckster70 said:

I would too.

Are we taking on his money also ? Because if so I think this is crazy.  I don't get why we can't just be happy to see how far THIS team will go. Even if we do add Verlander, does that realistically put us ahead of Boston or Cleavland ? Even Houston with all their problems ? I mean it would be great but I wouldn't bet on this group + Verlander in a 7 game series against any of those teams. 

Jesus be patient.  Thaiss and Barraia are both decent assets.  We need to save our bullets.  Justin Verlander is not the missing piece that is gonna send this team to the World Series.  Think about what his 28 million dollar a year contract is gonna do to this teams ability to acquire assets through 2021.  Disaster.   Barria may well be a better pitcher at some point during those years. 

Edited August 21, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[floplag]

19 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

 

Are we taking on his money also ? Because if so I think this is crazy.  I don't get why we can't just be happy to see how far THIS team will go. Even if we do add Verlander, does that realistically put us ahead of Boston or Cleavland ? Even Houston with all their problems ? I mean it would be great but I wouldn't bet on this group + Verlander in a 7 game series against any of those teams. 

Jesus be patient.  Thaiss and Barraia are both decent assets.  We need to save our bullets.  Justin Verlander is not the missing piece that is gonna send this team to the World Series.  Think about what his 28 million dollar a year contract is gonna do to this teams ability to acquire assets through 2021.  Disaster.   Barria may well be a better pitcher at some point during those years. 

and throw away 3-4 seasons in the process, thats ok to you?   Sorry, not to me.  

[UndertheHalo]

5 minutes ago, floplag said:

and throw away 3-4 seasons in the process, thats ok to you?   Sorry, not to me.  

You think Justin Verlander is the difference between the Angels being competitive in the near term and not ? 

Think about it man.  What other players can we spend 30 million on as soon as this winter.  Verlander is a short term solution.  He fits for the Astros.  Not us. 

Edited August 21, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[UndertheHalo]

I mean you say throw away 3-4 years.  

How many years are we throwing away if  Verlander sucks next year and we're stuck with both Pujols and him. 

Trading a guy like Barria, who is likely to have a positive impact at the major league level would be a significant blow to a very thin system. 

[floplag]

37 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I mean you say throw away 3-4 years.  

How many years are we throwing away if  Verlander sucks next year and we're stuck with both Pujols and him. 

Trading a guy like Barria, who is likely to have a positive impact at the major league level would be a significant blow to a very thin system. 

What is more likely, Verlander sucks or this guys positive impact is worth 3 more losing seasons?    

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

What is more likely, Verlander sucks or this guys positive impact is worth 3 more losing seasons?    

Verlander sucking. 

[Stradling]

How bout Verlander performs well below his salary, that's better than saying he will suck.  That is much more likely.

[The_Outrunner]

1 hour ago, UndertheHalo said:

 

Are we taking on his money also ? Because if so I think this is crazy.  I don't get why we can't just be happy to see how far THIS team will go. Even if we do add Verlander, does that realistically put us ahead of Boston or Cleavland ? Even Houston with all their problems ? I mean it would be great but I wouldn't bet on this group + Verlander in a 7 game series against any of those teams. 

Jesus be patient.  Thaiss and Barraia are both decent assets.  We need to save our bullets.  Justin Verlander is not the missing piece that is gonna send this team to the World Series.  Think about what his 28 million dollar a year contract is gonna do to this teams ability to acquire assets through 2021.  Disaster.   Barria may well be a better pitcher at some point during those years. 

This is the exact mindset angels fans need going forward. We spent tons on fa players, just to come back and burn us. We need to keep developing like we used to in the 90s and 2000s. It's the only way we'll make it back to the ws again. We can't go trading away picks or minor leagues(possible) gems to have old guys owned a ton of money. 

[floplag]

6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Verlander sucking. 

After looking at that it wasnt worded well was it, lol  

Regardless if im hearing you guys right you would rather take a chance on a guy currently in A ball making a "positive" contribution at some point in the next 3-4 years, over Justin Verlander?  or likely any other trade candidate i assume?   

Based on our track record of prospects thats literally like 10-1 at best, and thats the choice you would rather take?  You have more faith in a guy not even in our top 3 prospects list contributing more to the team in the next 3-4 years, than Justin Freaking Verlander?

Just so were clear thats what you are saying. 

[UndertheHalo]

10 minutes ago, floplag said:

After looking at that it wasnt worded well was it, lol  

Regardless if im hearing you guys right you would rather take a chance on a guy currently in A ball making a "positive" contribution at some point in the next 3-4 years, over Justin Verlander?  or likely any other trade candidate i assume?   

Based on our track record of prospects thats literally like 10-1 at best, and thats the choice you would rather take?  You have more faith in a guy not even in our top 3 prospects list contributing more to the team in the next 3-4 years, than Justin Freaking Verlander?

Just so were clear thats what you are saying. 

That's just not true.  I specifically said Justin Verlander, who no I don't believe is positive contributor to any major league team for more then a year or 2.  I'm open to trades, just not to old guys that 3/4 of this board will be wailing about very shortly.  

If we're talking about acquiring Christian Yellich or somebody like that, by all means trade minor league assets.  I'd trade Adell and Jones for Yellich.  My thing is, if we're gonna make trades it has to be for guys that will be important pieces to the Angels for a while.  Simmons is ofcourse a perfect example of this.   Verlander just isn't that.  Also, Barria is maybe up by next September or 2019. 

Maybe it's just outlook.  I didn't expect anything this year.  What I want for the team is patient smart development.  I can deal with them being a .500 ball club for a couple of years while the infrastructure of the organization gets healthy.  I'm about putting flags up man.  I don't give a shit about the wild card.  We aren't gonna win the division and we probably aren't gonna win the World Series.  Pass on impulsive short term bandaids. 

Edited August 21, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, floplag said:

After looking at that it wasnt worded well was it, lol  

Regardless if im hearing you guys right you would rather take a chance on a guy currently in A ball making a "positive" contribution at some point in the next 3-4 years, over Justin Verlander?  or likely any other trade candidate i assume?   

Based on our track record of prospects thats literally like 10-1 at best, and thats the choice you would rather take?  You have more faith in a guy not even in our top 3 prospects list contributing more to the team in the next 3-4 years, than Justin Freaking Verlander?

Just so were clear thats what you are saying. 

What I'm saying is I would rather keep Barria and spend $30 million somewhere else.

[floplag]

Just now, UndertheHalo said:

That's just not true.  I specifically said Justin Verlander.  I'm open to trades, just not to old guys that 3/4 of this board will be wailing about vey shortly.  

If we're talking about acquiring Christian Yellich or somebody like that, by all means trade minor league assets.  I'd trade Adell and Jones for Yellich.  My thing is, if we're gonna make trades it has better be for guys that will be important pieces to the Angels for a while.  Verlander just isn't that.  Also, Barria is maybe up by next September or 2019. 

Maybe it's just outlook.  I didn't expect anything this year.  What I want for the team is patient smart development.  I can deal with them being a .500 ball club for a couple of years while the infrastructure of the organization gets healthy.  

Even if that costs us Trout?  Becasue i think its a pipedream that he stays past his deal if we toss the next couple years on some rebuilding project.  
Yes, i know Verlander could have an opt out added but it isnt yet, perhaps he could be convinced otherwise.  If he does not then asking for a top 5 prospect seems unlikely in any case based on other recent deals.  I mean Granderson is no Verlander but they got him for literal peanuts so he might cost a snickers bar, lol  
Too many details to work out but for me it comes down to not wasting the next 2-3 years.  Many appear to be ok with that, i for one am not.  

 

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

What I'm saying is I would rather keep Barria and spend $30 million somewhere else.

I can understand that, but what if there is nothing else?  do nothing?

[UndertheHalo]

7 minutes ago, floplag said:

Even if that costs us Trout?  Becasue i think its a pipedream that he stays past his deal if we toss the next couple years on some rebuilding project.  
Yes, i know Verlander could have an opt out added but it isnt yet, perhaps he could be convinced otherwise.  If he does not then asking for a top 5 prospect seems unlikely in any case based on other recent deals.  I mean Granderson is no Verlander but they got him for literal peanuts so he might cost a snickers bar, lol  
Too many details to work out but for me it comes down to not wasting the next 2-3 years.  Many appear to be ok with that, i for one am not.  

 

I can understand that, but what if there is nothing else?  do nothing?

I don't get why you want to put faith in Verlander but you seem unwilling to put faith in what Eppler can do in the next two off seasons.  He'll have money to spend and opportunities to make trades.  Again, maybe for a guy like Yellich or apparently maybe even Stanton. 

We're pushing for the playoffs right now with the group we have.  They, hopefully are an even better team after Eppler has another off season.  Plus healthier.  All this and the development system is still intact.  Be patient my friend.  

If Trout sees a healthy organization I imagine that he can be paid and convinced to stay.  Regardless of what happens this September and October. 

Edited August 21, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[floplag]

1 minute ago, UndertheHalo said:

I don't get why you want to put faith in Verlander but you seem unwilling to put faith in what Eppler can do in the next two off seasons.  He'll have money to spend and opportunities to make trades.  Again, maybe for a guy like Yellich or apparently maybe even Stanton. 

We're pushing for the playoffs right now with the group we have.  They, hopefully are an even better team after Eppler has another off season.  Plus healthier.  All this and the development system is still intact.  Be patient my friend.  

If Trout sees a healthy organization I imagine that he can be paid and convinced to stay.  Regardless of what happens this September and October. 

simple, 2-3 wasted years of Trouts prime, how can you be so willing to scarifice that?  Its got literally nothing to do with Eppler.  Im sure he can do well given time, but Trout is here now, how can we waste that?  Might as well trade him and solve the problem 5 times as fast, almost overnight 

Yes, were pushing, but we both know the pitching staff is over worked and over achieving, getting a solid ace to anchor it changes a lot.   We go from possible second wild card to actual contender.  

Im not 100% pro Verlander, every dog has its fleas, but as is we might get the wildcard, with a couple smart moves we could be so much more.  

[ettin]

Frankly the only thing Eppler should be doing right now is either trying to find really inexpensive band-aids (talking minimal, inconsequential prospects being given up) that are only controllable through the end of this season OR long-term pieces that can help us now and through 2020. Anything else is likely a waste of money and prospect capital.

I for one think Verlander would be the new Vernon Wells/Josh Hamilton/Gary Matthews Jr. scenario, albeit on a slightly shorter-term basis. That is a LOT of money when compared to the value he might add to the club right now.

[floplag]

2 minutes ago, ettin said:

Frankly the only thing Eppler should be doing right now is either trying to find really inexpensive band-aids (talking minimal, inconsequential prospects being given up) that are only controllable through the end of this season OR long-term pieces that can help us now and through 2020. Anything else is likely a waste of money and prospect capital.

I for one think Verlander would be the new Vernon Wells/Josh Hamilton/Gary Matthews Jr. scenario, albeit on a slightly shorter-term basis. That is a LOT of money when compared to the value he might add to the club right now.

ok walking back away from this necro... i cant even concive throwing away any more of Trouts years, some of you are doing it willingly... peace out on that one i simply cannot agree

[UndertheHalo]

2 minutes ago, floplag said:

simple, 2-3 wasted years of Trouts prime, how can you be so willing to scarifice that?  Its got literally nothing to do with Eppler.  Im sure he can do well given time, but Trout is here now, how can we waste that?  Might as well trade him and solve the problem 5 times as fast, almost overnight 

Yes, were pushing, but we both know the pitching staff is over worked and over achieving, getting a solid ace to anchor it changes a lot.   We go from possible second wild card to actual contender.  

Im not 100% pro Verlander, every dog has its fleas, but as is we might get the wildcard, with a couple smart moves we could be so much more.  

My assumption is that they will be a better team next year.  In my mind we are not "wasting" Trouts prime (A concept I don't even understand- the guy is an Angel)  Again, my objection is to trading two of our better assets for Justin Verlander.  I'm game to hear about other possibilities that may improve the team.  That said, I doubt there's real opportunities for that this August.  I'd just rather make our moves in the winter in a more opportune trading market. 

[Jeff Williams]

The lineup is good where it is at, the bullpen is baseball's best, and Verlander would be an extraordinary, rewarding, reinforcing add to the rotation to this season and beyond.  If Arte would give Epp the go, willing to take on the money, no need to hesitate.  

Call it nabbing the early free agent prize in my book.

 

[Troll Daddy]

2 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

My assumption is that they will be a better team next year.  In my mind we are not "wasting" Trouts prime (A concept I don't even understand- the guy is an Angel)  Again, my objection is to trading two of our better assets for Justin Verlander.  I'm game to hear about other possibilities that may improve the team.  That said, I doubt there's real opportunities for that this August.  I'd just rather make our moves in the winter in a more opportune trading market. 

What would Mike Trout do

[UndertheHalo]

12 minutes ago, Jeff Williams said:

The lineup is good where it is at, the bullpen is baseball's best, and Verlander would be an extraordinary, rewarding, reinforcing add to the rotation to this season and beyond.  If Arte would give Epp the go, willing to take on the money, no need to hesitate.  

Call it nabbing the early free agent prize in my book.

 

Verlander is not going to be a FA, he's signed through 2021 at approx 28 million a year aav.  He's a fucking disaster waiting to happen.

The Angels line up is not good.  Its objectively terrible.  We have the 28th OPS in the league and have scored the 24th most runs.  We're terrible by just about any offensive metric.  

The bullpen is fine, but not remotely the "best in baseball" 

I encourage you to go bet $1000 on the Angels winning the world series.  You seem very confident. 

Edited August 21, 2017 by UndertheHalo