Cowart back to Triple A; Marte back up.

[ettin]

1 minute ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

He hits better against LHP. Forget his passed MLB AB. He has moved on. Her was pressing last year, but he has been more patient at the plate this year in AAA.

He plays bad and gets sent down. He plays well and is the player of the game and gets sent down. Very frustrating I would guess.

The problem is you can't forget his past MLB AB's!!!! They matter! Moving from the Pacific Coast League, a hitter's environment with AAA pitching, to the Majors and a pitcher's park (unless you buy the park factors in Anaheim this season) with MLB pitching is a huge difference. His PCL numbers don't just automatically translate to Anaheim.

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 minute ago, ettin said:

Doesn't Marte play good defense? Not sure how much we actually need the utility at the moment but sure that is a side bonus to Cowart although Scioscia himself said that he needs more repetitions at 2B so?

I won't compare him to Escobar, but Marte's defense has never impressed me. I think we all know how the organization feels about Cowart though. I do agree he has some work to do at second base. I think he can play the position fine but he isn't a plus defender there like he is at third.

As to your point about it being one game. Like I did in the Cowart thread, where I compared him to Cron, I'm just looking at the recent stat line. Cowart is hot right now, Cron has crushed it in AAA with consistent ABs and Marte is yet to find a decent hot streak, even after his demotion to the hitter friendly Salt Lake Bees. I feel like we mismanaged our way into playing the third or fourth option on our depth chart.

[Stradling]

10 minutes ago, ettin said:

To be clear we are dealing with a sample size of ONE MLB game to base this whole thread on. I truly hope Kaleb has turned a corner and he is a part of our successful future. But sample size people, sample size....

No I am not.  

[Stradling]

10 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

At that point, why not use the guy who can play great defense, multiple positions and run the bases? 

Yep and don't forget switch hit.  

[Troll Daddy]

4 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I won't compare him to Escobar, but Marte's defense has never impressed me. I think we all know how the organization feels about Cowart though. I do agree he has some work to do at second base. I think he can play the position fine but he isn't a plus defender there like he is at third.

As to your point about it being one game. Like I did in the Cowart thread, where I compared him to Cron, I'm just looking at the recent stat line. Cowart is hot right now, Cron has crushed it in AAA with consistent ABs and Marte is yet to find a decent hot streak, even after his demotion to the hitter friendly Salt Lake Bees. I feel like we mismanaged our way into playing the third or fourth option on our depth chart.

Power bat 

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

Not a fan of this move, but isn't there a possibility he was told by management before he came up that it was temporary, just until Escobar's thumb felt better?

I mean, we don't know all the behind-the-scenes details here.

 

This is coming from you?  Please please please, remember this the next time you decide to assume what Scioscia says to the press somewhat runs parallel with what he says to the players.  

[ettin]

1 minute ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I won't compare him to Escobar, but Marte's defense has never impressed me. I think we all know how the organization feels about Cowart though. I do agree he has some work to do at second base. I think he can play the position fine but he isn't a plus defender there like he is at third.

As to your point about it being one game. Like I did in the Cowart thread, where I compared him to Cron, I'm just looking at the recent stat line. Cowart is hot right now, Cron has crushed it in AAA with consistent ABs and Marte is yet to find a decent hot streak, even after his demotion to the hitter friendly Salt Lake Bees. I feel like we mismanaged our way into playing the third or fourth option on our depth chart.

Perhaps ALF I just feel like this thread is getting way out of bounds regarding a player that has a lot of unrecognized promise, is above average defensively at 3B, and has been wildly inconsistent in his Minor League offensive numbers. Everyone saw one game last night where Cowart did well (and he looked good I saw it too) and they are having this heart attack about a management decision to try and maximize a platoon advantage for a 4-game set against the Chavez Latrine Duggars.

I seem to recall a thread not too long ago where everyone wanted Marte to be our 3B of the future and now that he is getting called up we are crying foul. It's a classic AW.com thread in action.

[Stradling]

8 minutes ago, ettin said:

The problem is you can't forget his past MLB AB's!!!! They matter! Moving from the Pacific Coast League, a hitter's environment with AAA pitching, to the Majors and a pitcher's park (unless you buy the park factors in Anaheim this season) with MLB pitching is a huge difference. His PCL numbers don't just automatically translate to Anaheim.

Ettin, you are as smart as anyone, hell you literally just made a sample size comment on here.  He has had less than 200 at bats at the big leagues.  So yea, you can kind of forget about those.  

[DMVol]

14 minutes ago, Blarg said:

They failed enough to be optioned instead of just benched. It's on them for not playing better. 

True that...but Cron was good enough last year that I thought he deserved the 1b job and some slack...I thought signing  Valbuena and immediately declaring a platoon made little sense.... Valbuena is garbage...he's been mediocre in his career and this year he has been terrible...but that's just me and Cron hasn't helped himself...

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

23 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Both Cron and Marte failed on their own when Valbuena started the season on the DL. If either played well Valbuena would be riding pine. It's on them. 

Cron NEVER got consistent AB. I mean every game for more than a month straight whether he was good or bad. Just knowing the job is yours like it was last year can help a person stop pressing every chance he does get to play. Like Espinosa got.

[fan_since79]

6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

This is coming from you?  Please please please, remember this the next time you decide to assume what Scioscia says to the press somewhat runs parallel with what he says to the players.  

Well, it applies to you too.

If that's the case, that Cowart was told the move was for an emergency start or two, then maybe the decision to send him down is not as effin awful as you thought. Or as I thought.

This thread is helping people to blow off steam, though.

 

[eligrba4ever]

Well, this has been a fun Monday afternoon discussion about something none of the posters can influence either way. On to the real game.

[AngelsLakersFan]

6 minutes ago, ettin said:

Perhaps ALF I just feel like this thread is getting way out of bounds regarding a player that has a lot of unrecognized promise, is above average defensively at 3B, and has been wildly inconsistent in his Minor League offensive numbers. Everyone saw one game last night where Cowart did well (and he looked good I saw it too) and they are having this heart attack about a management decision to try and maximize a platoon advantage for a 4-game set against the Chavez Latrine Duggars.

I seem to recall a thread not too long ago where everyone wanted Marte to be our 3B of the future and now that he is getting called up we are crying foul. It's a classic AW.com thread in action.

I generally agree with this, but the issue is, Jefrey Marte has a wRC+ in AAA of 59!

I mean yes, everything you say is true, but at some point, at some level, you have to look at the guy you are bringing up, the guy who is actually going to be playing. It's easy to poke holes in Cowart, but that is ignoring the elephant in the room. We were all optimistic about Marte coming into this season, but he has sunk like the Titanic this year and should not be in this teams plans currently.

[Angels#1Fan]

What happened to the Marte Parte brigade?

[Troll Daddy]

Lot of commotion over a bench spot. Looks like you guys think we're in the hunt.

[Troll Daddy]

Marte will be bought in to pinch hit as a power bat off the bench. 

When the team returns to Anaheim I suspect he'll be sent back down and Pujols back to DH. 

[ettin]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ettin, you are as smart as anyone, hell you literally just made a sample size comment on here.  He has had less than 200 at bats at the big leagues.  So yea, you can kind of forget about those.  

Why for God's sake would you forget about them? They show a past history of how he has performed against Major League pitching? More importantly they are recent AB's in the last three years which is where you usually build your trend line.

To be clear about what I am saying in case there is any confusion:

* Kaleb has a long Minor League history of very inconsistent offense

* Kaleb is an above average defensive 3B who has been practicing, but is not yet fully competent, at 2B among other positions

* Kaleb has in the last 2 years in the Minors performed better offensively in the Pacific Coast League, which is a hitter's paradise.

* Kaleb in his sparse, inconsistent AB's in the Majors has performed poorly on offense but his defense has translated fairly well

* In his MLB AB's he has performed poorly from both sides of the plate which either a ) is indicative of his ceiling as a player, b ) was just newness to the League, c ) bad luck or d ) he has never seen such consistent MLB fastballs and breaking pitches and hasn't adapted yet

Last night Cowart played a really good game with two fine defensive plays and some solid hitting. That was just one game. He could have played today and stumbled and fumbled and some of these reactionary posters would be backing off of their super strong stances on his ability. He also could have continued to do well, who knows. All that I am saying is some posters on here need to temper their expectations. Marte generally hits LHP well, he has solid power, and the Angels management, despite Cowart's recent success in AAA, feel that their best 25-man roster against the Dodgers is to have Marte platooning and I don't think they are entirely wrong in that decision.

Does this potentially mess with Cowart's head? Maybe. A little adversity builds character and, as someone else pointed out, they could have told him upfront "Hey this is a one game deal you'll get other opportunities in the coming months."

We are very finicky here on the board. One day we're touting Jefry Marte as our future 3B (last year) and now that Cowart is trending up we're touting him. Fortunes can change on a dime. I hope that they give Kaleb the chance to prove himself in the Majors whether it is with us or another team, he is looking more and more like he is ready to come up for good even if it is in a utility role or something more. I just think we're making too much out of a relatively benign decision Strad.

[Stradling]

12 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

Well, it applies to you too.

If that's the case, that Cowart was told the move was for an emergency start or two, then maybe the decision to send him down is not as effin awful as you thought. Or as I thought.

This thread is helping people to blow off steam, though.

 

Read my posts, I have blown off some steam.  

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, ettin said:

Why for God's sake would you forget about them? They show a past history of how he has performed against Major League pitching? More importantly they are recent AB's in the last three years which is where you usually build your trend line.

To be clear about what I am saying in case there is any confusion:

* Kaleb has a long Minor League history of very inconsistent offense

* Kaleb is an above average defensive 3B who has been practicing, but is not yet fully competent, at 2B among other positions

* Kaleb has in the last 2 years in the Minors performed better offensively in the Pacific Coast League, which is a hitter's paradise.

* Kaleb in his sparse, inconsistent AB's in the Majors has performed poorly on offense but his defense has translated fairly well

* In his MLB AB's he has performed poorly from both sides of the plate which either a ) is indicative of his ceiling as a player, b ) was just newness to the League, c ) bad luck or d ) he has never seen such consistent MLB fastballs and breaking pitches and hasn't adapted yet

Last night Cowart played a really good game with two fine defensive plays and some solid hitting. That was just one game. He could have played today and stumbled and fumbled and some of these reactionary posters would be backing off of their super strong stances on his ability. He also could have continued to do well, who knows. All that I am saying is some posters on here need to temper their expectations. Marte generally hits LHP well, he has solid power, and the Angels management, despite Cowart's recent success in AAA, feel that their best 25-man roster against the Dodgers is to have Marte platooning and I don't think they are entirely wrong in that decision.

Does this potentially mess with Cowart's head? Maybe. A little adversity builds character and, as someone else pointed out, they could have told him upfront "Hey this is a one game deal you'll get other opportunities in the coming months."

We are very finicky here on the board. One day we're touting Jefry Marte as our future 3B (last year) and now that Cowart is trending up we're touting him. Fortunes can change on a dime. I hope that they give Kaleb the chance to prove himself in the Majors whether it is with us or another team, he is looking more and more like he is ready to come up for good even if it is in a utility role or something more. I just think we're making too much out of a relatively benign decision Strad.

You can talk all you want about Cowart's minor league career, but he has been pretty damn good two years in a row.  If we going to make a big deal about Cowarts lack of success at the major league level then we should be equally worried about Marte being awful this year offensively and also not all that great defensively.  For the next four games Cowart's versatility makes him the better option in my opinion.  We have no idea if Marte has a major league bat, we have no idea if Cowart has a major league bat.  What we do know is that Cowart has a major league glove at 3rd base.  He has the strongest singular skill set of the two.  He also runs the bases well, not something Marte excels at.  

[Homebrewer]

Kaleb was asking someone in the clubhouse "Hey...where's my bat, man"?

Scioscia heard  "Hey, where's the fat man"?

He was stopped by the traveling secretary as he tried to get on the team bus, and handed a coach ticket to SLC.

[OregonLAA]

My hope is they were very open about him just being here until Escobar was ok. My problem is I know in the past they've been awful at that. And that will mess with a young player

[Homebrewer]

12 minutes ago, ettin said:

Does this potentially mess with Cowart's head? Maybe. A little adversity builds character and, as someone else pointed out, they could have told him upfront "Hey this is a one game deal you'll get other opportunities in the coming months."

Did wonders for Brandon Wood.

[ettin]

Just now, Stradling said:

You can talk all you want about Cowart's minor league career, but he has been pretty damn good two years in a row.  If we going to make a big deal about Cowarts lack of success at the major league level then we should be equally worried about Marte being awful this year offensively and also not all that great defensively.  For the next four games Cowart's versatility makes him the better option in my opinion.  We have no idea if Marte has a major league bat, we have no idea if Cowart has a major league bat.  What we do know is that Cowart has a major league glove at 3rd base.  He has the strongest singular skill set of the two.  He also runs the bases well, not something Marte excels at.  

Pujols and Trout are out right now. Marte has power and can hit in the middle of the lineup. It seems pretty clear that management is valuing his power more than Cowart's versatility and that is perfectly okay.

I have never disagreed that Cowart's total skill set is less than Marte's. I am simply surprised that you and others are getting so bent out of shape about a relatively small delta in performance between two players. Angels want more power in the lineup for the upcoming series and a guy they feel hits LHP a bit better, it's really that simple. It would not surprise me one bit to see Kaleb come up again very soon and perhaps permanently if Escobar is traded.

[Stradling]

I had no idea that every pitcher Wood faced with a curve ball had the last name of Adversity.  

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, ettin said:

Pujols and Trout are out right now. Marte has power and can hit in the middle of the lineup. It seems pretty clear that management is valuing his power more than Cowart's versatility and that is perfectly okay.

I have never disagreed that Cowart's total skill set is less than Marte's. I am simply surprised that you and others are getting so bent out of shape about a relatively small delta in performance between two players. Angels want more power in the lineup for the upcoming series and a guy they feel hits LHP a bit better, it's really that simple. It would not surprise me one bit to see Kaleb come up again very soon and perhaps permanently if Escobar is traded.

Well I am in favor of him being the starting 3rd baseman.  The reason for that is I think it is a little silly saying you are a defense first team and then have the worst defensive third baseman in the league as your everyday starter.  Now that made since as a trade off when we had no viable lead off options.  This year we have a superior lead off hitter than Escobar.  Obviously I am in the minority but it is how I feel.  Besides, I would like to know this year, if he can hit at the major league level.  If he can't then you have that hole to fill in the off season.