Pujols has been terrible

[eligrba]

1 hour ago, CALZONE said:

There's no real solution but to buy him out. If the Angels are serious about moving forward and contending they need to graciously call him in like the Yankees did with A-Rod. The Albert Pujols post St. louis greatest player in somebody else's generation experiment is over, it didn't work and both sides need to recognize that. 

 

This is a real possibility if Pujols does not see the writing on the wall.  Unfortunately, this is not the year for such a conversation and neither will next year.  My money would be for the 2019 season if his suckage continues.

[Stradling]

Just now, CanadianHalo said:

Revere's heating up and Maybin is cooling off lately, season isn't over!

You caught it before I changed my post, jerk.  And yea it's been nice seeing him heat up. 

[CanadianHalo]

Just now, Stradling said:

You caught it before I changed my post, jerk.  And yea it's been nice seeing him heat up. 

I finally caved and picked up Maybin in fantasy 2 weeks ago or so, of course he immediately cooled off. I'll do everyone a favor and dump him later 

[Stradling]

Thanks, release Albert next. 

[Angel Oracle]

20 minutes ago, eligrba said:

This is a real possibility if Pujols does not see the writing on the wall.  Unfortunately, this is not the year for such a conversation and neither will next year.  My money would be for the 2019 season if his suckage continues.

Hit #3,000 should come during the 2018 season.   Then the other big target (5th place on HR list, currently Mays at 660) is hopefully reached during the 2019 season. 

[Farmbuildingfan]

Other than just taking up space on the roster for the next four years, is there anyway to put Pujols' $114 million to at least some use.

Can he be a hitting coach, bench coach, scout etc?.

The Angels will never get their 114 million back, but there should be some way to put his knowledge to use other than being on the playing roster.

[Ohtaniland]

30 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Hit #3,000 should come during the 2018 season.   Then the other big target (5th place on HR list, currently Mays at 660) is hopefully reached during the 2019 season. 

But is this an Angels organizational priority? Couldn't the Angels pay him off and let him slowly creep to those milestones somewhere else where winning is not as important. The Oakland A's is always a good landing spot. They snatched up Matsui up on the cheap for his notoriety. Hey maybe they could send Albert, all the cash and Bedrock for Sonny Gray. 

Oh that no-trade clause really comes back to bite us in the ass.

[Angel Oracle]

I'm just looking at 2.5 years from now as a compromise.   Then they could, as implied earlier, Bonilla the remaining $59 million due Pujols in 2020-2021, over say 5-6 years.   The interest portion of that wouldn't be so great, and wouldn't that still cut the AAV payroll by some $12-14 million/season from 2020 through 2021?   Granted it adds $10-12 million/season for 2022 through 2024/2025.

[yk9001]

Don't defer anything.  I don't want this crappy guy hanging over the franchise for another decade.

If the slugger won't retire, pay him off and take your medicine.

[Ohtaniland]

8 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

Don't defer anything.  I don't want this crappy guy hanging over the franchise for another decade.

If the slugger won't retire, pay him off and take your medicine.

I have to agree with this. Even the Ringling Bros and Barnum & Bailey knew it was time to shut it down. 

[Dtwncbad]

Maybe the DL is the best spot for him for like 80% of the time over the next 4 years.  I can't see any way to get out of the money.  That money is gone.  So now its about playing time and a roster spot.  Just a sidenote I laugh when I hear people say he still has his power.  That's absurd.  His hr/fly ball ratio is like half is what it was in his prime.  He has warning track power now.  A few sneak over the wall. . .but the guy absolutely is a shell of his former self in terms of power.

[bloodbrother]

The money doesn't bother me, I'm not paying it. it's him parked in the 3/4 spot in the lineup despite being one of their 3 worst hitters on any given day. It's him playing everyday despite being a DH with a sub .650 OPS, etc

[Jeff Fletcher]

Why should Pujols agree to anything that pays him one cent less than the Angels guaranteed him?

If the Angels don't want him, they can release him -- and pay him every cent they owe him. 

"The ARod situation" was just a fancy way of doing just that. The Yankees still paid him all his money. They saved no money by releasing him. It was just a nice way of releasing him. 

[nate]

People here are convinced that he will hang them up early because he once said that he would quit playing once he no longer could perform.  For 25 million I am betting he counts being able to stand up as being able to perform.  

[tdawg87]

Nah Pujols will be the first DH in a wheelchair. 

[Inside Pitch]

On 7/5/2017 at 1:20 PM, CALZONE said:

There's no real solution but to buy him out. If the Angels are serious about moving forward and contending they need to graciously call him in like the Yankees did with A-Rod. The Albert Pujols post St. louis greatest player in somebody else's generation experiment is over, it didn't work and both sides need to recognize that. 

You are trying to make it seem like the Yankees saw a problem and removed it..  They didn't -- they watched as he put up an OPS+ of 114 between his age 35-37 seaons -- a period of time that saw him hit 41 HRs and drive in 138 runs COMBINED despite playing in offense happy park..   They caught a break when he was suspended for a year then waited until his OPS dropped below.600 his second year after the suspension then bought him out of the final year of his contract.   

Don't look now but the Angels are treating AP EXACTLY the same way the Yanks did Arod..   If they were to take your advice and follow the Yank's lead then I guess he'll be given until 2020 then get bought out...  He still got paid, he just got a year's paid vacation.

[Inside Pitch]

6 hours ago, yk9001 said:

Don't defer anything.  I don't want this crappy guy hanging over the franchise for another decade.

If the slugger won't retire, pay him off and take your medicine.

He's been willing to do it before, and more than once.   I don't think he would hesitate to do it again, but it's not gonna happen this year or even next.

[Docwaukee]

33 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Why should Pujols agree to anything that pays him one cent less than the Angels guaranteed him?

If the Angels don't want him, they can release him -- and pay him every cent they owe him. 

"The ARod situation" was just a fancy way of doing just that. The Yankees still paid him all his money. They saved no money by releasing him. It was just a nice way of releasing him. 

Agree he shouldn't.  I wouldn't.  It's not his fault he's overpaid.  He can only do what he can do and I believe he's trying.  

I do disagree, however, that it would take 10-20mil to replace him.  If his current trend continues, a replacement level bat at league minimum would outproduce him.  The only thing saving him has been his ability to drive runs in at a level that is disproportionate to the rest of his numbers.  A very debatable 'skill'.  One that has very rapidly regressed to the mean with a wRC+ of 21 or an ops of .479 in june after that of a  116 in mar/apr (ops of .844 with RISP), and 233 in may (with an ops of 1.274).  

Am I ready to call it?  maybe not yet, but it's getting pretty close.  Cuz if he ends up hitting .235 with a wRC+ of 75 and a WAR of -2.0 (what he's on pace for) and the RISP numbers normalize to the rest of his stats, then what?  Then you have to consider the fact that even as bad as Valbuena and Cron and Marte have been that they or even some random callup from AAA like a Kowart or Puello would have a better chance of providing more value than he does.  

Now, I completely understand that they're not just going to bench him.  I know it doesn't matter to a lot of people here, but he earned every ounce of lee-way he's gonna get from every player, coach, GM, and owner in the Angels org.  He's been great for the game and in spite of some here's thoughts, he's been good for this franchise.  Not what we'd hoped, but still good.  I don't envy MS, or Eppler or Arte in regards to how this is eventually going to have to be handled.  But you have to admit, there's some pretty loud writing on the wall.  

Maybe it starts with a phantom DL stint here and there.  Or a move to 5th in the lineup with Calhoun splitting up he and Trout.  I know it's going to be a process, but that process has to start at some point.  He's 37 and a half years old.  If he himself doesn't recognize his own shelf life at some point then I don't know what to say.  

[Ohtaniland]

Well as bad as the team has been they certainly do have their dog and pony show in place with Pujols and his milestones. The fans are loving it. 

[Docwaukee]

5 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

Well as bad as the team has been they certainly do have their dog and pony show in place with Pujols and his milestones. The fans are loving it. 

I guess that make you not a fan.  

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

44 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

He's been willing to do it before, and more than once.   I don't think he would hesitate to do it again, but it's not gonna happen this year or even next.

Be nice if Albert would retire so we don't have his salary applied towards the Luxury tax and Arte pays him $30M to work in the front office. Maybe give Albert 5% interest in the Angels if he retires.

[Angelsjunky]

I agree that Albert won't retire. Very few people are willing to leave tens of millions on the table - and the fact of the matter is that after this year, Albert is still owed $124 million (including the weird 10-year/$10MM "personal services" contract).

Let's assume that this is the new norm. I don't care who you are, if you are hitting like a replacement player you have no place on a major league team, especially one with hopes of contention. He'll probably start losing starts if and when the Angels fall out of contention. He goes into 2018 as the starting DH, but with a big question mark. If he continues as is, he'll eventually be demoted. It will be gradual and masked - maybe through some combination of mystery injuries, platoons, and "player-coach" role, but over the next couple years he'll be down to a part-time player. Maybe he saves face and goes out a hero by quitting a year or even two early to save the Angels money, with a buy-out. The Angels could even offer him a deal like playing half his salary for the last two years of the contract. Albert gets to go home two years early, but gets paid for one of them.

Maybe Albert rebounds a bit and finishes the year with a mediocre-but-decent .250/.300/.430 line, with 25 HR and 90 RBI. Maybe he even does that in 2018, and then dwindles in 2019 and 2020. One thing I just can't see, however, is him being a regular in 2020-21, maybe not 2019.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

He should go out like Babe Ruth. In the movie William Bendix hit 3 HR in 1 game and then walked off the field for the last time, to the cheers of the crowds. What really happened was slightly different, after he hit the 3 HR, he actually played a few more games before he quit.

Ruth and Pujols were about as fast running the bases in the last few years, slow.

[Blarg]

In defense of Ruth's running, he has been dead for 70 years.

[eligrba]

57 minutes ago, Blarg said:

In defense of Ruth's running, he has been dead for 70 years.

...but is still a little faster than Pujols.