What would roster look like if Moreno had committed to building the farm?

[Farmbuildingfan]

We are in an alternate universe.

Back in 2003 when Moreno bought the Angels, he committed to building up his farm system and holding on to, and developing his own players.

In this alternate universe, Moreno upheld this commitment.

He has no interest in signing big time free agents or filling holes with journeyman.

Who would be on the Angels 25 man roster today in this universe?.

 

 

[Jason]

We will never know

[nando714]

I think he was afraid of more Brandon Wood and McPhersons happening so he starting spending on expensive vets that were proven 

[DMVol]

If your Aunt had balls she'd be your Uncle...

[eligrba]

Knowing the Angels, they would have drafted Sam Bowie.

[ten ocho recon scout]

2 minutes ago, eligrba said:

Knowing the Angels, they would have drafted Sam Bowie.

Nice pull, lol

[ten ocho recon scout]

4 minutes ago, nando714 said:

I think he was afraid of more Brandon Wood and McPhersons happening so he starting spending on expensive vets that were proven 

That actually makes a lot of sense. I know firsthand moreno was really high on wood. Maybe after a few letdowns (wood, kotch, mcpherson) coming so close to each other, like you said...

I also think though it was more the overspend on pujols and hamilton, with the results are what made him gunshy. 

[Ohtaniland]

Arte is committed to attracting the Los Angeles market. That's why we have Alvarez, Ramirez, Espinosa, Maldonado, Escobar, Guerra, Hernandez, Nolasco, Chavez, Valbuena, Marte .........

[JAHV76]

2 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

Arte is committed to attracting the Los Angeles market. That's why we have Alvarez, Ramirez, Espinosa, Maldonado, Escobar, Guerra, Hernandez, Nolasco, Chavez, Valbuena, Marte .........

You're missing your favorite Angel Pujols

[Blarg]

Being committed to doing something doesn't insure success. Moreno could have continued with Bill Stoneman's philosophy of farm system over trades but without the proper scouts, fact checkers and a GM that can parse all the information you still have the Reagins and Dipoto drafts. A minor league filled with minor league players.

[Blarg]

10 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

Arte is committed to attracting the Los Angeles market. That's why we have Alvarez, Ramirez, Espinosa, Maldonado, Escobar, Guerra, Hernandez, Nolasco, Chavez, Valbuena, Marte .........

Clod, you've overstepped your tongue's ability to support your brains dysfunction. 

[Ohtaniland]

6 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Being committed to doing something doesn't insure success. Moreno could have continued with Bill Stoneman's philosophy of farm system over trades but without the proper scouts, fact checkers and a GM that can parse all the information you still have the Reagins and Dipoto drafts. A minor league filled with minor league players.

This whole debacle is the result of hiring three rookie GM's in succession. 

[Blarg]

Stoneman wasn't so bad as a rookie GM.

[zenmaster]

We'd still suck.

[Stradling]

10 hours ago, CALZONE said:

This whole debacle is the result of hiring three rookie GM's in succession. 

No it isn't. Plus what happened to your trust in Eppler and it's going to take time approach?  

[stormngt]

13 hours ago, Farmbuildingfan said:

We are in an alternate universe.

Back in 2003 when Moreno bought the Angels, he committed to building up his farm system and holding on to, and developing his own players.

In this alternate universe, Moreno upheld this commitment.

He has no interest in signing big time free agents or filling holes with journeyman.

Who would be on the Angels 25 man roster today in this universe?.

 

 

If this alternative universe existed we never would have signed Vladdy, Colon, or Escobar. And no domination of the AL West.

[Stradling]

We would probably still be considered a small market team that wouldn't have a $3 billion tv contract. 

[HaloNArizona]

14 hours ago, CALZONE said:

Arte is committed to attracting the Los Angeles market. That's why we have Alvarez, Ramirez, Espinosa, Maldonado, Escobar, Guerra, Hernandez, Nolasco, Chavez, Valbuena, Marte .........

You mean some California products...

Espinosa - Born in Santa Ana

Hernandez - born in Sacramento

Nolasco - Born in Corona

Chavez - Born in San Gabriel

[Angel Oracle]

14 hours ago, Blarg said:

Being committed to doing something doesn't insure success. Moreno could have continued with Bill Stoneman's philosophy of farm system over trades but without the proper scouts, fact checkers and a GM that can parse all the information you still have the Reagins and Dipoto drafts. A minor league filled with minor league players.

This....Moreno seemingly didn't care much about the behind the scenes people like the scouts and fact checkers.    That combined with hiring J. Pierpont Reagins and Dipeutered AND with totally botching the Latin American situation = farm disaster.    Eppler has a big job ahead of him.   The 2016 draft was a start.   Let's hope that Moreno has allowed Eppler to bring in a solid scouting/fact checking staff, and not have forced Eppler to continue going cheap on it. 

[Docwaukee]

there are 4 current General managers in all of baseball that had a previous job as a GM somewhere else.  The rest are 'rookies'.  One of those Jerry Dipoto.  

Think about why a guy with GM experience would be available.    

Moreno's lack of commitment to the farm has been catastrophic to this franchise and the #1 reason why we've had a difficult time succeeding over the last 7 years.  The only reason we even remotely have an outside chance just had thumb surgery.  

Allocating your financial resources to the major league club and skimping on player development is an obvious misstep.  This includes a lack of international presence (not sure this has ever been mentioned).  We basically took ourselves out of 30% of the available player pool.  

It's, however, not the only thing that has contributed to the catastrophe.  

- Jerry, the trader, Dipoto thinned out the ranks considerably for little gain. 

- Jerry also drafted high floor, low upside players for several years in a row.  The result has been a bunch of AAAA utility IFers, 5th Ofers and fringy pen arms.  Maybe a consequence of limited budget and resources but not likely in it's entirety.  

- Two things were also considerable factors but not really anyone's 'fault'.  One, a lot of teams build up their talent pool by hitting the reset button.  Not only that, but when there was any semblance of redundancy, it was used to supplement the big league club and not the farm.   Two, we've had lower draft choices because of where we've ended in the standings.  

 

It appears as if Eppler has convinced Arte to put resources back into player development so I am confident we are at least on a level playing field with the rest of the major league teams.  So it's going to boil down to how well we evaluate talent (like it does for everyone else).  Eppler's clean peanut philosophy makes sense.  Scour the upper minors for serviceable players with some upside who could still develop.  At the very least, you've met your filler quotient so you don't need to worry about that in the draft giving you the confidence to go big upside.  Bud Norris, David Hernandez, Blake Parker and Yusmeiro Petit are already more valuable than anything dipoto was able to piece together in the pen.  

In the end, player development and depth go a long way to helping cover free agent and trade mistakes.  

 

 

[Brandon]

hindsight obviously, but i was on board with trading with trading wood for manny ramirez and the howie for miguel cabrera proposed deals.

i'm mixed on farm systems because most guys don't make it. on the flip side, i'm 100% against paying guys for past performances like we did with albert.

[California Cajun]

17 hours ago, CALZONE said:

Arte is committed to attracting the Los Angeles market. That's why we have Alvarez, Ramirez, Espinosa, Maldonado, Escobar, Guerra, Hernandez, Nolasco, Chavez, Valbuena, Marte .........

How many billboards has he put up in Los Angeles in recent years?  

[Adam]

19 hours ago, Farmbuildingfan said:

We are in an alternate universe.

Back in 2003 when Moreno bought the Angels, he committed to building up his farm system and holding on to, and developing his own players.

In this alternate universe, Moreno upheld this commitment.

He has no interest in signing big time free agents or filling holes with journeyman.

Who would be on the Angels 25 man roster today in this universe?.

 

 

A lot of white guys

[Inside Pitch]

19 hours ago, Farmbuildingfan said:

We are in an alternate universe.

Back in 2003 when Moreno bought the Angels, he committed to building up his farm system and holding on to, and developing his own players.

In this alternate universe, Moreno upheld this commitment.

He has no interest in signing big time free agents or filling holes with journeyman.

Who would be on the Angels 25 man roster today in this universe?.

If that alternate universe still contained the people behind the drafts I don't know we see much of a difference.   An alternate universe where Bill Stoneman would have taken Arte's money and stayed on..  now that I would have loved to see.

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, Dochalo said:

It appears as if Eppler has convinced Arte to put resources back into player development so I am confident we are at least on a level playing field with the rest of the major league teams.  So it's going to boil down to how well we evaluate talent (like it does for everyone else).  Eppler's clean peanut philosophy makes sense.  Scour the upper minors for serviceable players with some upside who could still develop.  At the very least, you've met your filler quotient so you don't need to worry about that in the draft giving you the confidence to go big upside.  Bud Norris, David Hernandez, Blake Parker and Yusmeiro Petit are already more valuable than anything dipoto was able to piece together in the pen.  

In the end, player development and depth go a long way to helping cover free agent and trade mistakes.  

Eppler's work with a tight budget and his work with the clean peanuts is why I'm not doing any hand wringing.   I think the smartest thing we saw him do when he took over was he didn't fire everyone right away.  He took a year to acclimate himself to what we had both on the field and in player development then started to remake things.  I'm not Arte, I don't know what he's thinking, but based on recent history I imagine he's far more impressed with what Eppler has done and the return on guys like those you mentioned than at any point since Stoneman bolted.