Gameday: 4/30 Angels@Rangers

[Mark68]

Simba!

[Homebrewer]

This game is for ....

"Over .500 in April".

[HeavenlyHalos]

He's so damn fun to watch!

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

Where's the love for Yunel?

[Inside Pitch]

18 minutes ago, Mark68 said:

In both Richards' & Skaggs' cases, their injuries had zero to do with how many pitches they threw. Zip. Zilch. Nada. In both cases, we have already fragile pitchers, both had sprained UCLs, one had surgery, the other didn't. They have very little to do with whether Ramirez should have been pulled.

Ramirez threw 92 pitches in his last start. He was at 91 this time. He should have been able to get thru one more batter. Who knows...he could have induced a double play ball and gotten thru the inning without throwing many more pitches.

Or, the next hitter could have gotten on base, in which case, Sosh certainly would have been justified in getting him out of there. 

It worked this time, but it could have gone very badly. 

SMH..   talk about not seeing the forest for the trees...   The issue is that guys are already injured -- not how they got there -- I couldn't have made that more clear than I did..   Whats more I tried to clue you into why pulling him might have been the smart move...   Big picture wise.

But let me try again...  Many years ago really smart people who follow baseball started tracking the impact of increased workloads and it's impact on injuries..  Bill James in particular wrote several articles about it referring to it as "innings shock" and there is a ton of data that shows that most injuries occur when a pitcher is fatigued.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out a guy making the jump from RP to SP is dealing with a heavier workload than what would be his norm -- this is when fatigue sets in -- the climate in Texas only adds to it..

Congrats on repeating the info on pitch counts I just gave you..   Pity you don't understand why 90 pitches back to back is pretty much pushing it for now.

 

 

[DMVol]

8 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

How do I hit baseball

-Danny Espinosa, 2017

Starting to look a lot like Mathis, with a little more power

[Blarg]

19 minutes ago, Mark68 said:

In both Richards' & Skaggs' cases, their injuries had zero to do with how many pitches they threw. Zip. Zilch. Nada. In both cases, we have already fragile pitchers, both had sprained UCLs, one had surgery, the other didn't. They have very little to do with whether Ramirez should have been pulled.

Ramirez threw 92 pitches in his last start. He was at 91 this time. He should have been able to get thru one more batter. Who knows...he could have induced a double play ball and gotten thru the inning without throwing many more pitches.

Or, the next hitter could have gotten on base, in which case, Sosh certainly would have been justified in getting him out of there. 

It worked this time, but it could have gone very badly. Especially when you consider all the bullpen injuries and how few reliable relievers there are.

It workedbut...

But nothing, it was a sound decision.

[Mark68]

5 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

SMH..   talk about not seeing the forest for the trees...   The issue is that guys are already injured -- not how they got there -- I couldn't have made that more clear than I did..   Whats more I tried to clue you into why pulling him might have been the smart move...   Big picture wise.

But let me try again...  Many years ago really smart people who follow baseball started tracking the impact of increased workloads and it's impact on injuries..  Bill James in particular wrote several articles about it referring to it as "innings shock" and there is a ton of data that shows that most injuries occur when a pitcher is fatigued.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out a guy making the jump from RP to SP is dealing with a heavier workload than what would be his norm -- this is when fatigue sets in -- the climate in Texas only adds to it..

Congrats on repeating the info on pitch counts I just gave you..   Pity you don't understand why 90 pitches back to back is pretty much pushing it for now.

 

 

So what's the point of "stretching a pitcher out"? I mean, if they're not used to a large workload, then why acclimate them to one, since you're risking injury?

Since becoming a starter, Ramirez's workload has gradually increased each start...except this one. 

In his 3 previous starts, he had thrown 75, 83, and 92 pitches. Based on that progression, there should have been nothing wrong with him facing one more batter. 

If Scioscia was THAT concerned about overworking Ramirez, then maybe he shouldn't have come back out for the 6th. 

[Angels#1Fan]

@Mark68 Scioscia made the right decision..get over it.

[HeavenlyHalos]

I think he's safe... 

[Blarg]

Well, since you just watch the game on TV maybe there is more to all this than pitch counts. Like all that data everyone claims Scioscia and his coaching staff ignore when making decisions. All that data you don't have possession of. Maybe that's why it doesn't matter how may pitches he threw this game as opposed to his last start when it was decided his day was finished.

4 minutes ago, Mark68 said:

So what's the point of "stretching a pitcher out"? I mean, if they're not used to a large workload, then why acclimate them to one, since you're risking injury?

Since becoming a starter, Ramirez's workload has gradually increased each start...except this one. 

In his 3 previous starts, he had thrown 75, 83, and 92 pitches. Based on that progression, there should have been nothing wrong with him facing one more batter. 

If Scioscia was THAT concerned about overworking Ramirez, then maybe he shouldn't have come back out for the 6th. 

 

[AngelsLakersFan]

6 minutes ago, Mark68 said:

So what's the point of "stretching a pitcher out"? I mean, if they're not used to a large workload, then why acclimate them to one, since you're risking injury?

Since becoming a starter, Ramirez's workload has gradually increased each start...except this one. 

In his 3 previous starts, he had thrown 75, 83, and 92 pitches. Based on that progression, there should have been nothing wrong with him facing one more batter. 

If Scioscia was THAT concerned about overworking Ramirez, then maybe he shouldn't have come back out for the 6th. 

You may as well be saying, 'why have him pitch at all if he might get hurt?!'

[HeavenlyHalos]

Come on Bud.

[eligrba4ever]

Nice K, Bud.

[HeavenlyHalos]

F**k yeah Norris!

[Inside Pitch]

10 minutes ago, Mark68 said:

So what's the point of "stretching a pitcher out"? I mean, if they're not used to a large workload, then why acclimate them to one, since you're risking injury?

Since becoming a starter, Ramirez's workload has gradually increased each start...except this one. 

In his 3 previous starts, he had thrown 75, 83, and 92 pitches. Based on that progression, there should have been nothing wrong with him facing one more batter. 

If Scioscia was THAT concerned about overworking Ramirez, then maybe he shouldn't have come back out for the 6th. 

LOL.  

So basically, you disregard there being any need for caution because of cliches like "stretching a pitcher out".   What's more you saw fit to focus on what could have happened instead of what actually did happen.  Sorry..  you'll have to find someone else to argue stupid things with..   

But I'm glad Mike Scioscia isn't Tommy Lasorda or Terry Collins.   

[Mark68]

Just now, AngelsLakersFan said:

You may as well be saying, 'why have him pitch at all if he might get hurt?!'

That's pretty much what I'm getting at. If you're going to pull a pitcher who certainly didn't seem fatigued and who had thrown a similar amount of pitches to his last start because of the possible risk of injury, then why put him out there to start the inning...in which he could exceed whatever the "desired" pitch count is. Especially when our bullpen has already been weakened by injury and there aren't that many great options left, unless you want to overwork the decent bullpen arms (thereby risking more BP injuries).

The timing was weird.

And, this time, it worked. There have been numerous occasions where it hasn't.

[Blarg]

Again, you are focused on pitch count which is a false flag. 

[Angels#1Fan]

Marte BOMB!

 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

3 minutes ago, Mark68 said:

That's pretty much what I'm getting at. If you're going to pull a pitcher who certainly didn't seem fatigued and who had thrown a similar amount of pitches to his last start because of the possible risk of injury, then why put him out there to start the inning...in which he could exceed whatever the "desired" pitch count is. Especially when our bullpen has already been weakened by injury and there aren't that many great options left, unless you want to overwork the decent bullpen arms (thereby risking more BP injuries).

The timing was weird.

And, this time, it worked. There have been numerous occasions where it hasn't.

You'd complain if they hung you with a new rope. just kidding

[eligrba4ever]

MARTAY--PARTAY TIME!!!

[Mark68]

3 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Again, you are focused on pitch count which is a false flag. 

Well, considering that was the basis of IP's original response...

[HeavenlyHalos]

Three outs away from a winning April. Let's go Halos!~!~!~!

[Inside Pitch]

13 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Again, you are focused on pitch count which is a false flag. 

That's probably my fault -- I mentioned the pitch counts to try to make a point about the increased workload and the potential for fatigue and thus injury -- apparently it didn't register..  That being said I find it hilarious he's concerned about taxing the bullpen but sees nothing wrong with having a guy who was a RP as recently as two weeks ago double his workload...

Apparently it doesn't matter that Ramirez was a RP for 110 of his 114 appearances... because he's a SP now..

[Inside Pitch]

6 minutes ago, Mark68 said:

Well, considering that was the basis of IP's original response...

No, the potential for fatigue was and possible resulting injuries..    I used the pitch counts to try to convey the obvious but -- woosh..