No...No...No, this is not happening

[Stradling]

I have no idea if Sale has arm issues, but that wasn't your original point.  Richards probably isn't the same pitcher he was in 2014, but he allowed zero runs last night before the cramp and he was hitting 97/98 consistently.  So IF it's a cramp, and he pitches well, which last night showed zero indication he wouldn't pitch well if he's pitching, AND they decided to trade him, he would net us a decent haul.  

[Adam]

He lasted about 40 pitches longer than I thought he would. Well done!

[Troll Daddy]

Trade him and any hopes of winning a championship are dead. I'm sure Trout would approve.

A little too early in the season to talk about trading your ace totdprods.

[Ohtaniland]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I have no idea if Sale has arm issues, but that wasn't your original point.  Richards probably isn't the same pitcher he was in 2014, but he allowed zero runs last night before the cramp and he was hitting 97/98 consistently.  So IF it's a cramp, and he pitches well, which last night showed zero indication he wouldn't pitch well if he's pitching, AND they decided to trade him, he would net us a decent haul.  

If he establishes himself as a healthy Ace by the break you don't trade him unless we are cleaning house and or preparing for another rebuild. With the thin staff that we already have I don't see this happening. Additionally I don't believe he's truly healthy to begin with. How much of a haul would he get today?

[WeatherWonk]

The human arm is just not meant to throw a baseball 95-100 for extended periods. Of course, there are outlying freaks of nature like Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson but the number of TJ surgeries says they are the exception.

Pitching coaches in high school and up should be teaching pitchers to pitch like Greg Maddux (OK, so I have a woody for Maddux). He accomplished so much with 88-90.

The best pitchers that last are ones that change speeds and spot their mediocre fastball.

[Ohtaniland]

8 minutes ago, hangin n wangin said:

When I first read the report about Richards leaving with a bicep injury I was like....Mother fucking shit. But then I thought to myself....at least it isn't dehydration.

 

[totdprods]

24 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Trade him and any hopes of winning a championship are dead. I'm sure Trout would approve.

A little too early in the season to talk about trading your ace totdprods.

BS - a good GM is open to ideas for improving the club 365 days a year, be it buying or selling. That goes for Eppler and that goes for other GMs who could see Richards as a savvy mid-season buy. It goes both ways. 

Look, I’m an optimist. I think this team is going to contend, and I think this is just a cramp, and Richards will be fine. Truly. I believe that. And it is way too early to be writing off the team or Richards’ performance. A lot can change between now and May, now and July, now and next offseason.

But it would be foolish to ignore the fact that Richards' fate with the Angels could be coming to a crossroads in a hurry. He's a free agent after next season, he's going to be 30 next year, and even with the injection he still has a damaged UCL. Re-signing or extending an arm like that hasn't exactly been Eppler's MO. Personally, I would be all about resigning him, but based off the way Billy works, his future with this team after next season definitely is murky. Given that we don't have much of a farm yet and half the team is a FA after this year, our 2018 aspirations are closely tied to how this team looks come July. If we're doing good, than great, but if we're floundering, or even middling, a little blow-up could happen, and Richards could be a key piece of tradebait.

 

[Inside Pitch]

10 hours ago, CALZONE said:

Yes because our Angels medical staff is known to be the best in the business. That and the dugout MRI machine provided a solid diagnosis. 

Yeah that Dr Lewis Yocum was a real moron...    Milhouse..  total idiot...   The Kerlan-Jobe Clinic who the Angels still work with and OSI who they are currently partnered with have such terrible reputations.  

Makes you wonder why other teams send their guys to them for second opinions.

[totdprods]

It would come down to thinking how you'll get the most value of Richards while he's under contract. If this team isn't looking hot this year, next year probably isn't much better, which is the only timeline in which we know we'll have Richards. He may not be the ideal re-sign or extension candidate under those circumstances, given his age, cost (he's already making $7m this year and likely $9m-10m next year in arb.), and durability/health concerns. 

So, if the team is floundering, you turn to consider his trade value. When will he be worth the most? Will a team roll the dice and nab him this year so they have him for the '17 stretch run and '18 season (and the option of non-tendering him if his arm falls apart before the year is over) or do you move him next offseason when a team will only get him as a true rental? There's no right or wrong answer now, but it will be interesting to see how it plays out this year. 

This is a REALLY big year for Eppler and the team - it will be interesting to see if he stays measured, conservative, and incremental in his efforts, or if he takes a bolder approach as the deadline nears. We're losing a ton of players to FA this offseason and have a thin upper-farm, so he's going to have to work hard to build a competitive team for '18 again. If this team is middle of the pack, do you deal away these pending FAs and risk torpedoing our '17 chances to boost the farm and help '18 and beyond? Or do you hold onto these pending FAs, risk getting nothing for them, and still fill all their gaps in the offseason?

The bright side to this is he has put himself into a really good position to consider all options. He has a ton of roster flexibility and they are in good shape to safety take any approach; they can sell, they can stand pat, and they could buy a piece without really jeopardizing much. We haven't had that in a long time.

[Ohtaniland]

18 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Yeah that Dr Lewis Yocum was a real moron...    Milhouse..  total idiot...   The Kerlan-Jobe Clinic who the Angels still work with and OSI who they are currently partnered with have such terrible reputations.  

Makes you wonder why other teams send their guys to them for second opinions.

I certainly agree that these guys are tops in their profession but I doubt that any of them were at the game last night. It was called a cramp right away so it must of been the guy with the first aid kit and towel in his back pocket that made the call. I may be guessing but I think an MRI will be performed before he throws another pitch. 

[Thomas]

9 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

I may be guessing but I think an MRI will be performed before he throws another pitch. 

It's getting to the point where that is SOP for any player.

[Stradling]

They also said that that they don't think an MRI is necessary at this point.  

[zenmaster]

When will we get to the point technologically where they can just wear a sleeve that gives us a look in real time at their ligaments?  Fun times.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

1 hour ago, WeatherWonk said:

The human arm is just not meant to throw a baseball 95-100 for extended periods. Of course, there are outlying freaks of nature like Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson but the number of TJ surgeries says they are the exception.

Pitching coaches in high school and up should be teaching pitchers to pitch like Greg Maddux (OK, so I have a woody for Maddux). He accomplished so much with 88-90.

The best pitchers that last are ones that change speeds and spot their mediocre fastball.

But, Greg could bump it up to 95-97mph if he wanted to..... Trust me I saw it first hand at SPT 1988! We even spoke about it. Greg said strikeouts were cool but he wanted to keep his team in the game and it was the point to limit his pitches per inning and per game to give him more longevity in his career. He also suggested to us to move the ball around (in-out-up-down) (turn it over) (cut it) (adjusting of finger pressure similar to what Steve Rogers spoke to a bunch of us in 1984 at a baseball camp at Augie Garrido's Grand Slam. Which could allow us to have four different pitches off each pitch with different movement) and force the hitter to put the ball in play early on in the count.

At the same time with the pitcher being down and more frequently in the zone. Greg said that you will find your umpires zone will expand out for you as well....... (And we all know how that went)! Very analytical pitcher!

[Brandon]

Wait, Calzone is another doctor on this board?

[Ohtaniland]

10 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Wait, Calzone is another doctor on this board?

I'm extremely proud and honored to join the Angelswin medical staff. 

 

[well_red]

Trying to remember last time I saw a pitcher leave holding his arm like that and it wasn't long term bad news.  Biceps cramp, wtf?  

Even if the elbow is fine, I would be surprised if we saw him pitch again for the next few starts.  Let's hope, he looked good, though still seems to be overthrowing pretty frequently.

[Inside Pitch]

13 hours ago, CALZONE said:

I certainly agree that these guys are tops in their profession but I doubt that any of them were at the game last night. It was called a cramp right away so it must of been the guy with the first aid kit and towel in his back pocket that made the call. I may be guessing but I think an MRI will be performed before he throws another pitch. 

So basically when you mocked the Angels medical staff you were just being your usual Eeyore self and you willingly admit there is no factual basis for your negativity towards them -- thanks for clearing that up.  Guess what... teams always make an on field evaluation and pass that along to the media -- that's just how it is, it's not a situation unique to the Angels. 

As to you second point about the MRI -- I'd count on them to do that anytime either Richards or Skaggs so much as feels a twinge.  You may have missed it when you were busy burying Skaggs in ST, but the Angels have reportedly stepped up their post game and preventative measures to try to keep their arms healthier -- not only are they likely to do an MRI but I'm guessing they will follow through on their plans to have guys do a strength test immediately after games to see if there is any weakness there.    Heaney, Trop, Skaggs, GRich..  they will likely all be more heavily scrutinized moving forward.   

I would not be shocked to hear them skipping a guy's turn at various points in the year based on what those strength tests show.   I'm sure people will freak out ...but it may just be another way the game is changing.

[Inside Pitch]

44 minutes ago, Stradling said:

They also said that that they don't think an MRI is necessary at this point.  

I personally wouldn't put much weight into what they say.   There is some gamesmanship involved with injuries and how teams disclose information.   They did say at one point that all their pitchers would be doing strengths tests after their starts to try to more quickly catch potential problems -- if they follow through on that and there is anything remotely odd my guess is Richards gets an MRI..   Too much at stake not to take every precaution.

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I would not be shocked to hear them skipping a guy's turn based at various points in the year based on what those strength tests show.   I'm sure people will freak out -- but, it may just be another way the game is changing.

I think we will see this a lot this year as well, and just because they have a guy skip a start shouldn't imply he's on the verge of TJS. Definitely could be a reason why Eppler loaded up on AAA SP depth and multiple-inning relievers. 

For the foreseeable future, one of our critical components is having a dearth of affordable, young, effective SP so I expect them to be extra-careful in keeping them healthy and rested. We can't afford another onslaught of TJS.

[Inside Pitch]

15 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

I'm extremely proud and honored to join the Angelswin medical staff. 

 

Hey, if you watched ER and stayed in a Holiday Inn Express - I'm pretty sure you can practice medicine in some places...  

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

Hey, if you watched ER and stayed in a Holiday Inn Express - I'm pretty sure you can practice medicine in some places...  

There is an Urgent Care on every street corner now! 

[Troll Daddy]

His next start falls on a off day ... I can see him missing his next start. 

[zenmaster]

15 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

His next start falls on a off day ... I can see him missing his next start. 

Followed by the next 50 if our luck is any indicator.

[Taylor]

41 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

His next start falls on a off day ... I can see him missing his next start. 

Technically, if they schedule all of his starts on an off-day, they can say he was never injured.