Baseball Prospectus introduces "Tunneling"

[Inside Pitch]

14 hours ago, ettin said:

Woah! Nice one ukyah!

I still LOL when I think back to the time I referenced rocket scientists and you thought I was being snarky...    Good times!

 

[ettin]

14 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I still LOL when I think back to the time I referenced rocket scientists and you thought I was being snarky...    Good times!

 

I've grown as a human being IP, can't you see that?

[Inside Pitch]

It's more LOLing at the reality I didn't know what you did, and how EASY it would have been to make that connection, particularly since I can be snarky...   I seriously thought, holy crap..  No wonder he's upset.. LOL.

Like I said, good times.

[WeatherWonk]

4 hours ago, Oz27 said:

This is a strange take, which eaterfan did a good job of responding to.

I have no issue with people enjoying the game in the way they want to. But I have an issue with someone who comes into a sabr thread, acts in a condescending manner, making the same lame and tired "jokes" while telling sabr people they're enjoying the game wrong.That isn't "just ... someone wanting to enjoy the game for what it is", it is somebody being an ass.

You really think that constituted being an ass?

How thin-skinned can you be? What are you doing on this board, if you are that touchy?

 

[Blarg]

Hey,  Lighten up on Oz. He's from Australia so he is basically standing on his head all day. 

[ukyah]

On 1/30/2017 at 7:15 AM, Blarg said:

Space travel isn't a sport. It never was and the whole purpose was to speed up the learning curve of missile technology and later satellite, in a palatable format for the citizens to back. 

Baseball has become even more and more business orientated with greater attention on cost and risk analysis in every department and that includes player development. It doesn't advance the enjoyment by the core fans anymore than reading payload stats for a Saturn five booster rocket. 

In the end people went out to rocket launches for the sheer excitement of those massive engines firing up and the delay from where you were to when the sounds hits you and you start cheering. Like a great play you watch unfold, you are prompted to cheer and not because a pitchers xfip was altered by the Nth power and the hitter out played his babhip. Because it was awesome to watch in it's simplicity. 

I enjoyed the game a lot more before I started picking it apart for the statistical breakdowns. Now I find myself deciding whether to watch the rest of the game based on what the logical match ups would be and the percentages of a turnaround. Stupid. Had I done that years ago I might not had witnessed Eckstein hitting his 2nd grand slam home run in consecutive games,  winning it in the 14th in walk off fashion back in April of 2002. 

Naw, I'd still wait it out but recently I have been giving up on games that in the past I would have stuck it out not knowing the statistical improbably. I'm trying to get back to not giving so much if a fuck about the numbers and just enjoy the game while it is still a little less predictable. It may just evolve to 9th level chess,  boring as hell to watch. If it does I'm going fishing.

Without an electronic fish finder. 

 

 

with all due respect, what does your post have to do with anything that i said? 

you're not enjoying the game as much as you used to because teams are using in depth analysis over scouting? how does that relate to you watching a game? they're not broadcasting advanced analytics over the loud speakers. if you go to a game to watch a guy hit a baseball, then go to a game because that's what you're going to see.  don't blame a deeper understanding that happens elsewhere as complicit in your lack of enjoyment.

as far as the intentions of NASA and the individual mlb franchises with their exploration of their chosen fields and how they choose to understand more of it's nature? if you reduce it to weapons and satellites and big business, then i would say the real reason you don't enjoy baseball as much is because you've forgotten what passion is and i'd prescribe a change of eye level.

[Lou]

On January 29, 2017 at 10:09 PM, ukyah said:

did nasa take all the humanity out of exploration?

no. because the unexamined life is not worth living. people look closely and want to understand something more intimately because they care about it. 

or because they're pervs 

[tdawg87]

Blarg knows what passion is. His wife told me. So did Adam.

And me.

[AngelsLakersFan]

Once again a thread on statistical analysis devolves into an argument on 'the right way' to enjoy the game. And once again it's not the analytical crew who is doing it.

[Oz27]

1 hour ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Once again a thread on statistical analysis devolves into an argument on 'the right way' to enjoy the game. And once again it's not the analytical crew who is doing it.

PECOTA is out tomorrow, the responses from the usual anti-sabr crowd to that should be fun.

[Troll Daddy]

Did I hear someone say that teams are using analytics over scouting? 

 

 

 

[ukyah]

i really feel like maybe troll daddy had a stroke like 2 days ago. anyone able to do a welfare check?

[Stradling]

17 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Once again a thread on statistical analysis devolves into an argument on 'the right way' to enjoy the game. And once again it's not the analytical crew who is doing it.

I'm not against statistics but I am against the arrogance of some sabr guys.  So when Oz says I reserve the right to poke fun at you for purposely being ignorant it absolutely comes off as people who watch it without caring about the math are inferior.  To me, just to me I'm sure, that's different than someone saying something to the affect of, forget the stats and just enjoy the game.  

I have made the argument that I think we would enjoy the game more if we had zero idea what the players got paid.  

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

Isn't tunneling a little aggressive on those pitchers that may not have outstanding K/9 numbers? 

[Troll Daddy]

I enjoy the saber guys here and their opinions. Although, some will come off condescending and say things like ... "...there are people here who do useresearch  and intelligent thought. You should try it sometime" 

Analytics are the future and part of the equation to building a team and player evaluation. Although, most of these stats are speculative and should read 'buyer beware use at your own discretion'. I believe scouting to be a big part of the game still. 

[Blarg]

19 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Blarg knows what passion is. His wife told me. So did Adam.

And me.

That's it. your off the list for the next campout.

What happens in tents in Sequoia stays in the tents.

[eaterfan]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

I'm not against statistics but I am against the arrogance of some sabr guys.  So when Oz says I reserve the right to poke fun at you for purposely being ignorant it absolutely comes off as people who watch it without caring about the math are inferior.  To me, just to me I'm sure, that's different than someone saying something to the affect of, forget the stats and just enjoy the game.  

I have made the argument that I think we would enjoy the game more if we had zero idea what the players got paid.  

Do you have Weather Wonk blocked? Can you not see the post Oz was responding to? That would certainly explain where you're coming from. Taken out of context Oz's post is arrogant. But Oz wasn't simply saying I'm going to make fun of people who are purposefully are ignorant. Oz was responding to a post that Weather Wonk made that said sabr metric people don't enjoy the game the right way and are nerds, unless my interpretation of his guy in a lab coat is wrong. Weather Wonk wasn't simply saying "forget the stats and enjoy the game". 

But why isn't it arrogant of someone to tell me or oz or any number of posters how to enjoy the game or that I don't enjoy baseball? How is it not arrogant to assume you know better than I do how to better enjoy my baseball experience? 

[eaterfan]

5 minutes ago, hangin n wangin said:

Scouting and analytics aren't mutually exclusive.

Scouting is part of the game, obviously, and so are analytics.

Exactly right. In fact analytics rely heavily on scouting. 

Keith Law, for example is big into metrics. He also scouts and goes to hundreds of amateur and minor league games every year. He checks out the top draft talent and minor leaguers. He watches video of the players he can't see in person and talks to other scouts he trusts. If you read his player evaluations of draft and MiL prospects he almost always works in stuff he has seen with his own eyes or when he hasn't gotten the chance to see a prospect then he'll write about what the scouts he has talked to say. 

[Oz27]

4 hours ago, hangin n wangin said:

Scouting and analytics aren't mutually exclusive.

Scouting is part of the game, obviously, and so are analytics.

There was much speculation that the growth of sabermetrics would kill scouting when really the opposite has happened. Good scouting is as important as ever and good analytical decision making does and should factor in scouting information. The best front offices are the ones who have nailed both areas well.