Angels nearing multiyear deal with Luis Valbuena

[totdprods]

4 hours ago, Oz27 said:

Is anyone else surprised by our plans for Valubena? It appears much of his playing time will come at first base...

"It looks like C.J. Cron is going to have to fight for his at-bats this year.

After officially inking Luis Valbuena to a two-year, $15-million deal with a mutual option on Tuesday, Angels general manager Billy Eppler said Valbuena will see significant playing time at first base."

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/deal-742042-angels-completed.html

I find it strange for a couple of reasons. Firstly, Cron is probably a better hitter going forward. Marte might be too. But more than that, Valbuena can play at positions where he can be much more valuable. Fangraphs' projections put him down for a 97 wRC+ this year, which is fine for a second or third baseman but pretty terrible for a 1B. I didn't mind the signing when it was assumed Valbuena would spend most of his time at 2B/3B, but if we were looking for 1B help I can't help but wonder if Chris Carter would have been a better and cheaper option. I know Valbuena gets value from his versatility, but if the plan is for him to spend "significant playing time" at 1B much of that will be lost to us.

Yes, it is playing out more differently than I would have expected. It really sticks out more than the typical Eppler move.

I think either there is something else already in the works on in mind (such as a Cron trade), more to the Pujols situation than is being let on (maybe not setbacks or a change in timeline, but just uncertainty about how he will fare long-term), or we are seeing Eppler starting to shift gears from his two-year organizational 'soft rebuild' and go down a 'buyer' route a little earlier than anticipated. He may just see opportunity opening up to him with Revere, Valbuena, a theoretical Wieters deal, and the stock of pen arms still available, and feels are chances at the division aren't as insurmountable as they appeared when the offseason began.

[Ohtaniland]

On 1/20/2017 at 9:07 AM, Lou said:

he's Mexican?

órale !

 

[ettin]

5 hours ago, Oz27 said:

Is anyone else surprised by our plans for Valubena? It appears much of his playing time will come at first base...

"It looks like C.J. Cron is going to have to fight for his at-bats this year.

After officially inking Luis Valbuena to a two-year, $15-million deal with a mutual option on Tuesday, Angels general manager Billy Eppler said Valbuena will see significant playing time at first base."

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/deal-742042-angels-completed.html

I find it strange for a couple of reasons. Firstly, Cron is probably a better hitter going forward. Marte might be too. But more than that, Valbuena can play at positions where he can be much more valuable. Fangraphs' projections put him down for a 97 wRC+ this year, which is fine for a second or third baseman but pretty terrible for a 1B. I didn't mind the signing when it was assumed Valbuena would spend most of his time at 2B/3B, but if we were looking for 1B help I can't help but wonder if Chris Carter would have been a better and cheaper option. I know Valbuena gets value from his versatility, but if the plan is for him to spend "significant playing time" at 1B much of that will be lost to us.

I am not the least bit surprised:

That being said Valbuena didn't jump out at me as a possible replacement but he is nearly identical in total offensive production and he has more defensive versatility and will probably be an above average defender at 1B.

At this point it feels like the Angels will trade C.J. (I really do not think they want to stash him in the Minors that would be less than ideal). The only teams left that make any sense are the Rockies, Royals, and perhaps the Rays. All others appear to have their 1B/DH needs satisfied or have guys under contract that they have to play there.

By the way this means one of two things for Cron, either a ) the Angels believe that they have seen the best that C.J. will produce and want to use him as a trade chip before the rest of baseball catches on or b ) they think he still has room to improve but are willing to sell him now for other areas of need. There is a fine distinction between those two options but either way I think he has a reasonably good chance of getting traded now even more so than what I wrote in the Primer.

As someone else pointed out the Angels do not have to move Cron as he has one remaining option but again that is less than ideal for both parties. In all likelihood the Angels probably agreed to the framework of a trade some time back and were just waiting for all of the parties involved to make other moves before executing it (I could be wrong about that but certainly it feels pre-arranged in my mind).

In regards to Carter also two things: a ) He is horrible defensively at 1B and Eppler is following through on his word for good defense at every position and b ) Carter's platoon splits have leaned a little more towards LHP which is not what the Angels need (the team crushes LHP already).

[WeatherWonk]

5 hours ago, Oz27 said:

Is anyone else surprised by our plans for Valubena? It appears much of his playing time will come at first base...

"It looks like C.J. Cron is going to have to fight for his at-bats this year.

After officially inking Luis Valbuena to a two-year, $15-million deal with a mutual option on Tuesday, Angels general manager Billy Eppler said Valbuena will see significant playing time at first base."

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/deal-742042-angels-completed.html

I find it strange for a couple of reasons. Firstly, Cron is probably a better hitter going forward. Marte might be too. But more than that, Valbuena can play at positions where he can be much more valuable. Fangraphs' projections put him down for a 97 wRC+ this year, which is fine for a second or third baseman but pretty terrible for a 1B. I didn't mind the signing when it was assumed Valbuena would spend most of his time at 2B/3B, but if we were looking for 1B help I can't help but wonder if Chris Carter would have been a better and cheaper option. I know Valbuena gets value from his versatility, but if the plan is for him to spend "significant playing time" at 1B much of that will be lost to us.

I  think we should all look past this season and Valbuena at first. He will probably platoon with Cron.

His real value may come the following two years when Escobar is gone and we have a decent 3rd baseman. Nothing is coming up from the farm, it seems.

Or maybe Escobar is trade bait at the deadline, or sooner, and Eppler is smoke screening it.

[totdprods]

The fact that Cron is controllable for four more seasons helps his case big time too. Yes, Chris Carter is available and could be had cheap, but Cron at $600k this season and three years of control ahead is appealing. And also, some of these teams that have to be in a state of perpetual rebuild like the Rays, Royals, Athletics, etc. also probably see Cron's future growth as an opportunity to sell him after a big year much like we had hoped to do.

[DMVol]

5 hours ago, John Smith said:

"A new interest for the Rays could be Los Angeles Angels first baseman C.J. Cron, who could be dealt for the right piece, which would be starter Jake Odorizzi."

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/tampa-bay-rays-rumors-continue-to-explore-doable-options-012517?cmpid=feed:-sports-CQ-RSS-Feed

Odorizzi would be a good get.....I wasn"t being serious about Archer, since everybody missed that.....it would take a lot more than Cron to get him....

[AngelsLakersFan]

5 hours ago, Oz27 said:

Is anyone else surprised by our plans for Valubena? It appears much of his playing time will come at first base...

"It looks like C.J. Cron is going to have to fight for his at-bats this year.

After officially inking Luis Valbuena to a two-year, $15-million deal with a mutual option on Tuesday, Angels general manager Billy Eppler said Valbuena will see significant playing time at first base."

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/deal-742042-angels-completed.html

I find it strange for a couple of reasons. Firstly, Cron is probably a better hitter going forward. Marte might be too. But more than that, Valbuena can play at positions where he can be much more valuable. Fangraphs' projections put him down for a 97 wRC+ this year, which is fine for a second or third baseman but pretty terrible for a 1B. I didn't mind the signing when it was assumed Valbuena would spend most of his time at 2B/3B, but if we were looking for 1B help I can't help but wonder if Chris Carter would have been a better and cheaper option. I know Valbuena gets value from his versatility, but if the plan is for him to spend "significant playing time" at 1B much of that will be lost to us.

Obviously I don't know what they plan, but if I was running things he would be filling in for Albert while he's out, and playing 1B while Cron is at DH. He'd be the safety net at second if Espinoza is crapping the bed. He'd get AB's at third against righties when he's going well and Escobar isn't. 

Essentially there are a lot of opportunities all over the diamond for him to get playing time. I'll be disappointed if he's taking most of those ABs away from Cron, but I doubt that will happen if CJ is playing well.

[totdprods]

23 minutes ago, DMVol said:

Odorizzi would be a good get.....I wasn"t being serious about Archer, since everybody missed that.....it would take a lot more than Cron to get him....

Holy hell, Odorizzi would be fantastic. He is death incarnate against the AL West (except the Angels) in a small sample size, but encouraging nonetheless. Particularly good against the Rangers, Astros, and Mariners. 

Totals: 16 games, 96 1/3 IP, 69 H, 22 ER, 8 HR, 27 BB, 100 Ks. 
That's a 2.06 ERA, 0.996 WHIP, 6.44 H/9, 3.37 BB/9, .75 HR/9, and 9.34 K/9. 



 

[ukyah]

if they're talking to the rays, i'd hope that they would at least discuss archer just to see what could happen. odorizzi would be a good get for sure, but archer could be a game changer for the angels status.

[totdprods]

16 minutes ago, ukyah said:

if they're talking to the rays, i'd hope that they would at least discuss archer just to see what could happen. odorizzi would be a good get for sure, but archer could be a game changer for the angels status.

I agree, but I can't imagine any scenario where Archer doesn't return at least one, if not two, Top 50 prospects. Definitely within Top 100. Even if we could produce that, they're much better off waiting til the deadline and opening a bidding war. 

I think Snell would be great, but it'd take quite a bit to pull him away - the Rays are all about maximizing years of control and Snell has full control still. Cobb would be interesting and possibly more affordable, but we'd have to accept shaky results and an innings-limit as he works his way back, and I'm not sure we need to hang out pitching hopes on another arm with health/durability issues. I still stand firm that simply getting 180 innings, even league average variety, would bump us a handful of wins just by taking some load off the pen. 

I keep coming back to Andriese because he's a local boy, and teams often place a value on bringing a guy home (probably helps with future arbitration/extension possibilities and morale) and yes fairly unheralded. Not a lot of walks or homers, keeps the ball on the ground. He's displayed role versatility and while he's probably the least exciting, he'd still offer a young, quality arm, and so long as we're getting someone back who matches that description, we're doing alright. May be able to even work in another player from Tampa if he was the return. 

[totdprods]

Cron and Perez to Tampa for Andriese/Odorizzi and a prospect or reliever, give or take some on the fringes. Sign Wieters, sign Boone Logan.

Maybin, Escobar, Trout, Pujols, Calhoun, Valbuena, Wieters, Espinosa, Simmons

Marte, Revere, Pennington, Maldonado 

Rotation: Richards, Shoe, Skaggs, Nolasco, Chavez/Andriese/Odorizzi

Pen: Andriese/Chavez, Ramirez/Guerra, Alvarez, Logan, Bailey, Bedrosian, Street

Looks pretty good, especially when AAA pitching depth is taken into account. Pen is a little light and rotation still has some durability questions, but there's a lot of depth to compete for those spots, and ultimately, those arms need to step up. Eventually you have to put faith on the players to take that next step, and that seems to be what Eppler is creating.

[Brent Maguire]

11 hours ago, totdprods said:

What sort of pitching package would Tampa offer us for Cron and Perez? They need catching bad, even after Ramos, and now have a spot for a power bat with Forsyth dealt. Opens door for signing Wieters too. Cron fits their needs really well actually, would benefit from so many games in the AL East like Trumbo, and Perez would have ample playing time, even when Ramos is ready. Two controllable position players like them would be very valuable to a budget-wary team like the Rays.

Odorizzi, Cobb, Snell, Andriese, Ramirez, Cedeno...lots of interesting pitchers there. Lots of variations that could be in play.

I recently tweeted out a proposal: C.J. Cron, Carlos Perez and Eduardo Paredes for Odorizzi and Enny Romero. Rays get a cost controlled slugger w/ year to year improvements, a solid defensive catcher w/ control and a potentially nice reliever. Angels get 3 years of a mid rotation starter in the middle of his prime and a left handed reliever/starter with a huge fastball and good slider. Angels run the risk of Cron blowing up with a .280/.340/.450 type season but Odorizzi brings a huge dynamic as he makes the rotation WAY more reliable in 2017. Romero also has some big potential as a flame throwing lefty out of the pen and already has strikeout success in the majors. 

No clue how the Rays view Cron but they're searching for a 1B/DH and Cron would give them a long term answer there. Angels could hypothetically sign Wieters in this scenario too.

Richards/Shoemaker/Odorizzi/Skaggs/Nolasco

Escobar/Valbuena/Trout/Pujols/Calhoun/Wieters/Maybin/Simmons/Espinosa 

[Brent Maguire]

Well @totdprods beat me to it but looks like we have a similar idea. Odorizzi is a solid and reliable #3/4 guy but he's no stud by any means. Just solid production for 3 cheap years, which is why it'd take someone like Cron to fetch him. 

[beatlesrule]

If Odorizzi for Cron is an actual thing, the Angels have to do that ASAP. Like others here have suggested, if Perez is part of the deal, you sign Wieters to replace him. I think those two guys would give us a legit shot at the division and to go further in the playoffs. The pitching is the Angels question mark for me so getting Jake really helps.

[disarcina]

Valbuena adds some depth but not much more. I would prefer Escobar at 3B -- Maybin may be the Halos lead off hitter for 2017 but Escobar did pretty well there and makes contact.  Escobar D at 3B is better than I think has been commented about here -- but clearly he's not great with the glove at 3B but gets by OK.

Check Valuena's career stats, he has some power and had that one 24 HR season, with Houston, but he hit .224 last year and normally something like .248 is his high water mark......so he's an OK field (not great) at 1B/3B -- I think he's played some 2B as well. Has some power. Not sure about his base-running ability. But it sounds to me like we've signed another guy who stats resemble those put up by David Freese (who, BTW was one of the worst base runners I've seen on the Halos and that's saying a lot - he wasn't just SLOW he was a terrible base runner).

[Brent Maguire]

3 hours ago, disarcina said:

Valbuena adds some depth but not much more. I would prefer Escobar at 3B -- Maybin may be the Halos lead off hitter for 2017 but Escobar did pretty well there and makes contact.  Escobar D at 3B is better than I think has been commented about here -- but clearly he's not great with the glove at 3B but gets by OK.

Check Valuena's career stats, he has some power and had that one 24 HR season, with Houston, but he hit .224 last year and normally something like .248 is his high water mark......so he's an OK field (not great) at 1B/3B -- I think he's played some 2B as well. Has some power. Not sure about his base-running ability. But it sounds to me like we've signed another guy who stats resemble those put up by David Freese (who, BTW was one of the worst base runners I've seen on the Halos and that's saying a lot - he wasn't just SLOW he was a terrible base runner).

Valbuena hit .260/.357/.459 last year. Hit .224 the year before but also hit so many homers that he overcompensated for a lower average. 

I'm still not entirely convinced Valbuena plays 1B all that much more than 3B. His numbers rate him better than Yunel defensively and have for the past 3-4 years so he's capable of playing both 1B and 3B. I don't think anybody is claiming Valbuena is some stud but he's averaged about 2 wins a season for 4 straight years, which generally pays well on the market. The surgery he had that ended his season definitely played a part but I think 2/15 is going to be a massive bargain for the Angels. 

[totdprods]

I wonder if perhaps Eppler's comments about Valbuena playing first primarily was actually a reverse-psychology way to try and generate some trade interest in Cron. Make some comments to media, which he rarely does, and give the impression that Cron may be expendable or relegated to the bench or minors and see if it causes some teams to call trying to get him on a discount. 

Something about what he said just seems off script for the way he usually operates.

[Brent Maguire]

Not sure if this was posted elsewhere but Fangraphs has now had 2 articles praising the Valbuena signing:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/luis-valbuena-to-take-flight-in-la/

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/mark-trumbo-and-the-everyday-player-tax/

[totdprods]

9 minutes ago, Angels_Baseball said:

Not sure if this was posted elsewhere but Fangraphs has now had 2 articles praising the Valbuena signing:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/luis-valbuena-to-take-flight-in-la/

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/mark-trumbo-and-the-everyday-player-tax/

Awesome - like the bit about how he doesn't ground into many double plays. That'll definitely be a nice change.

[Glen]

On 1/24/2017 at 11:00 AM, Chuckster70 said:

He failed his physical. 

Just wanted to tip my cap to this post. It was beautifully done.

[Blarg]

On 1/25/2017 at 3:38 PM, Oz27 said:

Is anyone else surprised by our plans for Valubena? It appears much of his playing time will come at first base...

"It looks like C.J. Cron is going to have to fight for his at-bats this year.

After officially inking Luis Valbuena to a two-year, $15-million deal with a mutual option on Tuesday, Angels general manager Billy Eppler said Valbuena will see significant playing time at first base."

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/deal-742042-angels-completed.html

I find it strange for a couple of reasons. Firstly, Cron is probably a better hitter going forward. Marte might be too. But more than that, Valbuena can play at positions where he can be much more valuable. Fangraphs' projections put him down for a 97 wRC+ this year, which is fine for a second or third baseman but pretty terrible for a 1B. I didn't mind the signing when it was assumed Valbuena would spend most of his time at 2B/3B, but if we were looking for 1B help I can't help but wonder if Chris Carter would have been a better and cheaper option. I know Valbuena gets value from his versatility, but if the plan is for him to spend "significant playing time" at 1B much of that will be lost to us.

Chris Carter would have been a tragic choice. He has one skill and that is the home run,  We have that in Pujols. Having a balance between Cron and a versatile left handed hitter that can cover third and second as well,  is something the Angels needed. Carter does not move the needle forward for the Angels since he does not fill a hole in the lineup, he just creates a clog at one position. 

[Mark68]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

Chris Carter would have been a tragic choice. He has one skill and that is the home run,  We have that in Pujols. Having a balance between Cron and a versatile left handed hitter that can cover third and second as well,  is something the Angels needed. Carter does not move the needle forward for the Angels since he does not fill a hole in the lineup, he just creates a clog at one position. 

Yes, but Carter on the Angels keeps him from hitting tons of home runs against the Angels.

[Blarg]

Like Vernon Wells, picking him up would prevent him from hitting home runs in Anaheim as well. 

[Hubs]

Unlike Carter, Valbuena is a versatile player. They say he's going to play and I'd say he plays against every right hander,  but where he plays is up to Scioscia. He will play 3rd and 2nd combined almost as much as he plays first if he's hitting. Injuries also determine where he's playing. I know he hasn't played much second and Espinosa's defense is key but what if Simmons misses time again? Espinosa likely shifts and then Pennington plays 2nd and Valbuena first? Or Valbuena 2nd and Cron at first? Which is more likely? 

[Jeff Fletcher]

59 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Unlike Carter, Valbuena is a versatile player. They say he's going to play and I'd say he plays against every right hander,  but where he plays is up to Scioscia. He will play 3rd and 2nd combined almost as much as he plays first if he's hitting. Injuries also determine where he's playing. I know he hasn't played much second and Espinosa's defense is key but what if Simmons misses time again? Espinosa likely shifts and then Pennington plays 2nd and Valbuena first? Or Valbuena 2nd and Cron at first? Which is more likely? 

I don't think Valbuena is going to play 2B except in an emergency.