A Hypothetical Case for Matt Wieters

[Angel Oracle]

10 hours ago, totdprods said:

Eppler is perhaps the quietest GM out there. He never really gives anything of substance out to the press, even when something is pending. There's nary a blip from outside/unconfirmed sources before any signing usually as well.

He's like all NHL orgs with disclosing injury news.

[Jeff Fletcher]

Just doing some research today and wanted to share this with you guys....

Matt Wieters

2014, age 28: 308/339/500

2015, age 29: 267/319/492

2016, age 30: 243/302/409

[Stradling]

Martin Maldonado

2014- .234/.320/.387

2015- .210/.282/.293

2016- .202/.332/.351

[Angel Oracle]

Not bad for Maldonado, a .683 OPS in 2016 despite a low .202 BA

Eppler understands the importance of OBP and putting the ball into play.

[Jeff Fletcher]

Obviously Wieters is a better hitter than Maldonado but I'm just pointing out he's going the wrong direction, so if the Angels sign him you shouldn't get your hopes too high on what he'll do. 

[gurn67]

If they can get him on an Abreuesque last minute one year desperation (for Weiters knowing he needs a starting job and at bats) type deal, go for it. Otherwise, pass.

[DMVol]

23 minutes ago, gurn67 said:

If they can get him on an Abreuesque last minute one year desperation (for Weiters knowing he needs a starting job and at bats) type deal, go for it. Otherwise, pass.

I don't know that it has to be a total steal but a one year deal would seem to me to be a no brainer....if he continues to regress, not much lost or invested....

[Inside Pitch]

15 hours ago, Stradling said:

Martin Maldonado

2014- .234/.320/.387

2015- .210/.282/.293

2016- .202/.332/.351

Martin Maldonado

14 - 502K,

15 - 825K,

16 - 1.250M, (1.7 WAR 2.2 per 650 PA 14-16)

Matt Weiters

14 - 7.7M,

15 - 8.3M,

16 - 15.6M, (3.2 WAR, 2.9 per 650 PA 14-16)

One of these guys is massively overrated, and expensive.  The other one is already signed for 1.7 Mil this year.  Like Fletcher says -- Weiters has been trending down -- catchers don't typically get better in their 30s.

 

[DMVol]

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Martin Maldonado

14 - 502K,

15 - 825K,

16 - 1.250M, 1.7 WAR 2.2 per 650 PA

Matt Weiters

14 - 7.7M,

15 - 8.3M,

16 - 15.6M, 3.2 WAR, 2.9 per 650 PA

One of these guys is massively overrated, and expensive.  The other one is already signed for 1.7 Mil this year.

 

It's a little hard to judge just how overrated and expensive Wieters will be for 2017 until he signs somewhere....he isn't going to get 15.6 again (that was a qualifying offer from last year) and he probably isn't going to get a multi-year deal to his liking (which is why he may settle for a Boras one year "pillow" deal).....is he overrated and too expensive if he signs a one year deal at 8/9 million?  Maybe not...

[Erstad Grit]

Who cares if he is regressing as long as his downward year or years here are still significantly better than what we have had? 

[Inside Pitch]

21 minutes ago, DMVol said:

It's a little hard to judge just how overrated and expensive Wieters will be for 2017 until he signs somewhere....he isn't going to get 15.6 again (that was a qualifying offer from last year) and he probably isn't going to get a multi-year deal to his liking (which is why he may settle for a Boras one year "pillow" deal).....is he overrated and too expensive if he signs a one year deal at 8/9 million?  Maybe not...

Sure, it's too early to say he is expensive moving forward but it's not hard to argue how expensive and overrated he's been in recent years and that was what was being comped in the post I responded to.  

So what do you think are the chances he signs for less than what Carlos Gomez did?   I understand his options are dwindling, but he's another one of those guys who isn't likely to believe he's not worth a lot more.  Gomez got 11.5...  A guy viewed as a part time player (Valbuena), just got a 2 year 15 mil contract.. How low do you think Weiters will be willing to go, and just how much are you willing to pay for a guy who's been marginally better over 650 PAs than Maldonado?

Mostly, I'd rather they throw money at arms at this point.  I'd sooner advocate signing Weiters in hopes of him creating trade value than I would for actual performance -- I just don't think he is going to become the player many envisioned.  Injuries have really hurt him.

 

[DMVol]

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

....Mostly, I'd rather they throw money at arms at this point.  I'd sooner advocate signing Weiters in hopes of him creating trade value than I would for actual performance.

Therein lies the rub.....whatever you spend on Wieters might go to pitching instead....only qualifier I would put on it would be if there is something to the Cron to TB for a pitcher stuff....if Perez were to go with Cron in that kind of deal, I might sign Wieters for a year (if it's doable)....

[Inside Pitch]

4 minutes ago, DMVol said:

Therein lies the rub.....whatever you spend on Wieters might go to pitching instead....only qualifier I would put on it would be if there is something to the Cron to TB for a pitcher stuff....if Perez were to go with Cron in that kind of deal, I might sign Wieters for a year (if it's doable)....

I like Cron...  Im one of those guys that thinks his best years are in front of him.   He has value..  I think he will have more..   

I think some of my issues are I view 2017 as less about contending and more about helping fuel the next Angels run.   Not saying they can't compete, I'm just in favor of creating a new, better, window.

Anyway -- I don't hate Weiters, I just think he's more name than production these days.   He would make them better, just not sure he makes them a lot better.

[DMVol]

5 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I like Cron...  Im one of those guys that thinks his best years are in front of him.   He has value..  I think he will have more......

I like him more than most here....He can hit....the Trumbo comparisons are unfair because I think he's clearly a better overall hitter (Trumbo is strictly a power guy)....I like his upside because he has consistently shown improvement in the bigs (not that it guarantees continued improvement).....but, all that said, Eppler's comments about Valbuena getting AB's at 1b seemed (perhaps) a little telling....maybe I read too much into what he said....As much as I like Cron, I'm not sure I would turn down a trade involving Odorizzi....really uneasy about the pitching going forward and a solid rotation guy vs a solid 1b/DH is a trade I'd think about it....

[Angel Oracle]

22 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I like Cron...  Im one of those guys that thinks his best years are in front of him.   He has value..  I think he will have more..   

I think some of my issues are I view 2017 as less about contending and more about helping fuel the next Angels run.   Not saying they can't compete, I'm just in favor of creating a new, better, window.

Anyway -- I don't hate Weiters, I just think he's more name than production these days.   He would make them better, just not sure he makes them a lot better.

In other words, signing him would be the OLD Halos way of doing things (declining star).   

I like this new way of doing things (no bad signings since over 4 years ago).   In Eppler We Trust

[Jeff Fletcher]

The Angels aren't trading Cron (or anyone) until they see how healthy everyone is. Besides, I think there's still a lot of skepticism of how good Cron is, plus a few other 1Bs on the FA market (Napoli, Carter, Moss).

He could be traded in July or next winter, depending how other things look. 

Just too many question marks now to trade him. 

[beatlesrule]

He's worth trading for Odorizzi.

[Docwaukee]

14 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Obviously Wieters is a better hitter than Maldonado but I'm just pointing out he's going the wrong direction, so if the Angels sign him you shouldn't get your hopes too high on what he'll do. 

you've got sample size issues in 2014/15 Jeff.  He had tommy john surgery.  

I think you are getting a better bat, and he actually turned things around defensively last year so his defense could be comparable.  Is that worth 8-10 mil?  probably not although it kinda depends on what you could get for perez on the FA market.  So still probably not.  

[Mark68]

23 hours ago, Erstad Grit said:

Who cares if he is regressing as long as his downward year or years here are still significantly better than what we have had? 

This.

Wieters on a 1-2 year deal at about $16-20 million (for two) would be fair, IMO.

[California Cajun]

On Friday, January 27, 2017 at 10:44 AM, Mark68 said:

This.

Wieters on a 1-2 year deal at about $16-20 million (for two) would be fair, IMO.

I think the Angels would go for that.  I was thinking along the lines of 1 year $10 million. 

[Inside Pitch]

On 1/26/2017 at 0:01 PM, Erstad Grit said:

Who cares if he is regressing as long as his downward year or years here are still significantly better than what we have had? 

Iannetta as an Angel -- 105 OPS+.   Weiters for his career -- 98 OPS+  Weiters would be an offensive downgrade from what we got from Iannetta.  Weiters OPS+ last year was 87.  Iannetta's gawd awful 2015 came in at 78.

Obviously Weiters would be an uptick over what we have seen the last couple of years but there seems to be this belief going around that he's a better player than he's actually ever been..  His career best OPS+ in any full season was 110 ..... five years ago.

Dude needs to take a one year make good contract from someone and call it a day.

 

[DMVol]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

...Obviously Weiters would be an uptick over what we have seen the last couple of years but there seems to be this belief going around that he's a better player than he's actually ever been....

I don't that is a belief within the industry....Baseball folks don't seem overly impressed....it's a few days from Feb and he hasn't found a home....

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, DMVol said:

I don't that is a belief within the industry....Baseball folks don't seem overly impressed....it's a few days from Feb and he hasn't found a home....

Talking about among Angels fans....  MLB seems to have a better grasp on his value.   But the divide between what he is and what some people here think he is seems pretty wide.    

[AngelStew43]

Maybe toward the end of ST we could put something together like Cron and Escobar for a very unhappy Evan Longoria?

[totdprods]

56 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

Maybe toward the end of ST we could put something together like Cron and Escobar for a very unhappy Evan Longoria?

He'd get to be with his buddy Forsythe in LA haha!

In all seriousness, back when Turner was a hot topic, I wondered if perhaps dealing Escobar and his salary would become more doable if we added Cron or Perez into the deal somewhere too. Wonder if that could open up as the year went on, not necessarily for Longoria, but perhaps somewhere else.