Dipoto still churning the M's roster

[bloodbrother]

Trading a guy immediately after just trading for them. I think it's time that Jerry addresses his addiction

[totdprods]

It's getting to a point where it's almost not funny. Hard to build any organizational or club-level cohesiveness or chemistry when everyone is not only spinning in and out, but also wondering when they may be next. Has to give some FAs pause too. Not sure that any of that has any real weight or hurts their chances of competing, but it can't help.

Wonder what pitcher he's turning Smith into...have to be someone pretty damn good to justify giving up Gohara and Burrows.

[ettin]

15 minutes ago, bloodbrother said:

Trading a guy immediately after just trading for them. I think it's time that Jerry addresses his addiction

Dipoto is to trading as Trump is to Tweeting.

[WeatherWonk]

37 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Dipoto sends Luiz Gohara and Thomas Burrows to Atlanta for Shae Simmons and Mallex Smith. 

Yeah, Simmons and Smith both are young and have a lot of control still, but Dipoto continues to thin out that farm. Trades like this, when done at the volume in which Dipoto deals, fall right in line to what happened to the Halos system.

Mariners also Cody Martin DFAed, who is another arm I could see the Angels having some interest in.

Agreed, but............if ownership says, "I want a championship NOW", what's a GM to do? I can see Moreno making that kind of demand. It fits his irrational signings of Albert and Hambone.

Possibly the same mindset exists in Seattle. Remember, they are one of only TWO organizations that have never even been in a World Series. Their ownership group could be becoming impatient, while Felix and Cano age and Cruz' contract fades. 

Trading the farm away fits this mindset. Just a possibility.

[bloodbrother]

29 minutes ago, totdprods said:

It's getting to a point where it's almost not funny. Hard to build any organizational or club-level cohesiveness or chemistry when everyone is not only spinning in and out, but also wondering when they may be next. Has to give some FAs pause too. Not sure that any of that has any real weight or hurts their chances of competing, but it can't help.

Wonder what pitcher he's turning Smith into...have to be someone pretty damn good to justify giving up Gohara and Burrows.

 

Jerry Dipoto has made 11 trades since Nov. 1, 37 total in his 472 days as Mariners GM, swapping a total of 89 different players

[totdprods]

10 minutes ago, WeatherWonk said:

Agreed, but............if ownership says, "I want a championship NOW", what's a GM to do? I can see Moreno making that kind of demand. It fits his irrational signings of Albert and Hambone.

Possibly the same mindset exists in Seattle. Remember, they are one of only TWO organizations that have never even been in a World Series. Their ownership group could be becoming impatient, while Felix and Cano age and Cruz' contract fades. 

Trading the farm away fits this mindset. Just a possibility.

Oh yeah absolutely, I'm sure at least some of this is due to a sense of urgency to go all the way right now, and the moves he is making don't really take away from that. He seems to take things a little to the extreme though. 

Nothing he has done has really dramatically improved their chances, but he's increasing the chances of the org falling through some thin ice.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I feel he probably could have made a bigger, or safer, improvement in fewer moves. All these incremental improvements come with incremental risk, but given that most trades don't really pan out as successes, he's just putting heat to the ice they're skating on.  It's like he is playing Jenga.

Its almost like he tries too hard to make the clever trade or volume trade rather than just making the big, obvious trade - one that brings clear, obvious improvement.

[m0nkey]

On 1/7/2017 at 2:44 PM, Troll Daddy said:

You're correct in your assumption .... although, most pitchers his age have pitched a lot of innings if you're including their minor league innings. He had a off year but he also had off years from 2006-2007 seasons. I doubt the Mariners have any interest in trading him anyways. He's capable of winning another CY Young award.

I'd like to congratulate you in correctly using "you're" for the first time 

[bloodbrother]

Drew Smyly headed to the Mariners

 

 

#Rays have acquired OF Mallex Smith, minor league SS Carlos Vargas & minor league LHP Ryan Yarbrough from SEA in exchange for LHP Drew Smyly

— Tampa Bay Rays (@RaysBaseball) January 11, 2017

[Troll Daddy]

28 minutes ago, m0nkey said:

I'd like to congratulate you in correctly using "you're" for the first time 

I had a face to face conference with spell check ... thank you for you're approval.;)

[totdprods]

So, essentially he traded Luiz Gohara, their #5 prospect, Ryan Yarbrough (#11), Thomas Burrows (#25) and another prospect for two years of a #3-4 type in Drew Smyly and a mid-reliever coming off TJ in Simmons. 

[bloodbrother]

Smyly tore his labrum in his pitching shoulder back in 2015 but never had surgery for it. Opted for rehab instead

[Troll Daddy]

3 minutes ago, totdprods said:

So, essentially he traded Luiz Gohara, their #5 prospect, Ryan Yarbrough (#11), Thomas Burrows (#25) and another prospect for two years of a #3-4 type in Drew Smyly and a mid-reliever coming off TJ in Simmons. 

Business as usual

[Angel Oracle]

Dipeutered..... Trader Jack McKeon's love child

[totdprods]

Just seems he probably could have pulled off getting a pitcher far better than Smyly with his farm, kept Walker, either kept Marte at SS or acquired another one for a lesser cost than Segura, and not had to lose Karns or take on Gallardo. 

Felix, Iwakuma, Paxton, someone better than Smyly, Walker....that's a way more lethal rotation than what they have now. If you're going to wind up trading everybody anyways, why not concentrate it into someone who is leaps and bounds better?

[Oz27]

This doesn't fit the narrative here, but...

"Drew Smyly isn’t an ace, and the Mariners added two more high-risk players to a team that already had a lot of risk, but this team now looks like their playoff hopes are more than just hope-a-bunch-of-things-go-right. With another quality starter and a potential quality reliever, plus a solid group of position players, the Mariners look like contenders now."

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/okay-now-the-2017-mariners-are-interesting/

It's both reasonable and responsible for the Mariners to go for it now. Their team was never set up to win in three years, it was set up to win soon, due to moves made before Dipoto's arrival and since then too. In their circumstances, they needed to make their best effort to win now and this is a pretty reasonable attempt to do that. I still like the Astros' 2017 chances more than I do the Mariners' but Seattle is good too.

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

Just seems he probably could have pulled off getting a pitcher far better than Smyly with his farm, kept Walker, either kept Marte at SS or acquired another one for a lesser cost than Segura, and not had to lose Karns or take on Gallardo. 

Felix, Iwakuma, Paxton, someone better than Smyly, Walker....that's a way more lethal rotation than what they have now. If you're going to wind up trading everybody anyways, why not concentrate it into someone who is leaps and bounds better?

I think Jerry targets specific players because he thinks that they are going to be better than they have been.  For instance, he's going after certain pitcher skill sets that are optimized by being in Seattle and the AL west.  

Honestly doesn't feel like they gave up much to get him. 

I agree with oz that they should be going all in, but I still don't think they are more than merely competitive.  

In classic dipoto fashion, I feel like their floor is pretty high, but to be honest, I'd be very worried about felix.  Could they win the division?  I think they now have as good a chance as any team in the west.  

[Inside Pitch]

3 hours ago, totdprods said:

Just seems he probably could have pulled off getting a pitcher far better than Smyly with his farm, kept Walker, either kept Marte at SS or acquired another one for a lesser cost than Segura, and not had to lose Karns or take on Gallardo. 

Felix, Iwakuma, Paxton, someone better than Smyly, Walker....that's a way more lethal rotation than what they have now. If you're going to wind up trading everybody anyways, why not concentrate it into someone who is leaps and bounds better?

Dipoto had Gohara traded to the Reds for Cozart last year only to have the deal fall apart when they couldn't get it finalized in time (trade deadline), with the league offices last year.   He actually ended up getting better value there than he would have in that deal IMO.

33 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

In classic dipoto fashion, I feel like their floor is pretty high, but to be honest, I'd be very worried about felix.  Could they win the division?  I think they now have as good a chance as any team in the west.  

He definitely chased high floor and it's easy to make a case for why he's doing it.   You look at the FG.com projected standings and the difference between his current team and ours is the amount of volatility in the Angels projection -- the M's are a safer bet to hit that 84 win median.   Adding more certainty in Gallardo and Smyly (even with whatever issues they carry); should help buffer any further decline that might occur at the top of that rotation.  It's a safe move...  whatever long term issues it may cause it's a smart move for a team trying to put it together now.

Angels fans will likely look at the moves as more of the same and it's an easy connection to make, but IMO Dipoto is correctly acting on what appears to be a weak AL.  He has IMO correctly identified a window in which to compete.

[Oz27]

43 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I'd be very worried about felix. 

I'm beyond that. The dude is pretty much toast - he might have another couple of 1-ish WAR seasons left in him but that is as optimistic as I can get. But I still think they can be pretty good even without getting much production from him.

[Docwaukee]

23 minutes ago, Oz27 said:

I'm beyond that. The dude is pretty much toast - he might have another couple of 1-ish WAR seasons left in him but that is as optimistic as I can get. But I still think they can be pretty good even without getting much production from him.

maybe.  I have a bit of a difficult time imaging they are going to get 19 WAR from Cano, Seager and Cruz again.  

I think their offense will produce at a level similar to ours.  I think Felix is the key for Seattle and Richards is the key for us.  I can't imagine either team succeeding enough to be a playoff contender without having those guys doing well for their respective teams.  Overall, I see their rotation as being similar to ours as well.  

Their pen is way better though.  Right now, that's the big difference to me.  

[Oz27]

28 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

maybe.  I have a bit of a difficult time imaging they are going to get 19 WAR from Cano, Seager and Cruz again.  

I think their offense will produce at a level similar to ours.  I think Felix is the key for Seattle and Richards is the key for us.  I can't imagine either team succeeding enough to be a playoff contender without having those guys doing well for their respective teams.  Overall, I see their rotation as being similar to ours as well.  

Their pen is way better though.  Right now, that's the big difference to me.  

I'll be interested to see what PECOTA says but Fangraphs has them as pretty good. Fangraphs' projection for Felix (3.1 WAR) is way too optimistic. But their projections for many others seem quite pessimistic. Cano is coming off a 6 WAR year but is pegged for only 3.7 WAR. Segura's projection is 2.9 wins below his 2016 production, for Seager it is 1.5 WAR and for Cruz it is 1.9. They already project as the 10th best team, according to Fangraphs, and I think that is selling them short - even once you knock Felix down a bit.

[ettin]

They have some great bullpen pieces, scary good in some ways actually. Zych is coming back too.

Most GM's like to build their team in their own vision. Jerry really has moved a lot of product around trying to optimize what he wants. I like pro-activeness by a GM and executing on a strategy but it feels like Dipoto is just TOO busy, like if he cut down by about 20% you would say hey he had a productive offseason. Instead you feel frenzied and not quite sure what their team is now (even though Dipoto thinks he does).

The Mariners will be competitive though without a doubt. They are fairly well rounded as a team with balanced rotation, upside power bullpen, and enough offense and defense to get it done.

[Troll Daddy]

I'm thinking that if Felix is toast ... then the Mariners are toast. 

I'm also not as high on their bullpen as some here are ... Diaz was filthy but still to new to rate. Cishek had a bounce back season, will see. If starting pitching struggles then the bullpen will too. 

 

[Docwaukee]

16 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

I'm thinking that if Felix is toast ... then the Mariners are toast. 

I'm also not as high on their bullpen as some here are ... Diaz was filthy but still to new to rate. Cishek had a bounce back season, will see. If starting pitching struggles then the bullpen will too. 

 

It only works like that when you are trying to minimize the pen's exposure because they aren't very good or only good situationally.  

took a closer look at their pen.  they are talented but untested across the board sans Cishek.  

there's a chance that a bunch of the depth Eppler The Elephant created with his peanut collection in Campos, Pounders, Banuelos, Lamb, De La Rosa, Ramirez, Guerra, Yates, Wright, Parker, and our young guys in Middleton, Paredes, Meyer could be pretty good.  It's just gonna take a while to weed through all of that and our existing crew.  

[CanadianHalo]

DiPoto has traded away 54 players in 35 separate deals since being named GM on September 28, 2015.

9 players currently on 40-man roster were on 40-man roster in September, 2015.

[Blarg]

Take a look at Eppler's record and tell me it is not the same. Last season the 40 man roster had 26 new faces from the previous season. 3rd base, shortstop and second base were repaced along with the perrenial left field position. The entire bench was replaced and this season we are seeing a lot of the same along with starting pitchers and an overhaul of the bullpen and minor league depth chart. 

This is the list of transactions since Eppler's took over.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/LAA/2016-transactions.shtml