What would it take to make the 2017 season a success?

[Ohtaniland]

10 minutes ago, Blarg said:

For myself success would be the Angels turning the corner and moving towards being as strong as the previous decade was. This one feels a little bit like the 90's with a couple of talented players but not much built around them. A team not yet comprised.

We have a 10 war player and he has the ability to cover a lot of the teams shortcomings. 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, ANAHEIMBOB said:

Trout is the better player. I couldn't give Trout the MVP because the Angels finish 21 games back.  I just think Altuve was more valuable  to Houston then Trout was to the Angels.

Houston was 2.5 games out of first and tied for the wild card on July 24th.  At the time, Altuve had a 1.003 ops.  From that point forward, Altuve had an .810 ops and the team went 30-33 finishing 11 games back of the division and 5 back of the wild card.   They were 6 games back of the WC on August 18th and managed to get themselves within a a couple of games in early sept (6th).  From that point Altuve had a .743 ops and the team went 10-14.  

[Docwaukee]

6 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

We have a 10 war player and he has the ability to cover a lot of the teams shortcomings. 

which is why there is an argument for overpaying a bit to make up for those shortcomings.  You don't have as far to go to make yourself a good team.  

[Docwaukee]

42 minutes ago, Blarg said:

For myself success would be the Angels turning the corner and moving towards being as strong as the previous decade was. This one feels a little bit like the 90's with a couple of talented players but not much built around them. A team not yet comprised.

The late 90's teams (like 97 and 98) are interesting comps.  We had GA, Salmon and Edmonds in the OF but our IF was a disaster until Glaus showed up.  And dear god that pitching staff although surprisingly, they actually performed ok relative to the rest of the league because offense in general was going crazy.  

 

[Ohtaniland]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

which is why there is an argument for overpaying a bit to make up for those shortcomings.  You don't have as far to go to make yourself a good team.  

Arte has overpaid many players and that plan hasn't worked very well. He even tried to go all out Steinbrenner and failed miserably. We have Trout, Pujols, Cron, Simmons, Calhoun, Maybin, Maldonado, Escobar, Espinosa, Street, Shoemaker, Richards, Noloasco, Skaggs, Chavez, Bailey, Morin, Alvarez, Guerra and a few more. It's really time for these veteran baseball players to prove they can play to win. None of these guys are rookies and they need to earn their money or GTFO. 

[Stradling]

if only they weren't playing against better talent that was also trying to earn their money. 

[Docwaukee]

The thing I like about this team is that their core of good players stands to be together for the next 3-4 years.

Bedrosian, Heaney, Tropeano - 5yrs

Trout, Simmons, Skaggs, Shoe, Cron - 4 yrs

Calhoun - 3yrs

Richards - 2yrs.  

My ten step program to success in 2017:

1.  Richards stays healthy.  This is probably #'s 1,2, and 3 for me.  He's at least a solid #2 in my view.  If his arm holds up, I would like to see him get an extension.  I think you could get him on the cheap because of his injury history.  Maybe 2-3 yrs is all with a couple of team options.  

2.  The team, with a healthy pitching staff, gets back to being competitive.  I think we should win 84-88 games if healthy.  

3.  The bullpen proves me wrong.  Street comes back to form, Bedrosian recovers from injury and dominates again.  Morin turns a corner and becomes something I don't think he can.  One of the clean peanuts become a dominant or at least good reliever.  Bailey, Ramirez, and Guerra put up similar numbers to last year.  Middleton and Paredes become late inning guys.  Chavez pitches well enough in the rotation to allow for a starter to become a dominant reliever.  Not all of those things need to happen, but the end result needs to be 2-3 dominant late innings guys, and another 2-3 very solid guys that we can go to when tied or down by a small amount.  

4.  Cron takes it up a notch.  We need him to be our future #4/5 hitter because Albert ain't getting any younger.  I would say Albert has leveled off, but that won't last forever.  The dude can barely walk.  

5.  Meyer and Skaggs perform well.  A huge factor to the future success of this team.  If both can lock down a rotation spot or maybe one rotation spot and the other becomes dominant in the pen, that would make 2018 and 19 so much easier when Heaney and Trop return (see #6)

6.  Heaney and Trop are pitching in the minors by the end of the season.  Rebuilding arm strength so they are ready to go in 2018

7.  A realistic approach to the deadline.  If we are at .500, and guys like Street, Nolasco, Revere, Maybin, Espinosa, Bailey or Escobar are performing well, then we move then for parts.  If we are a couple games out of the wild card, I am fine with standing pat.  No trading farm pieces for marginal increases in our chances of making the post season

8. The 'building around defense' thing works.  We outperform because of it.  

9.  Our farm system takes a step forward.  The breakouts from Hermosillo and Jones are built upon.  A couple more guys break out.  Last years draft class performs well.  Thaiss continues to turn heads.  A couple more guys turn some heads ala Hermosillo.  I want to be excited about our system again.  

10.  The general sense that the approach Eppler is taking is working.  The team doesn't have to win a WS for me to be happy with progress.  Just give us confidence that we are moving in the right direction.  

[Ohtaniland]

12 minutes ago, Stradling said:

if only they weren't playing against better talent that was also trying to earn their money. 

They just need to try harder. There have been many teams that have won a championship with less talent than their opponents. it's takes heart, good managing and leadership. Have we addressed those things yet? That doesn't cost much. Dedication is free.

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

They just need to try harder. There have been many teams that have won a championship with less talent than their opponents. it's takes heart, good managing and leadership. Have we addressed those things yet? That doesn't cost much. Dedication is free.

This is ridiculous. It takes talent to be relevant.  Try harder isn't going to get it done.  Remember when Aybar, Hunter and Vlad would try harder and get thrown out by a mile trying to take an extra base?  

[Brent Maguire]

19 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

They just need to try harder. There have been many teams that have won a championship with less talent than their opponents. it's takes heart, good managing and leadership. Have we addressed those things yet? That doesn't cost much. Dedication is free.

"Try Harder"

The new market inefficiency in 2017. 

[Stradling]

THAR

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

4 hours ago, ANAHEIMBOB said:

Trout is the better player. I couldn't give Trout the MVP because the Angels finish 21 games back.  I just think Altuve was more valuable  to Houston then Trout was to the Angels.

MVP = Most Valuable Player, not most valuable player on a contender, Houston didn't make the playoffs either. Would the Angels have been better if they had Altuve and no Trout? Would Houston have been better with Trout but no Altuve?

Trout is the Most Valuable Player in baseball, and has been every year since he was a rookie.

P.S.

If 2 players are neck and neck for the MVP with comparable STATS then by all means let the teams record be the tie breaker, but last year Trout was so much better than Altuve no tie breaker was necessary. In fact Altuve wasn't even the second best player.

[Ohtaniland]

17 minutes ago, Stradling said:

This is ridiculous. It takes talent to be relevant.  Try harder isn't going to get it done.  Remember when Aybar, Hunter and Vlad would try harder and get thrown out by a mile trying to take an extra base?  

I'm willing to bet that no player on the Angels roster comes out and says "sorry fans, we are just not good enough to win so stay home" 

[Stradling]

11 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

I'm willing to bet that no player on the Angels roster comes out and says "sorry fans, we are just not good enough to win so stay home" 

Which means a total of dick.  So are you saying if the Twins, who also wouldn't come out and say that to their fans, if they would have tried harder they would have won it all?  

[Troll Daddy]

12 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

I'm willing to bet that no player on the Angels roster comes out and says "sorry fans, we are just not good enough to win so stay home" 

Dude, it's just a game ... get over it. The FO has put together a competitive team. Let's sit back and enjoy Angel baseball. 

This team has as much heart as any other team.

[Ohtaniland]

1 minute ago, Troll Daddy said:

Dude, it's just a game ... get over it. The FO has put together a competitive team. Let's sit back and enjoy Angel baseball. 

This team has as much heart as any other team.

That's what I'm trying to say. 

[Stradling]

They have heart but could really use some talent in that bullpen.  

[Ohtaniland]

31 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Which means a total of dick.  So are you saying if the Twins, who also wouldn't come out and say that to their fans, if they would have tried harder they would have won it all?  

The Twins would have to try harder than the Angels to win a championship.

[Stradling]

Yes and ten plus teams would have to try less hard as the Angels. 

[Troll Daddy]

51 minutes ago, Stradling said:

They have heart but could really use some talent in that bullpen.  

They have talent in the bullpen

[Docwaukee]

3 hours ago, CALZONE said:

Arte has overpaid many players and that plan hasn't worked very well. He even tried to go all out Steinbrenner and failed miserably. We have Trout, Pujols, Cron, Simmons, Calhoun, Maybin, Maldonado, Escobar, Espinosa, Street, Shoemaker, Richards, Noloasco, Skaggs, Chavez, Bailey, Morin, Alvarez, Guerra and a few more. It's really time for these veteran baseball players to prove they can play to win. None of these guys are rookies and they need to earn their money or GTFO. 

this is another Carole 'Calzone' Moreno fart in a stiff wind.  

The yankees had the highest payroll 14 years in a row from 2000-2013.  

The highest the Angels have ever been is 3rd (in 2006) @103 mil.  That year the Yankees had a payrolll of 194 mil.  

Arte's free agent plan didn't work because they chose the wrong players.  He chose the wrong players.  For the wrong reasons.  

He's not steinbrenner and never has been.  Every free agent makes what the market dictates.  Some perform to that level and most don't.  It's the price of doing business.  Arte is no different than any other large market owner other than his choices have sucked the last few years.  

The notion that the players need to play to win is crap.  As if they don't.  

Let the baseball people pick the players.  

The team has some talent.  It could be better with better if Arte had made better choices.  It could be better if Arte had given some payroll flexibility to his baseball people.  

To assume that previous bad decisions automatically dictate bad decisions in the future is stupid.  

[Stradling]

Yep, my favorite is when Claude says in one post, they need to try harder, but then when I point out they need more talent, he says that the players don't just tell the fans to go home because they suck.  That basically implies that the players do care and are trying, so yea, once again Claude is being Claude and pretending it is something other than talent.  

[Tank]

3 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

MVP = Most Valuable Player, not most valuable player on a contender, Houston didn't make the playoffs either. Would the Angels have been better if they had Altuve and no Trout? Would Houston have been better with Trout but no Altuve?

Trout is the Most Valuable Player in baseball, and has been every year since he was a rookie.

P.S.

If 2 players are neck and neck for the MVP with comparable STATS then by all means let the teams record be the tie breaker, but last year Trout was so much better than Altuve no tie breaker was necessary. In fact Altuve wasn't even the second best player.

define valuable. that's where all of this gets muddy.

valuable does not necessarily mean most talented or best stats, and that's why there's always a lot of disagreement about the award. the aaron award is given to the best player, but at this point it's nowhere near the MVP in importance.

you can argue that a team's place in the standings is irrelevant, but it seems to me that someone who is 'most valuable' is going to make his team better and the players around him better. that ought to count for something in this discussion.

[Tank]

4 hours ago, CALZONE said:

They just need to try harder. 

I can hardly wait to see this painted on top of the dugouts this coming season!

[Stradling]

Aybar lead the league in THAR most seasons.