The Official Angels Hot Stove - Winter Meetings - Rumors thread

[Stradling]

20 minutes ago, Redondo said:

I'm not in favor of signing players in the twilight of their careers to long term contracts. Especially for such large amounts. Handicaps the team if they decline rapidly. 1-2 year deals that average a bit more per year, but gives us more flexibility may be a better way to go if a younger player is not available.

Are we at the stage where a 31 year old is in the twilight of their career?

[tdawg87]

I would absolutely take Turner on a 4 year deal.

If we're at the point where any free agent past age 30 who would greatly help out the team for the next few years scares us because we only want guys on 2 year deals at most, then we are officially done signing impact free agent players and will stalk the waiver wire for the rest of time. 

[tdawg87]

29 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Are we at the stage where a 31 year old is in the twilight of their career?

FA's under 30 who will greatly help the team and sign for cheap are a dime a dozen you idiot.

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Are we at the stage where a 31 year old is in the twilight of their career?

If we were talking about traditional aging curves for players like Turner post color barrier....we actually would be.  

In the days before modern day workout regimens and PEDs, players were considered to be out of their primes by age 31 -- truly great players obviously had longer declines but Turner has never been a truly great player.   Kinda related... through the late 80s there used to be a GP number at which 2B were considered to be living on borrowed time and most of them reached it by age 30.   I remember being excited about the Angels getting Harold Reynolds because he was still relatively young only to have Preston Gomez tell me they were hoping he might last the season but they didn't think he would.   He didn't.  Johnny Ray was another guy who fit a similar profile and like Reynolds was out of MLB by age 33.  Even guys like Ryno saw his performance go off a cliff after age 33 -- ditto Robbie Alomar.

Turner obviously hasn't been a 2B so, I'm not saying any of that applies but it's really neat to see how aging curves have changed as players have invested more time into working out and the sort.

Guys play better longer than ever..  But, there are still risks

[ukyah]

as i said in my previous post, turner has quite a ways to fall before he's at escobar's level. so a 4 year deal would probably work out just fine, because it's reasonable to think that as he regresses his 4th year may still be better than escobar this year.

i'd point out to jeff, just from a personal perspective, i'm not really all that interested in what i think the angels ARE going to do, because that's a mouse on a wheel. i'm just interested in exploring the possible answers to solving the puzzle.

[Lou]

11 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Johnny Ray was another guy who fit a similar profile and like Reynolds was out of MLB by age 33.

Damn, I really liked Johnny Ray...

before we acquired him. 

[Lou]

On December 10, 2016 at 2:20 PM, Erstad Grit said:

Down years of turner are exponentially better than what we've had.  

True, but what we've had didn't cost us $17 million/yr 

[Lou]

On December 9, 2016 at 3:06 PM, ukyah said:

if the whole purpose of owning an mlb franchise is to make money, then count me out. i want a george steinbrenner who derives some sort of ego fuel from owning a championship winning team. i want an owner who measures his dick by winning.

give me rodney dangerfield circa caddyshack or back to school.

I'm not sure the goal would be to make money, but I would bet an important goal would be to not lose money 

[Angel Oracle]

8 hours ago, Lou said:

Damn, I really liked Johnny Ray...

before we acquired him. 

Hey now, he did have the single season franchise record (42) for doubles until GA shattered it in 2002 (56).

[Troll Daddy]

On 12/9/2016 at 6:47 AM, Troll Daddy said:

The Angels are very interested in Turner. You can bet there's a offer already in place. I'm guessing 4/65M for starters.

Looks like the Dodgers read my post. 

[Brent Maguire]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/jason-hammel-useful-free-agent/

How about Jason Hammel for the rotation? Should be reasonably inexpensive and doesn't cost a pick. Moves Chavez to a swingman role. 

[ukyah]

On 12/12/2016 at 5:32 AM, Lou said:

I'm not sure the goal would be to make money, but I would bet an important goal would be to not lose money 

just saw this, there is no way in any part of the multiverse that any of these owners are losing money. as i said before, corporate accounting in general, and more so at this level, is pure fiction.

[ukyah]

On 12/12/2016 at 4:37 PM, Troll Daddy said:

Looks like the Dodgers read my post. 

interesting way to re-characterize your initial post. lol

[ukyah]

37 minutes ago, Angels_Baseball said:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/jason-hammel-useful-free-agent/

How about Jason Hammel for the rotation? Should be reasonably inexpensive and doesn't cost a pick. Moves Chavez to a swingman role. 

 

He’s never reached 180 innings pitched in a season, and given that he was shut down at the end of the year with elbow problems, any team signing him should probably expect him to spend some time on the DL. He’s also going to be 34 next year, and his home run problem seems to only be getting worse as the stuff degrades.

 

digest that, and then realize that the cubs just let him go during an offseason with almost no SP. didn't trade him, just let him go.

after digesting all of that, then consider what are his contract demands going to be in this particular pitching drought of an offseason?

[ettin]

24 minutes ago, ukyah said:

 

He’s never reached 180 innings pitched in a season, and given that he was shut down at the end of the year with elbow problems, any team signing him should probably expect him to spend some time on the DL. He’s also going to be 34 next year, and his home run problem seems to only be getting worse as the stuff degrades.

 

digest that, and then realize that the cubs just let him go during an offseason with almost no SP. didn't trade him, just let him go.

after digesting all of that, then consider what are his contract demands going to be in this particular pitching drought of an offseason?

That's a lot of digesting, you may want to see this thread:

 

[John Smith]

Angels still searching for a fourth outfielder

The Angels general manager said Monday there are “conversations going on (about pitchers) but it’s a little more idle than the extra position player.”

"The Angels also could go for someone like Brandon Moss, who can play the corner outfield spots and also provide some coverage at first base if C.J. Cron slumps or gets hurt."

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/angels-738896-billy-works.html

[Troll Daddy]

I'm still liking Franklin Gutierrez as a 4th outfielder. I sure he prefers a starters job. 

[Brent Maguire]

5 hours ago, ukyah said:

 

He’s never reached 180 innings pitched in a season, and given that he was shut down at the end of the year with elbow problems, any team signing him should probably expect him to spend some time on the DL. He’s also going to be 34 next year, and his home run problem seems to only be getting worse as the stuff degrades.

 

digest that, and then realize that the cubs just let him go during an offseason with almost no SP. didn't trade him, just let him go.

after digesting all of that, then consider what are his contract demands going to be in this particular pitching drought of an offseason?

How many guys reach 180 innings nowadays anyways? If he gave the team 150-160 average innings, that'd be a big help at the end of the rotation. The Cubs let him go in part because they really like Mike Montgomery and there's still the chance they trade for a cost controlled starter, which makes Hammel expendable.

The elbow issues are obviously a concern but I don't think anybody knows how serious it actually is. I'm not claiming the guy is a must sign but if you could get him on a 2/24 deal and still have room to add a reliever and 4th outfielder, it's at least feasible, no?

[arch stanton]

Hammel gets smacked around in the AL. I think there's better options for the money.

[Brent Maguire]

1 hour ago, arch stanton said:

Hammel gets smacked around in the AL. I think there's better options for the money.

Who else is available that you'd rather take? Just curious.

With no draft pick+ a short term commitment+good numbers for 3 straight years, I think there's some things to like here. Obviously it comes down to price. 

[arch stanton]

The numbers were ok with the Cubs but not so good with the A's. Then you look at the fact that he's getting 30+ starts and still can't make 180 innings he's another bullpen killer. He's been getting 9 mil a year for production we can probably duplicate with what's in house for 550K

[tdawg87]

We have like, 6 back-end rotation guys. If they're going to spend 9 million dollars they need to get a solid reliever.

[Glen]

Waiting for the Angels to improve the bullpen:

 

[Troll Daddy]

The FO might decide to wait on the bullpen until ST unfolds. 

[ettin]

2 hours ago, Glen said:

Waiting for the Angels to improve the bullpen:

 

Great Glen now the Angels are going to go out and sign some Independent league guy named Joey Chandler to a Major League deal to throw out of our bullpen!