The Official Angels Hot Stove - Winter Meetings - Rumors thread

[Stradling]

18 minutes ago, ispy45 said:

 We don't need a Turner, it's a waste of money in our limited budget.

Turner    runners in scoring position BAA  .325

Escobar runners in scoring position BAA   .362

(highest on our team)

 

Escobar is not going to play 2B. Plus, Escobar trade value isn't giving us a 2B.

We will ignore the 3 extra wins Turner provides. 

[beatlesrule]

21 minutes ago, ispy45 said:

 We don't need a Turner, it's a waste of money in our limited budget.

Turner    runners in scoring position BAA  .325

Escobar runners in scoring position BAA   .362

(highest on our team)

 

Escobar is not going to play 2B. Plus, Escobar trade value isn't giving us a 2B.

Like it's already been stated, Turner had a 5.6 war in 2016.  We aren't going to sign him but it's not because he wasn't as good with runners on as Escobar.  He simply costs money and our owner doesn't want to spend any.

[Jeff Fletcher]

Did anyone notice that Justin Turner is 31 and his avg and OBP have both gone down 2 years in a row?

And whoever signs him is going to be paying like $15-18M a year for ages 32-33-34-35?

No?

OK. Carry on. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

13 hours ago, Angels#1Fan said:

Does anyone have proof that the Angels actually attended the winter meetings?

Lol

[Billy_Ball]

That's why I actually like those 20 something year old peanuts that Eppler keeps picking up.  No risk.

[ten ocho recon scout]

19 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Did anyone notice that Justin Turner is 31 and his avg and OBP have both gone down 2 years in a row?

And whoever signs him is going to be paying like $15-18M a year for ages 32-33-34-35?

No?

OK. Carry on. 

Thats what im thinking. i think hed be a huge upgrade for us, obviously. But i think thats going to be a bad contract. it sould be ok if we hadnt been burned by so many the last few years...i just think hes a pumpkin candidate.

[tdawg87]

I'm thinking similar things were said about Beltre. 

I'm not an advocate for Turner, but if he were to sign for say, 4/64, I think you have to pull the trigger. I'm guessing he'll get 5 years which is definitely pushing it but I see no reason he can't remain a 3 WAR player for the next 3 seasons, even with a decline.

 

[Lou]

On December 8, 2016 at 8:58 AM, Coachbulldog said:

 

It has been a while since I visited, but it was nice to drop by and see Vernon Wells and Gary Matthews Jr. are still being mentioned here at Angelswin! 

stay away any longer and someone will be posting: "it has been a while since I visited, but it was nice to drop by and see Vernon Wells, Gary Matthews, Jr. and Coachbulldog are stil being mentioned here at Angelswin!" 

[ispy45]

Trouts and Pujols RBI production drops without Yunel.

 

The War stat is misleading to our needs. Justin Turner is not going to bat 3rd or 4th on our team like he did for the Dodgers.Plus, the age and OBP as Fletcher mentioned.   Signing Turner would be signing him to make a move and not improve our team. Save that money for DJ LeMahieu in 2018 forget Manny.

7 hours ago, beatlesrule said:

Like it's already been stated, Turner had a 5.6 war in 2016.  We aren't going to sign him but it's not because he wasn't as good with runners on as Escobar.  He simply costs money and our owner doesn't want to spend any.

 

[Docwaukee]

3 hours ago, ispy45 said:

Trouts and Pujols RBI production drops without Yunel.

 

The War stat is misleading to our needs. Justin Turner is not going to bat 3rd or 4th on our team like he did for the Dodgers.Plus, the age and OBP as Fletcher mentioned.   Signing Turner would be signing him to make a move and not improve our team. Save that money for DJ LeMahieu in 2018 forget Manny.

 

Wins are misleading to our needs?

[Docwaukee]

Another interesting thing about turner is that this was his first true full season.  The most plate appearances he had prior to 2016 was 487 in 2011.  So I don't see his numbers as a decline as much as a leveling off because of increased PT.  But the concern for decline going forward is certainly real.  

I can definitely see the argument either way.  I am on board with not handcuffing our payroll for 2019.  

But the team still needs improvement and I don't know where it's gonna come from unless we give up farm talent which is in limited supply.  

Right now, I don't see a huge market for Turner.  I know Andrew Friedman sees that as well.   You've got the Dogs and ........maybe the giants?  I think the Dogs are holding steady on a 3yr offer for around 50.  I am not sure who's going to give him more than that.  But I think he'll go back to LAD if he is choosing between three year deals so it would take 4yrs to get him.  That age 35 season is the kicker.  I certainly agree it would suck to be paying him 17-18 mil during that time.

Hey Jeff - do you have an idea what the Padres were asking for Asuaje?  

[Blarg]

3 hours ago, Dochalo said:

Wins are misleading to our needs?

He didn't say that.

[Erstad Grit]

Down years of turner are exponentially better than what we've had.  

[ukyah]

23 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Did anyone notice that Justin Turner is 31 and his avg and OBP have both gone down 2 years in a row?

And whoever signs him is going to be paying like $15-18M a year for ages 32-33-34-35?

No?

OK. Carry on. 

155, 139, 124. justing turner's ops+ numbers over the last 3 years, as his playing time increased. 

escobar? 92, 115, 108. 

turner's got quite a way to fall before it's break even offensively, and defensive improvement isn't even a part of that picture.

his batting avg and oba last year? .275 and .339, i'll take those numbers from a quality fielding 3b. he has the ability for his numbers to go back up to somewhere near the levels of the 2 years before that, also.

big picture is, the weak spot in our defense is 3rd and 1st, with pujols limited to dh.

there is an avenue where turner seems to fit the established gameplan.

 

ok. carry on.

 

[Oz27]

On 10 December 2016 at 5:01 AM, ispy45 said:

Trouts and Pujols RBI production drops without Yunel.

 

The War stat is misleading to our needs. 

 

Wut? WAR is just a calculation of how many runs a player is worth. I don't get how that is "misleading to our needs".

[Chuck]

How about Escobar & Cowart for Solarte to play 3B?

 

[totdprods]

1 minute ago, Chuckster70 said:

How about Escobar & Cowart for Solarte to play 3B?

 

Maybe if you throw in two MLB-ready pitchers.

[UndertheHalo]

I feel like at this point Cowart is pretty much worthless.  

[totdprods]

5 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I feel like at this point Cowart is pretty much worthless.  

Yup. He may not even make it to ST without being DFA'ed. Espinosa, Pennington, Marte, Fontana all ahead of him, with at least two of those bringing plus defense, arguably Cowart's only plus at this point.

[ukyah]

yep, it seems that cowart's future as an angel has passed him by. probably best for him to be released/traded and find an opportunity elsewhere.

[Jeff Fletcher]

16 hours ago, ukyah said:

155, 139, 124. justing turner's ops+ numbers over the last 3 years, as his playing time increased. 

escobar? 92, 115, 108. 

turner's got quite a way to fall before it's break even offensively, and defensive improvement isn't even a part of that picture.

his batting avg and oba last year? .275 and .339, i'll take those numbers from a quality fielding 3b. he has the ability for his numbers to go back up to somewhere near the levels of the 2 years before that, also.

big picture is, the weak spot in our defense is 3rd and 1st, with pujols limited to dh.

there is an avenue where turner seems to fit the established gameplan.

 

ok. carry on.

 

No question Turner is better than Escobar. The question is whether you want to commit yourself to him for 4 years and $60-75M. 

Escobar is $7M for one year then adios. 

[Stradling]

I guess you have to ask yourself how much is his replacement going to cost in 2018?  Will there be equal or better options in 2018?  How many holes do you want to fill during those great free agent classes?  Without Turner or a long term solution at 3rd, then next off season we will be looking to replace, LF, 3rd, 2nd and the Bullpen, not named Bedrosian.  So sure we will have a lot of money off the books, but I highly doubt we will turn into the 2004 Angels off season, where we signed Vlad, Guillen Colon, and Escobar.  

[Jeff Fletcher]

On 12/10/2016 at 9:16 AM, Dochalo said:

Another interesting thing about turner is that this was his first true full season.  The most plate appearances he had prior to 2016 was 487 in 2011.  So I don't see his numbers as a decline as much as a leveling off because of increased PT.  But the concern for decline going forward is certainly real.  

I can definitely see the argument either way.  I am on board with not handcuffing our payroll for 2019.  

But the team still needs improvement and I don't know where it's gonna come from unless we give up farm talent which is in limited supply.  

Right now, I don't see a huge market for Turner.  I know Andrew Friedman sees that as well.   You've got the Dogs and ........maybe the giants?  I think the Dogs are holding steady on a 3yr offer for around 50.  I am not sure who's going to give him more than that.  But I think he'll go back to LAD if he is choosing between three year deals so it would take 4yrs to get him.  That age 35 season is the kicker.  I certainly agree it would suck to be paying him 17-18 mil during that time.

Hey Jeff - do you have an idea what the Padres were asking for Asuaje?  

No I don't. I know the Pads need starting pitching. 

The problem with all of this trade speculation is none of us really knows how the Angels value players on other teams, how they value players in their organization, or vice versa. That's basically four whole sets of data that we can only guess at. 

For example this week I learned that Angels never really liked Jace Peterson at all. To me, he seemed like a good fit. 

So we're all just kind of guessing. I know more than you guys, but that means I can see 2 percent of their thinking and you guys can see 1 percent (what they say publicly).

[Redondo]

3 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

No question Turner is better than Escobar. The question is whether you want to commit yourself to him for 4 years and $60-75M. 

Escobar is $7M for one year then adios. 

I'm not in favor of signing players in the twilight of their careers to long term contracts. Especially for such large amounts. Handicaps the team if they decline rapidly. 1-2 year deals that average a bit more per year, but gives us more flexibility may be a better way to go if a younger player is not available.

[JAHV76]

6 minutes ago, Redondo said:

I'm not in favor of signing players in the twilight of their careers to long term contracts. Especially for such large amounts. Handicaps the team if they decline rapidly. 1-2 year deals that average a bit more per year, but gives us more flexibility may be a better way to go if a younger player is not available.

Yep the Hamilton contract really blows