Pirates exploring deals for Andrew McCutchen

[Stradling]

Just now, yk9001 said:

Getting a superstar who is starting his downward trend?  The Angels have never done something like that before....

Which means absolutely nothing if he cost the team two years at $14 million a year.  

[HaloCory22]

13 hours ago, Tank said:

when you run for public office, this post is going to be a problem for you.

Or it gets me elected.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

If the price is right I wouldn't be against it but I don't think the Angels match up with Pitt.  I realize he had a down year last year but he just turned 30 (still in the prime of his career), a change of scenery could do him good and his current contract is through 2018 paying him an average of 14.25M each of the next 2 years.  If the Angels think they have a chance to compete in the next 2 years then it's cheaper and less risky than signing a comparable FA bat.  

[Stradling]

Plus he had a bad year in CF and he wouldn't be a CFer on this team.  He would gain value moving to LF because he would be a very good defensive left fielder.  

[totdprods]

35 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Plus he had a bad year in CF and he wouldn't be a CFer on this team.  He would gain value moving to LF because he would be a very good defensive left fielder.  

I can't see that value being worth what we'd give up to get him. And Maybin already may wind up being a good defensive LF, so we wouldn't even be improving much there. I don't think Maybin would be the best 4th OF, and he doesn't seem to have much trade value. Calhoun or Cron (with Calhoun moving to 1B) would probably have to be the odd man out and I'm not sure if their return would be enough to negate what we send out for Cutch.

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I can't see that value being worth what we'd give up to get him. And Maybin already may wind up being a good defensive LF, so we wouldn't even be improving much there. I don't think Maybin would be the best 4th OF, and he doesn't seem to have much trade value. Calhoun or Cron )with Calhoun moving to 1B) would probably have to be the odd man out and I'm not sure if their return would be enough to negate what we send out for Cutch.

I don't know what it would cost to get Cutch, but there is a huge difference between him and Maybin.  

[totdprods]

14 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I don't know what it would cost to get Cutch, but there is a huge difference between him and Maybin.  

Defensively? I know there's potential significant offensive upside between the two, but I imagine the defense difference can't be that great. 

I still imagine it'll cost one of Shoemaker or Skaggs, and likely a top prospect. You could maybe offer Bedrosian instead of a SP, or build a prospect heavy package around Meyer and our best prospects. Seeing as how the Pirates are shopping Harrison and have guys like Jaso and Watson who could be of benefit to us, if we were to go after McCutchen, I'd try and work at least another one of those guys into what we receive too. 

Either way you turn Maybin into an expensive 4th OF who isn't great defensively and doesn't have a good arm, or trade bait. At $9m he's either a tremendous waste of value in that role, and he doesn't look to bring much back in a trade. Or you turn Calhoun into trade bait to make room for McCutchen, so either Maybin or McCutchen slots into RF, where neither of them seem like an ideal fit.

We'd have to move so many players and production laterally while losing prospects and adding salary it just doesn't make sense. 

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Defensively? I know there's potential significant offensive upside between the two, but I imagine the defense difference can't be that great. 

Right, my initial point is he lost value because he wasn't a great center fielder, but not great center fielders can and usually are really good left fielders.  Also he is still a really good, just not top 5 offensive player.  Two years at $14 a year is a very good risk to take on a guy who is 30 that is one year removed from being a 144 OPS+ guy.  

[totdprods]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Right, my initial point is he lost value because he wasn't a great center fielder, but not great center fielders can and usually are really good left fielders.  Also he is still a really good, just not top 5 offensive player.  Two years at $14 a year is a very good risk to take on a guy who is 30 that is one year removed from being a 144 OPS+ guy.  

Oh absolutely, no doubt there. If we hadn't acquired Maybin already and the SP FA depth was a little deeper to work with (to make up for whatever pitching we'd deal to Pittsburgh) I would be all over it.

[totdprods]

I think there would be better targets out there for what we'd have to give up for McCutchen. 

[totdprods]

It sounds as if the Nationals are making a very strong push for McCutchen, and there's a chance they try to acquire him today. If they do that, Trea Turner would move back to the infield, and Danny Espinosa becomes a non-tender candidate, and a possible option for us at 2B.

[Stradling]

You are probably right as it relates to the needs of the team, but I highly doubt there is a player available with his upside.  

[nikkachez]

Ha! If they trade Robles and/or Lopez or a Ross for McCutchen, I would laugh until Spring Training. 

 

I love McCuthchen and he was one of my favorite non-Angels the past number of years, but I'm not so confident in his abilities anymore. Pittsburgh could easily win this trade. 

[HaloCory22]

Cutch reminds me of Matt Kemp. Defense starts going to shit. Offense going down. 

[Troll Daddy]

It's amazing how a players value drops so fast after one disappointing season. Most your HOF players had some off years. 

[Robrock30]

The Pirates and Nationals have ramped up discussions about a trade that would send Andrew McCutchen to Washington, according to sources who have spoken with both teams. The Nationals, according to one exec, would like to make this deal today, because the ripple effect of trading for McCutchen would likely be a move to nontender shortstop Danny Espinosa before tomorrow's tender date. The Nationals have been looking for a center fielder. So if they can trade for McCutchen, he would play center, which would bounce Trea Turner to short and leave no spot for Espinosa. The Pirates are looking for controllable starting pitching. So names like Joe Ross and Reynaldo Lopez would fit that shopping list.

Jayson Stark, ESPN Senior Writer

[Inside Pitch]

21 hours ago, Hubs said:

McCutchen has had one bad (really just ok) year offensively. His BABIP dropped and his strikeouts went up. He could rebound to be a phenomenal bat and top 5 player again. I don't watch many Pirates games but maybe he has an issue with his swing, being a little late on balls he used to knock to the OF. 

From 2012-2015 he was around a +157 OPS. If there is any chance he could be that guy again, and they include Harrison, I'd trade Cron, Skaggs and Top Prospects Thaiss, Ward and Jones for him. Maybe it wouldn't take all three, but I'd consider that a win.

Cutch has seen a three year drop across the board in defensive metrics and has told anyone willing to listen that he is unwilling to move off of CF.  His K rate has gone up for three straight years.  His hard hit ball profile has dropped in three straight seasons.  His average on FBs has dropped in three straight seasons.  His walk rate dropped significantly from the year before and his SB numbers have dropped to where he's really not considered a threat on the bases.   Yes, it's only one bad year -- and he's actually had a similar season 4 years ago that he rebounded from but all those other predictive stats have been moving in the wrong direction for three years.   This is what decline looks like.

Trading for Cutch isn't a need.   Adding pitching is.   Your proposal takes away from the pitching, gives away 4 years of control for both Cron and Skaggs, and potentially 6 years of control for each of Thaiss, Ward and Jones.  I know Harrison is a known name and to his credit he can pick it but he's also been a low OBP, high K, 91 OPS+ hitter the last two years and is owed 17 M.   Johnny Giavotella put up an OPS+ of 90 the last two seasons while making the minimum.   Harrison has two option years for 10M each season so, at least there is the potential for club control beyond 2018, but barring a reversal in performance it's unlikely he'd be worth picking up those option years.

I'd rather enter 2017 with a black hole at 2B than make a trade like this.

[DMVol]

44 minutes ago, totdprods said:

It sounds as if the Nationals are making a very strong push for McCutchen, and there's a chance they try to acquire him today. If they do that, Trea Turner would move back to the infield, and Danny Espinosa becomes a non-tender candidate, and a possible option for us at 2B.

Espinosa has some 2b experience...and he is a switch hitter but seems to have better success as a RH hitter against LH pitching....

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=espinda01&year=Career&t=b

[Inside Pitch]

17 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

It's amazing how a players value drops so fast after one disappointing season. Most your HOF players had some off years. 

Ignoring a slide in performance over the course of several seasons is how teams end up signing guys to 10 year 240 mil contracts.  It is only one year -- but the underlying predictive stats are showing a decline.   As I said in my previous post -- he's had a season like this before, so it's not unreasonable to believe it may have just been a blip and he will rebound -- but the Angels lack the organizational capital to take on those sorts of risks IMO.

[bloodbrother]

1. Angels don't have the resources the Pirates would want to acquire Cutch

2. Assuming they did, it doesn't make much sense for them to trade what little they have for an OFer when they are pretty set for 2017 in that regard and have other, more glaring holes(rotation and bullpen and 2B)

[Tank]

6 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Trading for Cutch isn't a need.   Adding pitching is.  

and that's all that needs to be said about this.

[Brent Maguire]

I would assume the Buccos are interested in the wealth of starting pitching the Nats possess. With a Meadows-Marte-Polanco outfield looming and Bell as an option, I don't see the Pirates targeting Victor Robles. I would guess something centered around Giolito/Ross, Treinen/Glover, and other prospects would get the dice rolling for Pitt. 

[ScruffytheJanitor]

2 hours ago, Angels_Baseball said:

I would assume the Buccos are interested in the wealth of starting pitching the Nats possess. With a Meadows-Marte-Polanco outfield looming and Bell as an option, I don't see the Pirates targeting Victor Robles. I would guess something centered around Giolito/Ross, Treinen/Glover, and other prospects would get the dice rolling for Pitt. 

Funny enough, they actually asked for Robles last year when the Nats were sniffing around Cutch. 

[ettin]

So it was nothing more than a pipe dream believing the Angels could add McCutchen, we just don't have the ammunition in top prospects and as IP said it isn't a need for us (particularly when Calhoun is putting up equivalent production to what McCutchen did last year).

I have a strong suspicion the Pirates can get both Robles and Lopez in this deal if the Nationals are willing.

[Brent Maguire]

1 hour ago, ScruffytheJanitor said:

Funny enough, they actually asked for Robles last year when the Nats were sniffing around Cutch. 

I thought Robles was older and more advanced than I had thought so he actually makes sense for them. Dude has crazy amounts of tools but is still ways away from reaching the majors.