Angels Claim Abel De Los Santos, DFA Oberholtzer

[totdprods]

@AngelsLakersFan and at first I thought it was a crazy idea too, but it's really grown on me. The bullpen is so volatile and unpredictable that it would be a shame if by the time our offense and rotation came around at the same time we still had no solution for the pen. I don't think it's so far-fetched we could have a good offense and a good rotation by 2018 with what we already have in-house, but the pen remains a question mark, even with the promise Bedrosian, Ramirez, Guerra, Alcantara, and Middleton. Chapman or Jansen would be a huge anchor.

[Brent Maguire]

From the limited information I could find on De Los Santos, he's at least a worthwhile guy to take a flier on. He throws in the 91-94 mph range and touches 96-97. Average curveball, decent change up. Before 2016, he was a strike thrower but his command really struggled at times this year. Fly ball heavy which works to his benefit in Anaheim. I now fully expect him to be DFA'd multiple times throughout the offseason. 

[totdprods]

26 minutes ago, Angels_Baseball said:

From the limited information I could find on De Los Santos, he's at least a worthwhile guy to take a flier on. He throws in the 91-94 mph range and touches 96-97. Average curveball, decent change up. Before 2016, he was a strike thrower but his command really struggled at times this year. Fly ball heavy which works to his benefit in Anaheim. I now fully expect him to be DFA'd multiple times throughout the offseason. 

I think he's the first of many guys this offseason that Eppler is going to claim, and then DFA soon after in hopes of slipping them into SLC without being on the 40-man.

[ettin]

4 hours ago, totdprods said:

That's why I keep coming back to the idea of signing Chapman or Jansen if we feel like making a big purchase. Yes, it's likely they'll sign elsewhere, and there is always a risk signing a big FA, especially a reliever, but both of those guys are about as close to a sure-thing elite reliever you could ever possibly hope to obtain. It would be awesome if any of the Bedrosian, Meyer, Alcantara, or Middleton crew become elite relievers as well, and they all have the potential, but how long should we wait for that? If one or two of them develop that way alongside Chapman, then it just makes our pen that much more formidable. 

As I have been writing the Primer series it has been my growing conclusion that Alex Meyer will very likely never be in the rotation and was meant as a potential high leverage bullpen piece from the start of the trade.

Street, who had serious BABIP issues last year, combined with Bedrosian and Meyer should provide a good foundation in 2017. Middle of the year I suspect Middleton will enter the picture too. Alcantara worries me as his control issues continue to be an issue which reminds me of someone like Carlos Marmol who had an arm but was all over the place at times.

I like, as Doc and you have suggested previously, the idea of signing Jansen if Eppler decides to burn a 2nd round draft pick.

[totdprods]

50 minutes ago, ettin said:

As I have been writing the Primer series it has been my growing conclusion that Alex Meyer will very likely never be in the rotation and was meant as a potential high leverage bullpen piece from the start of the trade.

Street, who had serious BABIP issues last year, combined with Bedrosian and Meyer should provide a good foundation in 2017. Middle of the year I suspect Middleton will enter the picture too. Alcantara worries me as his control issues continue to be an issue which reminds me of someone like Carlos Marmol who had an arm but was all over the place at times.

I like, as Doc and you have suggested previously, the idea of signing Jansen if Eppler decides to burn a 2nd round draft pick.

Yeah, I feel like if we are going to burn that pick, it damn well be for someone who is going to make an impact. Jeremy Hellickson? No way. Yoenis Cespedes? Maybe, but as has been brought up numerously, there are many cheaper options that may be extremely productive without costing 125-150m. Kenley Jansen? Massive improvement to the pen, one of our weakest links for a long time, and one of the hardest parts for a club to build successfully internally.

Use 2017 to sort out Meyer, Banuelos, and other various waiver claim SPs and cheap RPs and prospects with Jansen, Bedrosian, and Street holding down the back-end  and hope by 2018 the rotation has stablized, the lineup remains strong, and the clean peanuts have been rooted out after '17 to accompany the core of a good pen is already in place.

[Lou]

22 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

My favorite is when they're only down by 2 runs and the pen comes in and makes it a laugher. I just get so happy.

And then the offense scores 2 runs.

I'm in love with that 

[disarcina]

how dumb do the Dodgers look now for passing on that Chapman deal they had completed?

I thought they reacted too soon when they did that and thought -- at that time -- they made a mistake.

The Yankees signed him and he performed well for them and then, at deadline time, the Yankees get FOUR quality prospects for a Chapman lease to the Cubs - that's a trade that's going to turn out pretty well for both clubs -- perhaps -- because Chapman has clearly led the Cubs into and in the post-season -- but taking the long view -- those players the Cubs gave up are going to be quality players under Yankee club control for some time.

Meanwhile Chapman walks as a F/A.   I would think the Dodgers re-sign Jensen.

[disarcina]

I don't see us getting Chapman -- that would be quite a splash and a lot of money spent for 2017/18 seasons which probably doesn't fit into the Angels time-table.

 

[totdprods]

12 hours ago, disarcina said:

I don't see us getting Chapman -- that would be quite a splash and a lot of money spent for 2017/18 seasons which probably doesn't fit into the Angels time-table.

I agree that 2017 still has a chance at being a pretty rough year, but we certainly fall within the realm of possibility of competing still, and I think by 2018 we will definitely be back in the picture. We will have SPs returning, much more payroll flexibility, and opportunity to have rebuilt the minors (to a degree) through draft and post-Baldoquin international free agents.

We've got an easy $60m annually coming off the books between this offseason and next, so I think there's a good chance we see one 'big splash' type signing in this timeframe. Of the options this offseason, Cespedes (probably $25m AAV) or Jansen/Chapman ($15m-$20m? AAV) are the only ones who I think would mark a vast improvement and would be worth shelling out that amount of dough for. Personally, I think our offense is solid enough that it doesn't require another $25m AAV player over 5 years. LF certainly needs improvement, but not at that cost. Our pitching is where we really need help, and I don't see a single FA SP who is almost certain to make a guaranteed positive impact this year, but I do see two dominant FA RPs in Chapman or Jansen. Yeah, we'd probably be buying them a year early, but relief arms as dominant as these two aren't hitting FA next season, with exception of Wade Davis, but I feel wary on him.

The pen is the hardest part of a team to have a successful blueprint for. We can look at our offense and rotation, and see who will make that up and who projects where over the next few years, but bullpens never have that level of projection or certainty. Signing one of the elite CPs gives us at least some level of certainty to bank on for when the rotation coalesces. If guys like Bedrosian, Meyer, Alcantara, and Middleton can develop into those elite arms along the way, it's an added bonus. 

Treat 2017 as an audition year for waiver claims and bargain-level FA RPs, first MLB experience for Middleton and Alcantara, and opportunity for Ramirez, Guerra, and Valdez to show consistent succes. Chapman/Jansen in the 9th, Street in the 8th, and Bedrosian in the 7th or high-leverage situations should provide enough at the back-end that, should we compete in 2017, we'll have a good 'pen on paper at least. 

By 2017, we'll hopefully have Heaney and Trop back and some clarity in the rotation. We'll also have enough money off the books that we could very well pursue a FA SP from a very strong class. That $5m-ish AAV difference between Chapman/Jansen and Cespedes in '17 may become extremely critical here. I have a feeling Meyer gets bumped from the rotation by this point, fills the void that Street left, and now you've got a stocked rotation, a back-end bullpen featuring Chapman/Jansen, Bedrosian, Meyer, and whomever found success from the revolving door of '17. Good line-up, good rotation, good pen.

One of the other big advantages to this, is that should we become competitive again, it lessens the need to acquire an elite pen arm midseason, which as we've seen now in the Miller and two Chapman trades, is extraordinarily high. If we're competitive in '18 but our pen sucks because we banked on waiver claims and failed SPs like Meyer to turn into elite arms, how are we going to boost our pen midseason? Trading from our razor-thin farm for a volatile asset like a reliever? I actually think I'd rather just risk $20m AAV than see us move Thaiss or Jones for Zach Britton at the 2018 deadline, or trade organizational depth for even riskier pen arms. By that same token, should we blow chunks over the next two years, Chapman/Jansen may still retain enough valeu (even with their salary) to pull back something of interest. Much like Simmons, it would be addressing a need in advance.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

On 10/28/2016 at 2:11 PM, Homebrewer said:

That's a huge assumption in itself. Especially after what we witnessed this year. The win now thing has depleted the minor leagues to the point of being recognized by all of baseball as one of, if not the, worst in MLB. Injuries are going to happen,

We can get the pieces we need to compete next year while keeping the minors intact. We have very little in the minors to trade anyway. we need to get the majority of what we need through the FA. We don't necessarily need top FA either just better than what we had last year.

[Billy_Ball]

Season over.

 

[greginpsca]

This system of claiming guys is how we ended up with a bullpen including Weber, Donnelly, Levine.

[totdprods]

7 hours ago, Billy_Ball said:

Season over.

 

I know Obie stunk it up, but he's had a lot potential and he's had periods of success. He is a great arm to be able to stash in AAA without eating up a 40-man spot. 

[arch stanton]

13 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I know Obie stunk it up, but he's had a lot potential and he's had periods of success. He is a great arm to be able to stash in AAA without eating up a 40-man spot. 

I watched him pitch several times and I take offense to using the term "great arm" in any sentence written about him. His lack of command and stuff combined with his emotional frailty makes him a bad pitcher.

[totdprods]

He's AAA depth now, no longer taking up a roster spot. Sucked as he did, he's still a former top prospect, a lefty, and has more potential than Yunesky Maya or whomever he boots from the AAA pen or rotation. 

[Angel Oracle]

DeLosSantos = further proof of Eppler's desire to have mainly relievers with great stuff in the pen, and very few if any that are finesse guys.  

It does seem that the Ueharas and Streets are becoming fewer and farther in between in MLB.