Garrett Richards clears final hurdle, avoids T.J. surgery.

[Second Base]

Getting a healthy Richards back in 2017 is the equivalent of signing an ace in free agency. It's hard not to be giddy at this point.

We're a Skaggs or Meyer breakout and Nolasco repeat away from being a dangerous team, even without Heaney and Tropeano.

[Glen]

An Angels player progressing as hoped for after an injury?  That's unpossible!

[Docwaukee]

7 hours ago, mulwin444 said:

I think you have a foundation with Street, Bedrosian, Ramirez and Guerra...Street could be done, true, but its possible he has at least one more year in him.  If not, Bedrosian has the stuff to be dominant closer.  Cam had a 11.4 K/9 and, while still a tad wild at 3.1 BB/9, had a nice 1.091 WHIP and 358 ERA+...if recovered from the blood clots in his pitching arm, he's your main building block.  In terms of the scrap heap pickups, Ramirez was a solid find by Eppler.  With his upper-90's fastball, Ramirez managed to amass 2.91 ERA 1.187 WHIP and 137 ERA+ in 43 games but only had a 6 K/9, leaving a bit of doubt of his potential but he still could be an effective 7th inning guy.  Guerra almost had the same numbers as Ramirez but doesn't have his stuff but seems to be a decent middle relief option.  

not convinced about the pen at all.  Guerra and Ramirez don't instill one bit of confidence.  Bedrock is dominant.  Street is done.  Morin is terrible.  You've got a couple of minor league options, but we've all seen how that typically works.  Growing pains suck for even the best arms.  If Ramirez and Guerra are #'s 5 and 6 then fine.  

Chacin actually had some solid peripherals out of the pen.  Ege was decent in a small sample, and Alvarez is actually ok but I think he suffered from exposure issues.  He terrible vs. rhers.  

Ramirez stuff is good.  He's the one guy that could take it to the next level.  Guerra has a nice change and a mediocre fastball.   They need a dominant closer and another solid reliable 7th or 8th inning guy.  

A rotation of Richards, Skaggs, Meyer, Nolasco and Shoe is actually fairly talented.  But innings will be an issue.  

Which is why having both a deep and good pen is paramount.  Not just some piecemeal collection of retreads that we hope can be mediocre.  I am talking about a dominant pen.  It's the only part of a team that can go from awful (which they were this year) to very good in one off season.  So if we are going to spend this winter, I would spend on the pen, and then spend again.  

Jansen would be priority #1.  But I could see them taking a flyer on Greg Holland instead.  The problem is that after the closer market, the FA pool drops off drastically.  I am sure eppler will collect a bunch of guys off the scrap heap and at least one of them will work out. 

Overall though, I see us doing what we have done with the pen the last few years.  Using april and may as a tryout.  

[mulwin444]

35 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

not convinced about the pen at all.  Guerra and Ramirez don't instill one bit of confidence.  Bedrock is dominant.  Street is done.  Morin is terrible.  You've got a couple of minor league options, but we've all seen how that typically works.  Growing pains suck for even the best arms.  If Ramirez and Guerra are #'s 5 and 6 then fine.  

Chacin actually had some solid peripherals out of the pen.  Ege was decent in a small sample, and Alvarez is actually ok but I think he suffered from exposure issues.  He terrible vs. rhers.  

Ramirez stuff is good.  He's the one guy that could take it to the next level.  Guerra has a nice change and a mediocre fastball.   They need a dominant closer and another solid reliable 7th or 8th inning guy.  

A rotation of Richards, Skaggs, Meyer, Nolasco and Shoe is actually fairly talented.  But innings will be an issue.  

Which is why having both a deep and good pen is paramount.  Not just some piecemeal collection of retreads that we hope can be mediocre.  I am talking about a dominant pen.  It's the only part of a team that can go from awful (which they were this year) to very good in one off season.  So if we are going to spend this winter, I would spend on the pen, and then spend again.  

Jansen would be priority #1.  But I could see them taking a flyer on Greg Holland instead.  The problem is that after the closer market, the FA pool drops off drastically.  I am sure eppler will collect a bunch of guys off the scrap heap and at least one of them will work out. 

Overall though, I see us doing what we have done with the pen the last few years.  Using april and may as a tryout.  

Back end BP guys are exactly what I think Ramirez and Guerra are at this ppint with Ramirez potential as a break out candidate.  If Bedrosian is healthy, we need two dominant arms, one of which can hopefully come from either Jansen or Chapman but you're probably right in that Eppler is most likely going after the Holland or Bailey types.  I think there is potential in turning the BP around fast if the right moves are made.

[Oz27]

2 hours ago, Dochalo said:

not convinced about the pen at all.  Guerra and Ramirez don't instill one bit of confidence.  Bedrock is dominant.  Street is done.  Morin is terrible.  You've got a couple of minor league options, but we've all seen how that typically works.  Growing pains suck for even the best arms.  If Ramirez and Guerra are #'s 5 and 6 then fine.  

Chacin actually had some solid peripherals out of the pen.  Ege was decent in a small sample, and Alvarez is actually ok but I think he suffered from exposure issues.  He terrible vs. rhers.  

Ramirez stuff is good.  He's the one guy that could take it to the next level.  Guerra has a nice change and a mediocre fastball.   They need a dominant closer and another solid reliable 7th or 8th inning guy.  

A rotation of Richards, Skaggs, Meyer, Nolasco and Shoe is actually fairly talented.  But innings will be an issue.  

Which is why having both a deep and good pen is paramount.  Not just some piecemeal collection of retreads that we hope can be mediocre.  I am talking about a dominant pen.  It's the only part of a team that can go from awful (which they were this year) to very good in one off season.  So if we are going to spend this winter, I would spend on the pen, and then spend again.  

Jansen would be priority #1.  But I could see them taking a flyer on Greg Holland instead.  The problem is that after the closer market, the FA pool drops off drastically.  I am sure eppler will collect a bunch of guys off the scrap heap and at least one of them will work out. 

Overall though, I see us doing what we have done with the pen the last few years.  Using april and may as a tryout.  

I strongly agree with this summary. I'm a big believer in Bedrosian. I hope to see Chacin back in a relief role, I could see him becoming really good at that actually. But I don't buy Guerra or Ramirez as anything other than decent middle relievers and, as you say, it would be silly to expect anything useful from Street or Morin. We're extremely short on talented relievers and, while there are a couple of guys in the minors who we could see in the 'pen for part or all of next year, we're going to need to look at established external options to have any hope of having a decent bullpen.

I expect Jansen will end up signing a pretty insane contract and I would probably prefer the Angels stay away from that. Greg Holland is an intriguing option, but it is painful just imagining the amount of 'Madson/Burnett 2.0' posts his signing would lead to.

[ScruffytheJanitor]

5 hours ago, Oz27 said:

I strongly agree with this summary. I'm a big believer in Bedrosian. I hope to see Chacin back in a relief role, I could see him becoming really good at that actually. But I don't buy Guerra or Ramirez as anything other than decent middle relievers and, as you say, it would be silly to expect anything useful from Street or Morin. We're extremely short on talented relievers and, while there are a couple of guys in the minors who we could see in the 'pen for part or all of next year, we're going to need to look at established external options to have any hope of having a decent bullpen.

I expect Jansen will end up signing a pretty insane contract and I would probably prefer the Angels stay away from that. Greg Holland is an intriguing option, but it is painful just imagining the amount of 'Madson/Burnett 2.0' posts his signing would lead to.

Jansen will get a crazy contract. For me, the best path forward for this team is pretty simple:

1) Significant upgrade either in LF or 2B, with a "moderate" upgrade at the other position. (Please note: "above average" is a significant upgrade) 

2) One more, according-to-hoyle Mid-Rotation starter or better (this is the hardest thing on the list, obviously)

3) Bullpen: We need to sign/add a couple of pieces here. Bullpens have so much variation that I'd love to see us sign a solid veteran along with a couple of flyers. Guerra and Ramierez need to repeat what they did last year before they can be counted on.  

4) Bench: I don't hate our bench options (Marte and Bandy are a decent start) but I'd love one more piece.

 

[Jay]

11 hours ago, ettin said:

I am beginning to wonder why MLB teams aren't looking into regular stem cell therapy as a preventative measure for UCL tears. There may be medical side effects or risks involved with the procedure I may not be aware of but if a pitcher did this once a year would it have a negative impact at all? Seems like it could potentially keep a UCL whole?

Just a thought I could be completely wrong but it passed through my wee brain a few weeks ago.

Not sure I would advocate regular injections that does sound a bit PED-ish...

But as an alternative to surgery the treatment is obviously promising.

Great news.

[Docwaukee]

14 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

That was the discussion when Bartolo Colon first did it. When guys start regularly injecting themselves with stem cells you have to start asking where exactly the line is drawn.

the line is whether it's part of a medically necessary treatment and that treatment fits within a community/national standard.  Anything that is considered a PED could be prescribed to any professional athlete if there is documented indications.  

Obtaining a drug illegally and using it for what is not considered an accepted purpose is the problem.  

I am sure there are plenty of professional athletes that are able to take things on the banned substance list because they have a medical condition that justifies it.  

[beatlesrule]

12 hours ago, Glen said:

An Angels player progressing as hoped for after an injury?  That's unpossible!

Keep the faith Ralph.

[Angels#1Fan]

14 hours ago, Lou said:

I'm pretty sure nobody has stated that those 55 pitches is definitive proof he's ready to pitch a full season.

The title of the thread is "Richards clears final hurdle"!

I'm just saying that the hurdles in front of Richards are yet to be "cleared" and caution should be exercised otherwise people are going to set themselves up for possible disappointment if Richards can't make it through the season.

It's great that he's showing improvement but there is a long way to go imo.

[Taylor]

15 hours ago, Angels#1Fan said:

It's great that Richards threw 55 pitches and was effective, but that doesn't equate to a season, hell 55 pitches is equal to about 5 innings.

Or two innings if your name is C.J. Wilson or Hector Santiago.

[Richard]

47 minutes ago, Angels#1Fan said:

The title of the thread is "Richards clears final hurdle"!

..avoids T.J. surgery. I wasn't implying lock for 200 ip, or 15+ wins in 2017. The "clears final hurdle" was the final step the Angels set in Garrett avoiding T.J. surgery and having a chance to pitch in 2017.

Let's just take the good news that Garrett went from possibly being non-tendered to having a shot to contribute next season.

[Lou]

1 hour ago, Angels#1Fan said:

The title of the thread is "Richards clears final hurdle"!

I'm just saying that the hurdles in front of Richards are yet to be "cleared" and caution should be exercised otherwise people are going to set themselves up for possible disappointment if Richards can't make it through the season.

It's great that he's showing improvement but there is a long way to go imo.

pretty sure he just meant he isn't going to need surgery, not that's he's it was proof he'll be healthy all year 

 

[Lou]

or what Richard said 

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

the line is whether it's part of a medically necessary treatment and that treatment fits within a community/national standard.  Anything that is considered a PED could be prescribed to any professional athlete if there is documented indications.  

Obtaining a drug illegally and using it for what is not considered an accepted purpose is the problem.  

I am sure there are plenty of professional athletes that are able to take things on the banned substance list because they have a medical condition that justifies it.  

What is defined as 'medically necessary?' It wouldn't be hard to show that a pitcher has deterioration of his UCL. I'm not sure how a stem cell injection at the end of the season is any different than going in and removing bone spurs. 

Also I'm sure that players with the Aderral exemption are receiving far more benefit from the drug than the detriment they would face were they not allowed to use it. Should we be questioning the link between Adrian Beltre's rise to unquestioned HoFer following his testosterone exemption?

Not to judge either way, but simply to argue that I don't see a cut and dry distinction. 

 

[Second Base]

Street - Wait and see. He doesn't need to overpower you to be successful.

Bedrock - You build around an elite arm like that.

Ramirez - Has my full confidence. This guy can shorten a game.

Guerra - Meh. 

Alvarez - Nope.

Morin - Nope.

Spare Parts (Ege, Achter, etc) - Nope.

So best case scenario, we have 4 solid RP and need two more. Worst case, we have two and need four more. Likely case, we're steady at three, but could also use three more.

I think Bailey is coming back, so two more. I also think Neftali Feliz would be a thrifty move. 

Also in the minors, Middleton, Alcantara, Paredes, and Grendall all have upside. Not sure I'd put it all on them, but if one of them breaks out, we should be in decent shape.

Overall, I'm not worried about the pen as much as I am the defense, but it is worth solidifying.

[Angel Oracle]

I like the Feliz idea, a younger version of Grilli potentially.

Street (if healthy), Bedrosian, Feliz, Bailey, Ramirez, Ege, and one of the aforementioned youngsters could be an intriguing pen.  

Or they could have two of the youngsters and not Ege, and forgo having a lefty.   The 2002 pen succeeded despite only having the mediocre Schoeneweis as a lefty.

All but Street and Ege can hit mid 90s.   Street brings much needed experience/savvy.

D. Guerra has DDLR (one year wonder) written all over him, and slumped in September while Ramirez was pitching well.

Valdez screams Ryne Duren, too wild.

Meyer is an obvious possibility, if he can't stay as a starter.

[ten ocho recon scout]

On 10/13/2016 at 2:41 PM, Tank said:

never thought i'd be so happy to see someone recover from dehydration so quickly.

The news is gonna leave us all a little dehydrated...

[ettin]

On 10/13/2016 at 7:30 PM, AngelsLakersFan said:

That was the discussion when Bartolo Colon first did it. When guys start regularly injecting themselves with stem cells you have to start asking where exactly the line is drawn.

Ahh yes you are correct about that delineation they were trying to make back then. However I don't think they ever made stem cell therapy a PED like offense. I think the reason teams haven't done it yet as a preventative/maintenance type measure is because it may look strange on a medical record if you are trying to trade that player. That is why I think making it a yearly offseason procedure wouldn't be a totally crazy thing for player careers if it is proven to work in that capacity. However I don't think anyone has considered this much less studied it in an official medical study of any sort.

[nate]

Now Richards can get his big raise through arbitration and then get the surgery.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, nate said:

Now Richards can get his big raise through arbitration and then get the surgery.

He was getting the huge raise regardless. 

[nate]

Just now, Stradling said:

He was getting the huge raise regardless. 

Hard to argue for huge $ when you are out for the entire season.  He will get paid a lot more if he is pitching.  That is the only reason he did PRP and stem cell treatment.

[Stradling]

So the only reason he opted not to get surgery is so he'd get paid, and not because he's a competitor that wants to play?  The only way he wasn't getting a raise was if he was released.  

[mulwin444]

1 hour ago, nate said:

That is the only reason he did PRP and stem cell treatment.

Heaney and Tropeano didn't have that option based on the severity of the injury so it sounds like Richards went with the  available option that would get him to equivalent health and back on the field faster.  Doesn't sound like money was the only reason he opted for it...he opted for it because it was option in lieu of surgery.

[ettin]

5 hours ago, nate said:

Now Richards can get his big raise through arbitration and then get the surgery.

Actually he's projected to receive about $7MM in arbitration since he spent most of the season on the sidelines. If he had pitched the entire season he'd be looking at something over $10MM.