Like this and then, again, Don't like what it probably means

[disarcina]

Jered Weaver starting October 2.  Final appearance of the season. OK.

Jered Weaver starting Sunday, October 2 -- SWAN SONG Appearance of his Halos' career.

I think Weaver had a good 2016 season as a very serviceable number three/ perhaps four rotation guy.

Some inconsistencies in starts to be sure -- but overall better than most reasonable priced alternatives.

Weaver gave the Halos a hometown discount some what? six years ago now when his value was at the highest. He has performed his end of the deal well.

I would hope the Halos will be bringing Jered back in 2017 perhaps a one year plus one year club option deal with incentives.

Look, the Halos aren't going any place in 2017 and perhaps not in 2018 either.  A one year deal would not necessarily be paying for 'past performance' although, that would clearly be a consideration for all he's done for the franchise.

Bottom line, though, is -- Weaver has 13/14 wins this season -- as a number 4/5 rotation guy next year - he's a lot better than some of the altervative inning eaters we could sign (we're not going to pay for a top quality F/A starter) during the off-season.

Anyway, it this is it for Weaver, I'm sure he'll get a Standing O from Halos fans when he leaves the mound for the last time -- I hope he's pitching a shutout.

Sort of bittersweet -- Fan Appreciation Day and all (nothing like the prizes they used to give out) but on a hot afternoon meaningless game in Anaheim competing against NFL Sunday activities -- probably going to be about 20,000 in the stand when Weaver steps off the Anaheim field for the last time (maybe - likely).

[Troutstanding]

2016: 12-12 5.06 ERA 178 IP 5.62 FIP 1.46 WHIP
 

I am a Jered Weaver fan and think his extension and career as a Angel were great things but any amount the Angels pay above the league minimum for that production next year is a waste. 

[disarcina]

Now it's being reported that it's about 50/50 that Weaver starts Sunday -- still having some relatively minor health issues but enough to potentially scratch his Sunday start -- probably a game time decision and may mean its a short appearance/ bullpen game on a true 'get away' day.  Hope Weaver can make the start. Would like to see him back in a Halos' uni in 2017 but it's unlikely -- if he chooses NOT to retire -- some team will sign him for 2017 -- he can be a serviceable starter for some MLB team.

If MLB wants to deal with the 'pace of the game' issues -- all they need to do is watch tapes of tomorrow's games -- should be some of the quickest moving and shortest games of the year. 

I am pretty sure the umps expand the strike zone significantly on the final game of the year when it's no contender team playing no contender team.

 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

37 minutes ago, disarcina said:

Look, the Halos aren't going any place in 2017 and perhaps not in 2018 either.  A one year deal would not necessarily be paying for 'past performance' although, that would clearly be a consideration for all he's done for the franchise.

I think you're wrong about next year, Richards expects to be back and ready to go come spring training. The same thing goes for Skaggs, we will have a better idea about him after his start today. Shoemaker says he will be ready also, some have concerns about him being apprehensive on the mound after being struck on the head, we will have wait and see. Nolasco has pitched pretty well since coming over to the Angels and I think Meyer is going to be the real prize in the Santiago deal. I also want to bring back Weaver, I changed my mind about him after his last few starts. That's 6 starters and we also have Chacin, who has pitched OK out of the pen and could make spot starts.

So we need to pick up a serviceable LF and 2B in the off season. If Cowart can get over himself with a bat in winter league, he may be able to win a job in spring training even if it's only a utility infielder. Pujols said he wants to play 1B next year and not DH as much. I think our offense could be able to compete, and if Cowart plays 2B our defense could be solid, with the exception of Escobar at 3B and Marte in LF. Maybe with more practice Marte could improve his defense in LF or we can sign a FA in the off season.

Anyway I not throwing in the towel on next season before this season is even over, and certainly not on the 2018 season. 

[stormngt]

1 hour ago, disarcina said:

Je 

Some inconsistencies in starts to be sure -- but overall better than most reasonable priced alternatives.

Weaver gave the Halos a hometown discount some what? six years ago now when his value was at the highest. He has performed his end of the deal well.

I would hope the Halos will be bringing Jered back in 2017 perhaps a one year  

Look, the Halos aren't going any place in 2017 and perhaps not in 2018 either.  A one year deal would not necessarily be paying for 'past performance' although, that would clearly be a consideration for all he's done for the franchise.

Bottom line, though, is -- Weaver has 13/14 wins this season -- as a number 4/5 rotation guy next year - he's a lot better than some of the altervative inning eaters we could sign (we're not going to pay for a top quality F/A starter) during the off-season.

 

I was blasted as an idiot by many posters on this board for saying the same thing about three weeks ago.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

1 hour ago, disarcina said:

Bottom line, though, is -- Weaver has 13/14 wins this season -- as a number 4/5 rotation guy next year - he's a lot better than some of the altervative inning eaters we could sign (we're not going to pay for a top quality F/A starter) during the off-season.

Weaver is 12-12, with a 5+ ERA. If he wins tomorrow he could have 13 wins but no guarantee, certainly not 14 wins.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

2 minutes ago, stormngt said:

I was blasted as an idiot by many posters on this board for saying the same thing about three weeks ago.

He has pitched much better over his last few starts and I have started to be OK bringing him back for 1 more season in order to add some depth to the rotation. If Richards and Skaggs both are ready to go come spring, we could have a decent rotation next season.

[stormngt]

1 minute ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

He has pitched much better over his last few starts and I have started to be OK bringing him back for 1 more season in order to add some depth to the rotation. If Richards and Skaggs both are ready to go come spring, we could have a decent rotation next season.

To be honest, I was advocating bringing him back as a possible 5/bull pen piece with an incentive laced deal.  If everything goes well with Richards, Skaggs, Shoemaker, Nolasco, and Myer, Weaver wouldn't be needed.  However, when was the last time everything went well with the Angels?

[disarcina]

I don't mind getting blasted if folks feel differently --fair game - I think some of Weaver's early season starts and performances raised some huge question marks about whether his days as an MLB starter were over -- but during the second half he's had some good starts -- and YES has been inconsistent as well with some real STINKER starts sprinkled in there as well.

If he wins tomorrow (if he even pitches -- and I think if he does, it may be a very short stint -- so probably no win for him tomorrow unless the Angels take an early lead, Weav goes five and keeps his pitch count way down) it'll be win No. 13 on the season -- I know he was on track there a bit for a 14/15 win season but obviously not going to get there.

I just think he's worth a one plus one deal with incentives at this point -- others disagree -- that's fine.

As for next year -- like the optimism........that's great.  The reality is that the Texas Rangers -- rather quietly from all the MLB publicity standpoint -- went WIRE TO WIRE in the ALWest -- have wrapped up home field advantage in the playoffs and unless our front office has a major make over in style, substance and personnel (I guess it's possible -- but I don't see it happening) the Halos are NOT going to do what it takes during the off-season to improve some 20-25 games in the standings for 2017.

But, hope springs eternal -- that's why there's crowds of folks in Tempe and the rest of the Arizona ST sites in March..........

[tdawg87]

I have no problem bringing him back but he has to give the team another massive discount. He doesn't owe the Angels that, however.

At this point his production is easily replicated. 

[Brent Maguire]

Weaver has not been good this year. In fact, he's been one of the worst qualified starters in all of baseball. The only way I'm bringing Weaver back next year is if we get him on a minor league deal with an invite to Spring Training. If Richards, Skaggs or Shoemaker are struggling with injuries next spring, Weaver can be insurance. If the team has any intention on competing, however, they'll bring in another starter through free agency.

This is coming from a huge Jered Weaver fan too. But the guy has been in decline for 6 straight years now. I can't imagine how he'll look next year if he's throwing even slower. Let him end his Angels career with some dignity and not have to pull the plug on him in the middle of next season by releasing him because he has an ERA near 6 in June. 

[Oz27]

He was arguably the worst pitcher in baseball this year and produced one of the worst starting pitcher seasons ever. You can only argue in favor of bringing him back if you are blinded by sentiment or have not yet realized there are pitchers in the world outside of those on our current team. It's a horrible idea.

Also, "serviceable third starter"? Wow.

[mulwin444]

If he can get back to sitting between 87-88 mph on his fastball again, then, yeah, look to bring him back but you can get 5.00 ERA, 1.50 WHIP from a AAA player at league minimum.  Maybe a spring training invite in they're short on starting pitching

[IEAngelsfan]

Love Weaver, but as others have stated, he looks about done and getting one year older isn't going to help.  As Mulwin mentioned, I would not be opposed to a spring training invite in case things go wrong with other options, but that's the extent of it.

[Troll Daddy]

23 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

If he can get back to sitting between 87-88 mph on his fastball again, then, yeah, look to bring him back but you can get 5.00 ERA, 1.50 WHIP from a AAA player at league minimum.  Maybe a spring training invite in they're short on starting pitching

You're right but clearly not the same thing.

[mancini79]

His on field performance was bad this year, but he still has value in the clubhouse. The pitching rotation is young and Weav's gamer attitude could be contagious. I don't care what the cost would be to bring him back for 1 yr. It won't break the budget. Give him a 1 yr deal and focus on the offense and pen. It would also be nice to give Weav a farewell year for the fans.

[Oz27]

Some statistics for you...

Weaver has the worst xFIP in baseball among qualified pitchers this year. He has the second worst FIP. He has the second worst K/9. His 8.12 deserved run average is the worst in baseball for anyone who has thrown more than 25 innings and is historically bad.

Daniel Wright and Jhoulys Chacin are both terrible pitchers we picked out of the dumpster yet both are better options than Weaver going forward. If better pitchers can be found that easily, there is no justification for bringing him back. As it stands, Weaver is probably no better than the eighth best starter in the organization (UCL tear sufferers not included).

[Docwaukee]

Weaver is one of the top 5 starters in the history of the Angels.  Jered was great for this team and for the franchise.  Not one of more favorites, but I still like him a lot.  

It would have been interesting to see whether he'd have pitched as many innings this year had everyone else been healthy because he's really not very good anymore.  Sorry if he thinks that makes me a hater.   

I would rather bring back (or consider bringing back) Wilson.  

I also don't think Weaver is going to get an offer to start for any team next year.  

[disarcina]

well, reading these posts......Angels_Baseball's comment resonates the most with me.

I mean, I have stated/ repeated several times now that I think the Halos should offer Weaver an incentive laden deal for 2017 and I still feel that way.

But Angels_Baseball's post harkens back to watching Orel Hersheiser in his second 'come back' tour with the Dodgers which was a feel good story that last about a month plus into the season. I still remember watching on TV and hearing in Vin Scully's voice, Hersheiser's last MLB start/ game -- might have been against the SF Giants -- can't remember (he actually pitched for the Giants for about two seasons).......but Hersheiser obviously could get anyone out, his ERA was 15.00 or something ridiculous and he was just getting pounded. He went about two plus innings in that final start and was yanked.......he announced his retirement a few days later...........this is the type of thing Angels_Baseball thinks could happen with Jered Weaver if we bring him back -- and he may be right about that.......I'm willing to take that risk (but I don't think the Halos are going to offer him a contract in any event) but it would be one heck of a "I TOLD YOU SO" if he winds up like that Hersheiser example -- and it very well could..........there are other examples as well -- Steve Carlton ending his stellar career by hanging on too long and pitching poorly for about three or four different teams at the end of his career (I think Minnesota, the SF Giants and at least one other -- he was awful after being so dominating with St. Louis and Philadelphia)  Juan Marichal actually pitched for the LA Dodgers and went to spring training his last season (after he had pitched in Boston for about two seasons post his stellar SF Giants career)........that experiment lasted less than a month into the regular season and, once again, I can still remember Vin Scully commenting on the class Marichal displayed in announcing to the Dodgers and his then short term team-mates that he just didn't have it any more and was hanging 'em up. 

[Mark68]

He was not good this year. At all. He was better the last few starts, but still below average. If we hadn't had to try the Lincecum/Chacin/Oberholtzer experiments, he would have been *meh* as a 5th starter. He, unfortunately, was thrust into a 2nd/3rd starter role, for which he was wholly and utterly inadequate. 

That being said, this season has shown us that a team can never have enough starting pitching depth, so I'm OK if they bring him back for another season on a reasonable contract, but without any expectations.

[tennischmp]

I'd bring him back, not to pitch 

[tennischmp]

26 minutes ago, Mark68 said:

That being said, this season has shown us that a team can never had enough starting pitching depth, so I'm OK if they bring him back for another season on a reasonable contract, but without any expectations.

You are right GOOD starting pitching depth is never enough. If they bring Weaver back and have to use him for depth next year, their season will be as bad if not worse than this year

[Angel Oracle]

His past 7 starts have been #4 starter quality.

5 2/3 innings average, 3.63 ERA, 1.24 WHIP, 34 K's in 39.2 innings

Seems like his velocity is back to where it was in 2013/14, topping out at 86/87mph.

Give him one season with incentives, while Heaney and Tropeano recover.

[AngelStew43]

If the Angels plan to offer Weaver a contract, the most they can cut him is 20 percent.  Even if his contract is at 17 mil (AAV of 5/85)  it means that he could be cut to 13.4 million dollars on a one year deal. 

Is he worth that?  And would the Angels offer it?  Probably not on both counts.

 

[Stradling]

I highly doubt that is true