No support from the manager.

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

I'm not laughing.

Nor are you amusing or informative. 

[disarcina]

I am fine with Sosh's statement -- some may think differently about 'the MVP from a contender" stance -- but that' s been his position and he's not going to change it now just because the position goes against his guy's chances.

I think Sosh is being consistent - and GEEZ, we all know he's a formula guy who sticks with the formula.

I'm OK with Sosh's statement and stand --- I also think the MVP should come from a contender -- but there are EXCEPTIONS -- the main one being -- EXCEPTIONAL stats that are far and above the other MVP candidates - regardless of position in the standings.

 

[NrM]

51 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Was it? Maybe it happened multiple years. It's hard to win an MVP when you aren't getting the hometown vote, though in 2014 there wasn't much competition if I remember.

I think i actually misread your post. Forget i said anything.

[Ohtaniland]

1 hour ago, disarcina said:

I am fine with Sosh's statement -- some may think differently about 'the MVP from a contender" stance -- but that' s been his position and he's not going to change it now just because the position goes against his guy's chances.

I think Sosh is being consistent - and GEEZ, we all know he's a formula guy who sticks with the formula.

I'm OK with Sosh's statement and stand --- I also think the MVP should come from a contender -- but there are EXCEPTIONS -- the main one being -- EXCEPTIONAL stats that are far and above the other MVP candidates - regardless of position in the standings.

 

Yes like triple crown type numbers.

[ten ocho recon scout]

3 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Wasn't 2012 the year Cabrera won the the triple Crown? Pretty hard to not give it to a player with that type of season regardless of where his team finishes.

Not to kick off this old debate again, but disagree. The only thing mcab had over trout that year was home runs, but he also had a month head start and a better park to hit in (trout had the better ops+). Cabrerra beat him in avg, trout beat mcab in obp. Mcab beat him in rbi, trout won in runs (keep in mind mcab batted 3rd and trout batted leadoff, so that one went about as youd expect).

So the question becomes, do 14 more home runs negate far better baserunning (49 stolen bases with only like 3 times caught). Do the 14 home runs negate tbe vastly superior defense? 

Legitimately, rhe only reason it was mcab and not trout that year is because old school types still dominate the vote, and with mcab winning the triple crown, there was no way they would vote "sabr" over a sacred cow title.

In regards to rhe triple crown, i think everyone generally accepts today that obp is a better grade than avg. And i think we can safely argue a run scored is the same as one driven in. So basically, in 3 categories, trout took one, cabrerra took one (hrs) and one was a wash (rbi to runs). The tiebreaker should have been plus plus defense in center compared to poor defense at 3B. And plus plus baserunning to liability once hes on base.

Cabrerra is a beast and had a hell of a year. Trout was the better player that year though. I think years down the road more people will realize that, as sabr becomes more the norm.

[Glen]

I bet Sosh doesn't even stand for the national anthem. 

[m0nkey]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

Nor are you amusing or informative. 

This can go to about 93% of the posters here

[disarcina]

Miguel Cabrera did win the triple crown that year and topped the MVP balloting because of it.

IMO, it was a toss up between Cabrera and Trout that year -- I still think if Trout would have gotten that 50th stolen base (I remember when he got tossed out at second in the last series of the year, against Texas, I think - can't remember -- do remember him getting tossed out -- might have been second to last game of the season)......if would have gotten that 'magic' stat of 50 demonstrating stat wise (that's all some folks see) that he was/ is a legitimate FIVE tool player and TOPS in the GAME in each category --the vote would have been closer.

Hard to argue against Cabrera winning the MVP that year with the triple crown stuff -- but IMO, Trout was the better player that season and the most valuable......should have gotten MVP/ ROY combo --

On Dodgers/Cubs broadcast on TBS they are / were touting Corey Seager as a ROY/ MVP candidate in the NL -- I don't see how Seager tops Daniel Murphy from the Nats for MVP.....but Seager seems a lock for ROY......If Seager does get the combo -- it means someone less deserving than Trout's ROY performance would win the combo awards.

[Oz27]

2 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

A thousand years ago some ignorant baseball writer determined that RBIs were more important than runs scored, and that batting average was the best measure of hitting, and, has been the truth since the beginning of time, that chicks dig the long ball. Somewhere between then and now we invented college and mathematics and we were able to prove that Trout was closer to being twice the player Cabrerra was, than Cabrerra was to being even as good as Trout.

Some sports writers working for their archaic newspapers were using quirky stat lines to say Cabrerra was the MVP, where as others were using quirky stat lines to say that Trout was amongst the greatest of all time. 

This is my favorite explanation of anything, ever. Bravo.

Some of the arguments people come up with to claim Trout shouldn't be MVP, or should not have been in 2012, 2013 or 2015, really defy logic.

[Tank]

I agree with sosh's statement. I think a big part of valuable is your impact on your team. Not 100% of the time, but it should be factored in.

long ago Hank Greenberg won the MVP and decided to ask for a raise. The Tigers were dead last that year. He approached the owner about his desire for a pay raise, to which the owner notoriously said, "we finished in last place with you. We can certainly finish in last place without you." 

The Aaron Award recognizes the player who had the best year. It doesn't have as much value to the public as the MVP, but it should. And Trout should pretty much win it until he retires.

[bloodbrother]

24 minutes ago, ANAHEIMBOB said:

Trout is by far the best player on the Angels, but Albert has been a better clutch hitter this year. 

Runners on - Trout .950 OPS, Pujols .912

RISP - Trout .970 OPS, Pujols .949

RISP w/2 outs - Trout .858 OPS, Pujols .724

Bases loaded - Trout 1.266 OPS, Pujols .840

Men on, 2 outs - Trout .872 OPS, Pujols .816

Man on 3rd, < 2 outs - Trout 1.166 OPS, Pujols 1.018

High leverage situations - Trout 1.104 OPS, Pujols 1.085

Both have been tremendous with runners on base obviously, but I don't see where Pujols has been more clutch

[Oz27]

1 minute ago, bloodbrother said:

Runners on - Trout .950 OPS, Pujols .912

RISP - Trout .970 OPS, Pujols .949

RISP w/2 outs - Trout .858 OPS, Pujols .724

Bases loaded - Trout 1.266 OPS, Pujols .840

Men on, 2 outs - Trout .872 OPS, Pujols .816

Man on 3rd, < 2 outs - Trout 1.166 OPS, Pujols 1.018

Both have been tremendous with runners on base obviously, but I don't see where Pujols has been more clutch

But Pujols has more RBI and that's what matters, right?

[bloodbrother]

It's very nice to have the guy with the highest OBP% in the AL hitting directly in front of him

[Angel Oracle]

2 hours ago, Glen said:

I bet Sosh doesn't even stand for the national anthem. 

LOL

He leaves that for Cole Kaepernick.

[Tank]

2 hours ago, ANAHEIMBOB said:

What about Mike Butcher. 

 

As if there was any doubt that both of them already suck.

[Troll Daddy]

3 hours ago, bloodbrother said:

It's very nice to have the guy with the highest OBP% in the AL hitting directly in front of him

It's also equally nice to have one of the most feared hitters in baseball hitting behind you. 

[stormngt]

5 hours ago, Glen said:

I bet Sosh doesn't even stand for the national anthem. 

I bet 70% of the people reading this believes you. 

[ScottT]

Lol.

What a phone camera hero that guy is.  

[ten ocho recon scout]

4 hours ago, Tank said:

As if there was any doubt that both of them already suck.

God i love you, tank

[bloodbrother]

3 hours ago, stormngt said:

I bet 70% of the people reading this believes you. 

He's too fat to stand, obviously

[FabulousFabregas]

Fat Man's too busy lobbying for the creation of a CERA-VP for Mathis.

[Blarg]

@ten ocho recon scout your statement In regards to rhe triple crown, i think everyone generally accepts today that obp is a better grade than avg.  These are one of those false arguments tossed out there as a generalization that loses a lot of meaning when you are talking about elite hitters rather than the table setters. When you have a Trout or McCab you don't say, hey both would be more productive if you traded 30 points of batting average and increase their OBP by that total plus X. It works against their productivity both as a run producer and runs scored. 

The OBP argument is more valid to lower level players that you measure if a .270 hitter with a .320 OBP is more productive in the lineup than a .240 hitter with a .360 OBP and even at that you have to determine what kind of hits are being produced by either player and is that the best you can expect from that player regardless of other talents like base running.

These large sabermetric nets thrown are simpleton arguments where you make the lazy assumption that one statement can cover a wide range of conditions. It is as bad as saying batting average is the most important stat by just replacing that with on base percentage.

 

[Dick B Back]

All I know is I wish the Halos had players capable of winning the triple crown (besides Trout).

[beatlesrule]

Most Valuable Player.  I don't agree with Scioscia about playoff teams only having them. Any team can.  This year though, I don't think it's Trout. He should finish top 3 but he's not the MVP.

[Lou]

1 hour ago, Dick B Back said:

All I know is I wish the Halos had players capable of winning the triple crown (besides Trout).

how many teams have more than one?