Hamilton placed on unconditional release waivers.

[Angelsjunky]

1 hour ago, beatlesrule said:

Was there anyone here that liked the signing and defended it?  I was vocal about wanting Torii back and not wanting Hamilton.  I have to think that most of the fanbase did not want Hamilton here.

I think the usual nutswingers liked it, and most of us tried to be optimistic. But considering that at the time the Angels needed pitching far more, and the fact that they didn't seem to even try for re-signing Greinke, it was a real head-scratcher, the third and worst in Arte's trifecta of Big Belly Flops: Wells, Pujols, Hamilton.

If I remember correctly, part of their justification for not signing Torii was because of the need for pitching. Then Arte went out and spent one-eighth of a billion dollars on a junky outfielder.

[Stradling]

24 minutes ago, m0nkey said:

I know I wanted to keep Greinke instead. Of course that probably wasn't going to happen

I'm pretty sure Greinke signed with the Dodgers before we signed Josh. 

[beatlesrule]

59 minutes ago, Oz27 said:

I was on the fence about it. It was time to move on from Torii, he declined pretty rapidly. I was concerned when I first heard about Hamilton but there was a little excitement too. I figured, to get to that point, the Angels must have done some serious due diligence to convince themselves it was okay. I guess I gave us too much credit.

Look at his numbers in Detriot. I'd hardly call that declining rapidly.

[Oz27]

4 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

Look at his numbers in Detriot. I'd hardly call that declining rapidly.

2.2 WAR in 2013, 0.5 WAR in 2014, -0.8 WAR in 2015. He was a defensive liability by then and should not have been playing the field.

[beatlesrule]

Way better than Hamilton and way cheaper.

[Oz27]

5 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

Way better than Hamilton and way cheaper.

They weren't the only two options, you know? 'Neither of them' was the right path to go down.

[ukyah]

28 minutes ago, Oz27 said:

2.2 WAR in 2013, 0.5 WAR in 2014, -0.8 WAR in 2015. He was a defensive liability by then and should not have been playing the field.

WAR is an extremely flawed stat and i'm not sure why that hasn't been exposed yet.

[Tank]

3 hours ago, Stradling said:

Salary cap won't help.  Unless of course they have the "bird" rule.

well, i'd wager most here would love to give hamilton the bird.

[Oz27]

19 minutes ago, ukyah said:

WAR is an extremely flawed stat and i'm not sure why that hasn't been exposed yet.

Care to explain what you mean?

[ukyah]

35 minutes ago, Oz27 said:

Care to explain what you mean?

 

it's a big topic, but i'll give a summation.

WAR derives it's valuations from three sources offense, baserunning and defense.

advanced offensive metrics have proven to be pretty darn accurate, and pass the smell test. meaning, the best offensive players in the game tend to be found at the top of the advanced offensive metrics also.

baserunning is pretty clear, but less so than pure offense.

the problem is defense. advanced stats are not capturing a fair value for defense. WAR is based on fractions and there's a conversion problem with the WAR formula. WAR numbers get all out of whack when a player is either exceptionally good or poor at fielding.

i'm not saying throw the baby out with the bath water, but WAR needs a major overhaul, but that's not possible until defensive metrics become reliable, and if they didn't consider defense at all then they may as well call it by a different name.

[ScruffytheJanitor]

I'll admit it: I had hopes for the Hamilton signing. I will say, though, that given his lack of interest on the market and his history, I thought they should have offered three years + options, not a full five-years. I thought he'd be great the first year. 

[arch stanton]

He's a professional excuse maker. No reason to believe he'd ever do anything worthwhile after being handed 9 figures guaranteed. Except of course, make excuses.

[CaliAngel]

15 hours ago, arch stanton said:

He's a professional excuse maker.

Holy crap this is so accurate. I hope you don't mind but I'm going to be using this pretty much any time someone refers to Hambone from now on.

[disarcina]

no Monday Morning quarterbacking stuff here -- to a poster on this board -  I don't think ANYONE liked the signing even if they thought getting Hamilton was OK -- everyone thought the contract was too much for too long for a player with a damaged history who would be unlikely able to handle long term security.

Hamilton was a one year at a time guy, maybe an option and then with incentives.

Also, many folks here -- include me in -- felt the Halos betrayed a great Halo who remains a favorite to this day - Torii Hunter --- by letting Hunter go (which many here understood - hey it's a business -- but then signing Hamilton to that huge contract when there was 'no money' ?? HUH?  That combo rankled many -- we should have kept Hunter at a quarter of Hamilton's price tag.......

and folks here said that then only to proven correct over time.

I still think Hamilton's AB's in that playoff sweep of us by KC were some of the worst ABs I've ever seen........just truly a horrendous performance by a guy who looked like he wasn't even trying........a guy who should not have been on the playoff roster let alone in the starting line up --- really, beyond the signing of Hamilton it was that series with the Hamilton non-effort that was sort of the start of the downhill slide to where we are today..........

Pujols signing? Different story --many were excited about it-- including me - contract a bit long, back side 5 years going to be sort of tough - but other than the poor start he had -- he's put up decent numbers and there's no doubt he hustles his tail off every AB, every game......unfortunately he's sort of Mr. GIDP at this point.

[RyanExpress30]

On 08/23/2016 at 5:06 PM, Stradling said:

May I introduce you to the Oakland A's.  

Playoff appearences since the year 2000

Angels=7

Oakland=8

You were saying?

A better question....which of the two makes the next one?

[Lou]

9 hours ago, RyanExpress30 said:

Playoff appearences since the year 2000

Angels=7

Oakland=8

You were saying?

A better question....which of the two makes the next one?

Playoff appearances since the year 2004

Angels = 6

A's = 3

[yk9001]

10 hours ago, disarcina said:

I still think Hamilton's AB's in that playoff sweep of us by KC were some of the worst ABs I've ever seen........just truly a horrendous performance by a guy who looked like he wasn't even trying........a guy who should not have been on the playoff roster let alone in the starting line up --- really, beyond the signing of Hamilton it was that series with the Hamilton non-effort that was sort of the start of the downhill slide to where we are today..........

 

To this day, it is unfathomable what we watched those three nights.

 

And yet, there were people here defending him.

Nutswinging is a powerful drug.

[ksangel]

Angels sign him and have Rotten Tomato night to celebrate his return.

[m0nkey]

5 hours ago, Lou said:

Playoff appearances since the year 2004

Angels = 6

A's = 3

Playoff appearances since the year 2015:

Angels = 0

A's = 0

[Stradling]

9 hours ago, yk9001 said:

To this day, it is unfathomable what we watched those three nights.

 

And yet, there were people here defending him.

Nutswinging is a powerful drug.

Where I'll readily admit Hamilton shouldn't have even been on the post season roster, we did not lose the series solely because of Hamilton or Scioscia, but rather every hitter not named Calhoun, which of course includes Hamilton.  It also includes Trout and Albert and Howie.  Dipoto deserves some blame for Hamilton being on the roster.  

[Troll Daddy]

40 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Where I'll readily admit Hamilton shouldn't have even been on the post season roster, we did not lose the series solely because of Hamilton or Scioscia, but rather every hitter not named Calhoun, which of course includes Hamilton.  It also includes Trout and Albert and Howie.  Dipoto deserves some blame for Hamilton being on the roster.  

Now that we know the outcome ... I agree

[Stradling]

Well it's tough to blame someone before it happens.  

[disarcina]

not sure if Hamilton's listless performance LOST the series for us -- but it certainly didn't inspire anyone to play better and most likely did just the opposite putting a malaise funk over the Halos.

KC out-played us, out-hustled us on the basepaths, stealing bases, pitching and defense..........and their offense scored enough runs to beat our listless effort.

I trace the Halos slide to mediocrity to that series --it's been pretty down hill since.

other clubs (AL especially) seemed to learn from the KC example and started playing more like a traditional NL team -- pitching, speed, defense.

meanwhile our formula guy behind the bench (Sosh) an old NL traditionalist himself -- can't seem to go old school.........amazing.

Unless we're talking about Willie Davis' three errors in an inning World Series against Baltimore back in 1966 -- I don't think I've seen a player have a worse performance in a post-season game than Hamilton......and even then, at least the Three Dog Willie Davis was hustling and trying.

Hamilton seemed zoned out.

 

 

[Docwaukee]

I know WAR is imperfect, but it does a decent job.  I agree that the defensive metric portion leaves a bit to be desired, but how do you overhaul it when you don't have any other defensive metrics to improve it.  Anyway, there are outliers, but by and large it's better than most stats as proven by regression analysis.  

Here is something fun.  

If you don't include Trout playing some LF here and there, the highest WAR total from a Halo playing LF in any given season is GA's 2.1 WAR in 2007.  Otherwise, there isn't a player with a WAR above 2 since.  

Here's another fun one.  Since 2012, the total WAR from LFers not named Trout is 1.6 WAR.  That's over 5 seasons.  Trout has 4.9 WAR as a LFer in about 1/2 a seasons worth of PA during that time.  If you subtract out Trout's plate appearances, that's an average of 0.3 WAR per season for the last 4.5 seasons.  Since 2012, the highest total by any one player is Hamilton's 0.8 in 2014.  

Since 2012, the Halos have the 2nd highest total team WAR for Off/Def/Bsr  of 126.5.  Only 1.6 of which has come from LF.  That's pretty damn amazing.  

[Vegas Halo Fan]

We ought to claim Hamilton off waivers. What could they do, make us pay the rest of his contract?