So What's the Plan for 2017?

[Troll Daddy]

4 minutes ago, Oz27 said:

Escobar ranks 32nd in MLB in OBP, behind Villar and Carpenter. Good job.

I'm talking lead off hitters ... get with the program.

[Oz27]

Just now, Troll Daddy said:

I'm talking lead off hitters ... get with the program.

Cool, so he still ranks behind two of the guys mentioned and is a vastly worse all-round player than any of them.

[greginpsca]

1 minute ago, totdprods said:

No, that only applies to folks not on the 40-man.

Thanks. Now if the remove him from the 40 man roster, he can be a free agent?

 

[Troll Daddy]

4 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Yes you said exactly that.

Don't remember using the word easily ... no worries 

[totdprods]

1 minute ago, greginpsca said:

Thanks. Now if the remove him from the 40 man roster, he can be a free agent?

 

He'd be DFAed, and up for waiver claim by other teams - I would think someone would claim him, considering a lesser player in Kubitza was claimed twice on waivers already this year.

If he were to get through somehow, I'm not sure if he'd be eligible for minor league free agency or not, but I don't see the Angels bumping him from the 40.

[Troll Daddy]

10 minutes ago, Oz27 said:

Cool, so he still ranks behind two of the guys mentioned and is a vastly worse all-round player than any of them.

I appreciate you trolling me ... I consider it a honor coming from a guy who wants to rebuild the team . 

good luck with that thought 

 

[Oz27]

1 minute ago, Troll Daddy said:

I appreciate you trolling me ... I consider it a honor coming from a guy who wants to rebuild the team . 

good luck with that thought 

 

lol. Never change TD, the world really needs someone who comes into legitimate discussions on a baseball message board and ruins them with their ridiculous trolling. You're my hero.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

1 hour ago, hangin n wangin said:

Jonathon Villar. Matt Carpenter. Ian Kinsler. Logan Forsythe. Carlos Santana.

I know you haven't heard of them. But these are real people. They exist.

Escobar is a good to very good hitter and that's all. He can't field, he can't throw accurately, he isn't a smart base runner, he has no power. He is on the wrong side of 30, he will make some team a good DH. If we can't trade him for a couple of very good prospects, I suspect he will be here for 1 more year, maybe 1/2 year, if we can trade him in late July. He is going to be a free agent in 1 more year and I don't see us resigning him after that.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

1 hour ago, CALZONE said:

Nailed it there!

If I had a boat like that I would give up baseball.

[totdprods]

I'm in the camp that is totally fine keeping Escobar (I imagine he will be moved by the deadline regardless of the return unless we are somehow in a playoff race) but also wouldn't be disappointed if he was moved before then.

Even with all of his flaws, he gives us a much needed lead-off hitter, and there is absolutely no one on the roster capable of filling that role right now.

Even if we see 2017 as a year to write off, you don't sabotage the team's roles and needs for the sake of just making a deal and risk stunting the development of others in the lineup because they start to press being in an unfamiliar role or constantly flop around in the order. Even if we fans think next year's team is effed, the guys on the club don't think that. They go out each day and try to win. Provide that young core that we want to develop some stability so they can grow into their roles.

[Troll Daddy]

^^^^

good post 

[ettin]

This is really crazy but I have been agreeing a LOT with Troll Daddy lately and I agree that if the right free agent signings take place the Angels will have a shot at 2017, particularly more if Richards comes back with some semblance of good health. But it will require a certain string of events to happen and specific free agent signings to occur to make that a reality in my opinion.

TD is not as off base as he seems. He makes comments that are super troll but the idea that we can compete and potentially win in 2017 isn't a wild concept.

[Angel Oracle]

17 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I'm in the camp that is totally fine keeping Escobar (I imagine he will be moved by the deadline regardless of the return unless we are somehow in a playoff race) but also wouldn't be disappointed if he was moved before then.

Even with all of his flaws, he gives us a much needed lead-off hitter, and there is absolutely no one on the roster capable of filling that role right now.

Even if we see 2017 as a year to write off, you don't sabotage the team's roles and needs for the sake of just making a deal and risk stunting the development of others in the lineup because they start to press being in an unfamiliar role or constantly flop around in the order. Even if we fans think next year's team is effed, the guys on the club don't think that. They go out each day and try to win. Provide that young core that we want to develop some stability so they can grow into their roles.

Partly understandable, but he is a FA after 2017.   I sure as heck don't want to offer a QO after 2017, because he assuredly would accept it.

Seems that trading him in this off-season is the best way to go.

[Ohtaniland]

I'm gonna party like its 1999. 

70-92

[totdprods]

6 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Partly understandable, but he is a FA after 2017.   I sure as heck don't want to offer a QO after 2017, because he assuredly would accept it.

Seems that trading him in this off-season is the best way to go.

I have zero interest in keeping Escobar after 2017. By then, it's time to hand it off to Cowart, Marte, or get someone else. 
There's two major variables you have to consider in regards to dealing Escobar this offseason though - 1) who hits leadoff? and 2) will there be a market for him? 

As I mentioned earlier, there's a dearth of players like Escobar in this year's FA class. Prado, Turner, Valbuena, Freese, Walker. We already saw how little trade interest there was in him this past deadline, so why would we get any good offers this winter when there's a half dozen comparable FA's available? The only way we get a good offer is if one team out there zeros in on Escobar as an ideal lead-off candidate who they want to acquire quickly so they don't have to get into bidding war hell over the mentioned players. 

Second, as was touched upon in my last post, trading Escobar creates a hole at lead-off. Marte and Cowart will not fill that role. Who will? Our only viable candidates right now are Calhoun, Simmons, Giavotella, and that's about it. Ortega? And yes, I'm aware we could acquire one still. So, touching again on my last post, do you risk changing roles in the line-up just because you have Cowart able to take over at third? Simmons is having a key year in his offensive development - do you risk him regressing by trying to force him to become a lead-off hitter? We tried that before with Aybar when Figgins left, and it failed hard. Do we move Calhoun back into lead-off? Yeah, we could, and I suppose that's the best current solution, but now we're shortening our line-up even further, with Pujols back as our #3 and Cron in clean-up. Will Cron continue to develop offensively if he has a .245 hitting Pujols in front of him, making Cron lead off the second more often? 

From what I've observed, Calhoun seems to do really well hitting second with Escobar almost always on base in front of him. There's probably a way to look up what Kole's numbers are with just Escobar on in front of him, and I'd bet they're pretty good. We've seen Kole go through periods where he presses too much, loses patience, swings too hard. If we didn't have a .300 hitting, .350+ OBP Escobar batting lead-off, would it make Kole start to swing away again, to the point where he's striking out 164 times with a .308 OBP like last year? That begins to kill Calhoun's value  and we can all agree that we either need Kole to remain a viable offensive component or to become a valuable trade chip within a year or two.

 

[totdprods]

21 minutes ago, hangin n wangin said:

And it's perfectly fine to be in the camp that doesn't mind keeping Escobar. But when you're in the camp that calls Escobar the second best lead off hitter in baseball,behind Blackmon, you're in the wrong camp. Because that means you're fucking nuts.

I personally think that whole back and forth was a total waste of time. He isn't the second best lead-off hitter in baseball, but he is the best lead-off hitter we've had in half a decade, and he has been an immensely important offensive piece to the team this year, and I think we would create added pressure on everyone (which we don't need) if we were to deal him just for the sake of dealing him, or just because Kaleb Cowart exists. Furthermore, our farm isn't in a position where we should trade assets just for the sake of it. 

Take offers on Yunel this offseason, keep him available all year next season, and if someone steps in and gives you what you need, move him if it makes sense with the current roster construction. If the deadline hits and you haven't gotten anything, then yeah, eff it, at that point, just cash him in Joe Smith style, take what you can get, and give lead-off to whomever we feel needs to get a handle on it before '18.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

Overheard, in the GM office at Angel Stadium....

[Second Base]

Speaking of cashing in, what a freakin' steal we got by trading Joe Smith. He sucks, then gets hurt and we got Jesus Castillo from a farm system so overloaded they didn't realize they had value in this kid. He looks fantastic. Its like bumping into Mila Kunis backstage at a Miss America competition. Everyone is so focused on the potential of these 6'0 blond models that they forget the tiny olive skinned brunette is the real prize.

Or bumping into Susan Sarandon at the DNC....

That last one was simply to incite a heated political debate wrapped around whether or not Susan Sarandon was ever hot.

[Angel Oracle]

We need for Sherman Johnson to come through as a rookie 2B in 2017, because he could be that leadoff hitter that makes Escobar expendable.

[totdprods]

33 minutes ago, ScottyA_MWAH said:

Speaking of cashing in, what a freakin' steal we got by trading Joe Smith. He sucks, then gets hurt and we got Jesus Castillo from a farm system so overloaded they didn't realize they had value in this kid. He looks fantastic. Its like bumping into Mila Kunis backstage at a Miss America competition. Everyone is so focused on the potential of these 6'0 blond models that they forget the tiny olive skinned brunette is the real prize.

Or bumping into Susan Sarandon at the DNC....

That last one was simply to incite a heated political debate wrapped around whether or not Susan Sarandon was ever hot.

Was just thinking about that too. Dealing with a loaded team like the Cubs, we may have actually gotten a pretty good prospect who was overlooked in a system that deep. 

[totdprods]

14 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

We need for Sherman Johnson to come through as a rookie 2B in 2017, because he could be that leadoff hitter that makes Escobar expendable.

Yes. Exactly. I think ideal scenario, Sherm plays well in SLC first half of '17, and then once Escobar is dealt, Sherm comes up and bumps Pennington (who I think is also deadline trade bait, and would have been gone this year had he not been hurt) or Petit from second and gets the second half as an audition.

[Second Base]

Sherm has to do a lot more than what he's done this year or last year. I understand OBP being more important than BA, and firmly believe. At the same time though, 26 years old, hitting just .230 with little or no power in one of the more hitter friendly parks is not giving me much confidence in Johnson. 

Right now, I don't see him being any more offensively proficient in Anaheim than Ji-Man Choi, and Choi is younger, stronger and just plain a better hitter.

My hope for Johnson growing into a utility role has been replaced by my hope that David Fletcher will. Fletcher is a tad quicker, much younger, a better defender gets on base and hits for better average than Johnson. He doesn't have Johnson's pop though.

[mulwin444]

1 hour ago, ScottyA_MWAH said:

Or bumping into Susan Sarandon at the DNC....

That last one was simply to incite a heated political debate wrapped around whether or not Susan Sarandon was ever hot.

If I can get access to a time machine, I'd totally hit that (in the 70's)

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

21 hours ago, mulwin444 said:

If I can get access to a time machine, I'd totally hit that (in the 70's)

I thought you were talking about Jackie from that 70s show.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

Tanaka had the same stem cell therapy that Richards has just gone through. He seems to being doing fine, for all of you doubters, of the treatment out there.