So What's the Plan for 2017?

[Troll Daddy]

Trading players who you can't replace next season isn't going to happen IMO.

Shoemaker Calhoun Simmons Escobar Trout Skaggs Pujols* Street* Nolasco*

* financial reasons 

Cron may get traded ...

 

 

 

[JAHV76]

How much payroll will they have not committed to other players with Weaver, Wilson and Smith coming off the books less the increase to Richards.  I think that should make $30M available for 2017? I would hope they upgrade the bullpen at minimum.

[Troll Daddy]

The Dodgers pulled a rabbit out of the hat when they signed Madea in the off season. Probably saved their season with that signing. 

Angels need to look hard at the international market. 

[ettin]

I've made some of my thoughts clear on this but Eppler has clearly stated the team will compete next season. I'm working on my Primer so I won't share every thought I have here (besides that will take up pages and pages probably) but I believe Eppler SHOULD spend some money on key players IF and ONLY IF they get a protected pick. If they don't have a protected pick then I think they are less likely to make additions that will cost them their first pick (which would be their 2nd pick if they have the protected 1st rounder).

I also think they will trade at least one player off of the regular roster and 1-2 others during the offseason but that is also tied to the draft pick situation.

[Second Base]

Eppler will be building a team with much of the same tactics he used this year. Arte will pocket the saving from Weaver and Wilson for when Calhoun and Richards hit free agency. Reports indicate they intend to round out the rotation with converted relievers. Leading the charge on that front is Chris O'Grady. The rotation figures to be Richards, Shoemaker, Skaggs, Nolasco and Meyer with Smith, McGowin, Oberholtzer and O'Grady rounding out the AAA depth.

Choi and Buss will be back on a minor league deal. Marte figures to provide depth at 1B, 3B and LF off the bench.

I think in LF they'll bring in either Saunders or Maybin on a very short deal. Second base will be between Gia, Petit and Pennington. Escobar is still at 3B and Cowart is still in AAA.

I just don't think we're a large market team anymore. Arte will drop the payroll back around 10th or 15th in the majors because he got burned on the Hamilton debacle.

[Docwaukee]

13 minutes ago, ScottyA_MWAH said:

Eppler will be building a team with much of the same tactics he used this year. Arte will pocket the saving from Weaver and Wilson for when Calhoun and Richards hit free agency. Reports indicate they intend to round out the rotation with converted relievers. Leading the charge on that front is Chris O'Grady. The rotation figures to be Richards, Shoemaker, Skaggs, Nolasco and Meyer with Smith, McGowin, Oberholtzer and O'Grady rounding out the AAA depth.

Choi and Buss will be back on a minor league deal. Marte figures to provide depth at 1B, 3B and LF off the bench.

I think in LF they'll bring in either Saunders or Maybin on a very short deal. Second base will be between Gia, Petit and Pennington. Escobar is still at 3B and Cowart is still in AAA.

I just don't think we're a large market team anymore. Arte will drop the payroll back around 10th or 15th in the majors because he got burned on the Hamilton debacle.

even though I know most of that is true, it's just so damn depressing.  

[mulwin444]

They have a solid core with Trout CF, Calhoun RF, Simmons SS, Cron 1B, Pujols DH, Escobar 3B and Bandy/Perez C.  Its an offense that score some runs.  Offensively, they really only need a LF and 2B.  Cowart can fill either cover 2B or 3B defensively depending on how they want to play Escobar and his tin glove and can't be any worse offensively than Giavotella/Pettit.  LF is still a black hole and I can see them giving a longer audition to both Choi/Marte since they can collectively also cover 1B, 3B, and OF.

The bigger question is pitchung.  We had all things go wrong this season so 17 will meet them somewhere in the middle.  Skaggs, Richards, and Meyer are young and talented but question marks...I think 2 of the 3 give us some good starts.  Shoemaker will give 3.85+ ERA 1.25 WHIP with some ups and downs.  Nolasco will be next year's Weaver, most likely replaced mid-season with Smith, or another AAA pitcher.  I could see a 1 year chance on a vet for depth but no pitcher should be getting a big contract next season. 

The BP will feature a hopefully healthy Street, Bedrosian and Guerra for sure.  Ramirez might be retained and Bailey will be given a shot as well.  Salas will hopefully be gone.  This is the area that Eppler could help the team leader by getting arms that shorten the game for the SPs.  

 

If everything goes right, they can compete legitimately for a 2nd wild card.  However, I think all moves will be made with an eye towards 18 when Hamilton is off the books and the free agent class is among the best it's been in years.  Things can turn around quickly -check 2013 to 2014 - and there are no powerhouses in the AL West.

[Second Base]

39 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

even though I know most of that is true, it's just so damn depressing.  

It's ok, 2019-2023 should be good for us. 

[AngelsFaninGA]

The offense will be fine, the starting pitching and bullpen will be dreadful. Richards will likely suffer a setback and miss most of next season and Meyer will likely spend most or all of next season in the minors to work through his control issues. So we're looking at a rotation of Shoe/Skaggs/Nolasco/Weaver or Wilson on a 1-year deal/free-agent garbage. Shoe will be fine, Skaggs is a question mark, and the other 3 guys will probably have a 5.25 ERA between them. No point in doling out huge money for Chapman on a team where he'll see maybe 20 save opps because the rotation and rest of the bullpen is so bad. 

[totdprods]

7 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Cespedes has preformed every where he has played, with the possible exception of Boston. He didn't much care much for Boston, anyway.

It's not so much that he wouldn't perform that I wouldn't consider him, it's more due to his age and frequent nagging injuries. I also think he's going to get a massive contract, and I'd be looking to spend a little less than what he's likely to make. I also feel we are already heavy with right handed power hitters - more interested in lefty bats who make good contact and don't strike out much.  

If we were a more stable franchise I would be more open to it, but just feel there's too many ways a Cespedes contract could go south. I'm looking for safer, 'boring' contracts this offseason - and I'm also looking to sign guys that would be easy to trade. Guys like Jon Jay.

Another reason I like Jay, he'd slot into the bottom third of our lineup right now (or he'd take #2 and move Calhoun back into the MOTO, but Kole seems like he's doing better at the top) but he would also give us an option at lead-off should we get an opportunity to trade Escobar.

I think he'd be affordable and check off several needs, all while being a perfect stopgap for a year or two until we develop or acquire another OF. Easily tradeable.

[totdprods]

7 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

The Dodgers pulled a rabbit out of the hat when they signed Madea in the off season. Probably saved their season with that signing. 

Angels need to look hard at the international market. 

If that Shohei Otani guy gets posted, I could see the Angels being involved.

[fan_since79]

10 hours ago, totdprods said:

 

1) Make a serious run at one of Josh Reddick, Jansen, Hellickson, Desmond, or Fowler. Reddick is the most appealing to me as he won't cost a pick, has success in the AL West, and badly fills a need - good left-handed hitter a player who can hit a baseball, defense, outfielder...

2) If the above doesn't happen, get one of Jon Jay, Rajai Davis, Michael Saunders, or Franklin Gutierrez for LF. Of these, I think Jay provides the best fit. Bottom line, we need to get LF addressed and get someone who will do better than a sub-.600 OPS be able to hit a baseball, be it Reddick or Rajai. 

3) If either of the above happen, weigh offers on Kole Calhoun, and if someone offers enough, pull the trigger and commit to signing two OFs players who can hit a baseball. 

 

 

 

I'm dialing down expectations here.

 

[eaterfan]

9 hours ago, mulwin444 said:

They have a solid core with Trout CF, Calhoun RF, Simmons SS, Cron 1B, Pujols DH, Escobar 3B and Bandy/Perez C.  Its an offense that score some runs.  Offensively, they really only need a LF and 2B.  Cowart can fill either cover 2B or 3B defensively depending on how they want to play Escobar and his tin glove and can't be any worse offensively than Giavotella/Pettit.  LF is still a black hole and I can see them giving a longer audition to both Choi/Marte since they can collectively also cover 1B, 3B, and OF.

The bigger question is pitchung.  We had all things go wrong this season so 17 will meet them somewhere in the middle.  Skaggs, Richards, and Meyer are young and talented but question marks...I think 2 of the 3 give us some good starts.  Shoemaker will give 3.85+ ERA 1.25 WHIP with some ups and downs.  Nolasco will be next year's Weaver, most likely replaced mid-season with Smith, or another AAA pitcher.  I could see a 1 year chance on a vet for depth but no pitcher should be getting a big contract next season. 

The BP will feature a hopefully healthy Street, Bedrosian and Guerra for sure.  Ramirez might be retained and Bailey will be given a shot as well.  Salas will hopefully be gone.  This is the area that Eppler could help the team leader by getting arms that shorten the game for the SPs.  

 

If everything goes right, they can compete legitimately for a 2nd wild card.  However, I think all moves will be made with an eye towards 18 when Hamilton is off the books and the free agent class is among the best it's been in years.  Things can turn around quickly -check 2013 to 2014 - and there are no powerhouses in the AL West.

So they just need 2 position players, 3 quality starting pitchers, and 2-3 great bullpen arms?

This team has 3 players who are above average position players. And maybe 2 SPs and one BP arm. Nearly every team in baseball has that. If Mike Trout goes down this team might be the worst in all of baseball.

[gotbeer]

10 hours ago, JAHV76 said:

How much payroll will they have not committed to other players with Weaver, Wilson and Smith coming off the books less the increase to Richards.  I think that should make $30M available for 2017? I would hope they upgrade the bullpen at minimum.

Looking at Cot's.  2017 we are at $100 million currently. 

But looking at arbitration.  Listing 2016 salary. 

• Richards A3(5) $6.425
• Calhoun A2(4) $3.4
• Robinson A3(5) ??
• Giavotella A1 .532
• Shoemaker A1 .530
• Morin A1(super 2?)
• Rasmus A1 $.514

Total $11.4 million.  Just guessing, with Calhoun and Shoemaker, I can see it getting to $20 million in arbitration.  So for 14 people, we should be around $120, and have around $40 million to play with to probably find around 7 players. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

13 hours ago, Dochalo said:

So I think there are three different directions we can go:

1.  Do almost nothing.  Maybe add a couple of 1yr deals.  But pretty much just stand pat this off season and kick the can down the road

2.  Sell off more parts for younger talent.  Would you sell Calhoun?  Simmons? Shoe?  Escobar?  

3.  Buy.  Move some minor league parts to improve the rotation.  Sign Cespedes for LF.  Bring in a high end closer.  

This is what they need to do.

• Trade Escobar in the offseason for the best deal they can get.
• Bring up Cowart to play third with Marte as the offensive oriented backup
• Bring in a second basemen who can actually field his position well
• Fill out the rotation with the highest GB rate guys who we can find on the cheap
• Sign at least one of Jansen / Chapman, and at least one other reliable reliever
• By the start of the 2018 season make sure we have a left fielder with a legit bat.

Since we have so many holes in the pitching staff we really have no alternative than to focus on adding defensive oriented players to mask it. If we can get some strikeout throwers in the pen we can bring them in late to hopefully get out of the jams we inevitably will find ourselves in.

[AngelsLakersFan]

15 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

So they just need 2 position players, 3 quality starting pitchers, and 2-3 great bullpen arms?

This team has 3 players who are above average position players. And maybe 2 SPs and one BP arm. Nearly every team in baseball has that. If Mike Trout goes down this team might be the worst in all of baseball.

We probably shouldn't expect to win with any of these plans, but we have to be realistic about what the choices are.

A full rebuild means being the worst team in baseball, plus Mike Trout for the couple of seasons we have him before we trade him or he walks.

Anything less than that and we are hoping for a lot of things to break in our favor. No team should ever be in a position where they count on everything going well, but it's really unavoidable in the Angels position.

[Troll Daddy]

Why would they trade Escobar? Makes zero sense for many reasons. You can always trade him at the deadline. 

[Stradling]

10 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Why would they trade Escobar? Makes zero sense for many reasons. You can always trade him at the deadline. 

To improve your team in other areas.  If you sign a leadoff hitter, you might be able to trade him for either a 2nd baseman or a Tropeano type of starter.  Or if you can get two prospects that can be major leaguers then you make the move.  Cowart wins as many games with his glove as Escobar does with his bat.  Cowart isn't as one dimensional as Escobar, at least Cowart runs the bases at a high level and has a plus plus glove.

[Troll Daddy]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

To improve your team in other areas.  If you sign a leadoff hitter, you might be able to trade him for either a 2nd baseman or a Tropeano type of starter.  Or if you can get two prospects that can be major leaguers then you make the move.  Cowart wins as many games with his glove as Escobar does with his bat.  Cowart isn't as one dimensional as Escobar, at least Cowart runs the bases at a high level and has a plus plus glove.

'Cowart wins as many games with his glove as Escobar does with his bat'

WOW

F-

[Stradling]

TD, did you see the play that ended the game on Wednesday Night on the ball hit down the third base line?  That is a play that Escobar doesn't even come close to making.  You know who makes that play, Cowart.  He isn't quite Simmons defensively but he is as good with the glove as Escobar is with the bat and he can run bases, unlike Escobar.  Escobar has one skill set, hitting, not for power, but he gets on base.  

[Angel Oracle]

If ever there was a right time to add one good FA, this would be it as the protected pick is a very good likelihood.

Just be careful that it isn't a declining FA.    Need to play for 2017 and beyond.

Do not trade any MiLB pieces.

Trade Escobar for a solid reliever or decent LF who can lead off, if possible. 

Go full speed into Latin America the moment the two year moratorium is over.

[Troll Daddy]

27 minutes ago, Stradling said:

TD, did you see the play that ended the game on Wednesday Night on the ball hit down the third base line?  That is a play that Escobar doesn't even come close to making.  You know who makes that play, Cowart.  He isn't quite Simmons defensively but he is as good with the glove as Escobar is with the bat and he can run bases, unlike Escobar.  Escobar has one skill set, hitting, not for power, but he gets on base.  

I also saw Seager's play yesterday. 

There's the possibility that Escobar makes the play and Cowart doesn't ... I'll take what's real for now. Speculation can give you false hope.

Cowart has 8 errors in 65 games for the Salt Lake team. That's a .953 fielding percentage.

[Dick B Back]

1 hour ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

This is what they need to do.

• Trade Escobar in the offseason for the best deal they can get.
• Bring up Cowart to play third with Marte as the offensive oriented backup
• Bring in a second basemen who can actually field his position well
• Fill out the rotation with the highest GB rate guys who we can find on the cheap
• Sign at least one of Jansen / Chapman, and at least one other reliable reliever
• By the start of the 2018 season make sure we have a left fielder with a legit bat.

Since we have so many holes in the pitching staff we really have no alternative than to focus on adding defensive oriented players to mask it. If we can get some strikeout throwers in the pen we can bring them in late to hopefully get out of the jams we inevitably will find ourselves in.

I like your plan ALF, you are hired!

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

I also saw Seager's play yesterday. 

There's the possibility that Escobar makes the play and Cowart doesn't ... I'll take what's real for now. Speculation can give you false hope. 

What's real right now is Escobar has one very good skill set and one very bad skill set.  He also can't run the bases.  He also makes as many brain dead plays as Aybar. 

[Troll Daddy]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

What's real right now is Escobar has one very good skill set and one very bad skill set.  He also can't run the bases.  He also makes as many brain dead plays as Aybar. 

You have a hard on for Escobar ... and can't see past it.

i get it